Golem and UMD


Rules Questions


Quote:
GOLEM: Being mindless, golems do nothing without orders from their creators. They follow instructions explicitly and are incapable of complex strategy or tactics. A golem's creator can command it if the golem is within 60 feet and can see and hear its creator. If uncommanded, a golem usually follows its last instruction to the best of its ability, though if attacked it returns the attack. The creator can give the golem a simple command to govern its actions in his absence, or can order the golem to obey the commands of another, but the golem's creator can always resume control by commanding the golem to obey him alone.

Can I use the skill 'Use Magic Device' (maybe 'activate blindly') to command a golem as if I am it's creator?


I like the idea of treating a Golem as a magic device to be used and would probably allow a shot at it with an appropriately high DC, but I don't think the rules actually allow this.


No. Golems, despite being created with magical item feats are not magical items. They are creatures.


Golems are self-supporting creatures, not magic devices. They have things that magic devices don't, like Hit Dice, Movement Speeds, and Ability Scores.

The only textual differentiation I can think of is the one found in Antimagic Field.

Antimagic Field wrote:
A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting

The fact that it calls out the difference between a sword and a golem should note the difference between Magic Items/Devices and Golems.


Constructs are not magic devices. Although the idea is interesting. Normally I only allow my players to assume control of a capture golem if they: kill it's master, have an appropriately high knowledge/craft check, and spend significant time researching it. But that's purely houserule territory.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

IIRC there are spells and/or feats which allow one to attempt to wrest control of a golem from its creator. Unless I am misremembering, and it was only summoned critters.

Certainly UMD wouldn't be enough.

However, a clever DM might well integrate some mechanism for gaining control. Didn't Sam & Dean get control of a golem temporarily by obtaining the scroll with its true name? I seem to recall similar antics taking place in Ankh-Morpork.


Wheldrake wrote:

IIRC there are spells and/or feats which allow one to attempt to wrest control of a golem from its creator. Unless I am misremembering, and it was only summoned critters.

Certainly UMD wouldn't be enough.

However, a clever DM might well integrate some mechanism for gaining control. Didn't Sam & Dean get control of a golem temporarily by obtaining the scroll with its true name? I seem to recall similar antics taking place in Ankh-Morpork.

Nope. There is a spell for trying to take over someone's construct, but it does not work on golems(specific type of construct) because golems resist any spell with SR except specific exceptions.


Actually wraithstrike, Wheldrake is correct.

Control Construct

Note that the spell's entire function is to do just that, and it also doesn't allow for SR so a golem's immunity would not help.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

While the Control Construct spell doesn't call golems out specifically, some others like Apparent Master do. So I feel safe in saying that there do exist some magical means of taking control of another guy's golem in PF.

In literature, the notion of having, losing and taking control of a golem is an integral part of these stories. There is often some object in or near the location the golem is guarding which allows one to at least disactivate if not actually control the golem.

Such an object might even be on the golem itself, like the "shem" or magical inscription on a parchment placed into the golem's mouth to give it life and control it, in Jewish lore.


This makes me wonder in which category an ambulant Intelligent Magical Item falls.


So if I can't use UMD because it's a creature, does that mean I can make a BLUFF check?


The rules are quite unclear about how a golem knows who its master is. It could be a mystical connection, in which case it is pretty much unfoolable, or it could be just normal recognition, in which case a simple disguise check might work.

I'm on the fence myself, but I do think that if a golem is ordered to obey someone else, disguising yourself as that person would fool the golem, as I don't see any way that ordering it to obey someone would create the same sort of mystical connection that exists between a golem and its creator.


I would think a golem would base it's recognition on voice and not sight, due to the ordering it about aspect. Otherwise it wouldn't be able to accept commands from an invisible owner, or one that is hiding where he is. That's if the gm decides it's not some mystical connection.

That would mean disguise would be out. Now I would possibly allow perform(voice) or linguistics to fool it, or some spell that modifies it, but they would have to know the person very well to imitate them.


I have used the spell Control Construct and the Craft Construct Feat to permanently change the constructs program and Master. My GM liked the way I roll played it, so he allowed it.

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