I'm a level 3 Wizard on Rise of the Runelords, Opposition School > Enchantment Divination
STR 7 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 18 WIS 10 CHA 12 with Familiar Valet Archetype
I wanna do some serious crafting.
1 – Improved Initiative H-Additional Traits - Familiar Owl
3 – Craft Wondrous Items
5 – Craft Wands + No idea
7 – Persistent Spell > Should I take it? Is it OP?
9 – Craft Rod > Undecided, I'm not sure is worth considering high time required
10 – Craft Staves
11 – Staff Life Wand
Spells
1 - Mage Armor Grease Silent Image Vanish Enlarge Person Obs Mist Color Spray Adhesive Spittle
2- Glitterdust Invisibility
I want to play a Wizard that is not destroying encounters and it's an asset to the party.
I don't wanna use the most OP spells, so which ones should I avoid?
My party is
Oracle of Life > He will be only healing, not doing damage unless it's with summons
Ninja > All of his stats are 10, except DEX-CHA at 17
Slayer > Dual Wiel Sword+Shield
I need help knowing which spells I should get without breaking the game and what do you consider about my feats.
I know Staff Life Wand isn't optimal, but I like the concept and I'm trying to not break the game.
Well, you won't be 'breaking the game' for a long time as that is generally at least 5th level spells before that starts happening. Even then, most of the time you have to try, it isn't something that happens by accident.
I would suggest you and the oracle work out your tactics. Things will go best for your group is one of you (most likely, but not necessarily the Oracle) focuses on spells that enhance your damage dealers (this can include healing, but in general a few good buffs can prevent a fair amount of damage), while the other focuses on spells that weaken or slow down the enemy. You are both powerful casters, and both can do either job (and you probably will want a few spells ready for that) but each having a focus is pretty important, both for being effective and for everyone having fun and doing their own thing.
Similarly, with things like skills, especially knowledge skills or social skills, have each player have their own focus and make sure everyone will have a chance to shine in their own specialty. It sucks to be a ninja who has maxed out knowledge: local (for example) only to have the wizard come along and be way better.
If everyone has their job, and focuses on their job, you will be an effective team and everyone can have fun without feeling overshadowed.
Well I took 1 point in most of the Knowledge Skills because it makes sense.
But I'm planning on maxing Planes, Religion, Arcana and Dungeon probably.
Thing is I'm not sure the Oracle wants to buff the Party, so far all the Spells up to level 3 he has used were CLW.
He has never buffed with Shield of Faith, or others. He summoned twice I think.
I'm not sure if he'll start buffing eventually, but we'll see.
So far I just want to be sure I'm not picking spells that are kinda OP. Glitterdust seems kinda OP, negates invisibility and could possibly Blind.
Don't be the guy who says "Everything you can do I can do better with magic"
Every character is going to have "their thing". Don't step on that. Don't pick spells that steal the spotlight from your other party members.
Have your own thing and feel free to be great at it, and let the rest of the party be best at their things and you'll be fine
Don't be the guy who says "Everything you can do I can do better with magic"Every character is going to have "their thing". Don't step on that. Don't pick spells that steal the spotlight from your other party members.
Have your own thing and feel free to be great at it, and let the rest of the party be best at their things and you'll be fine
Well my idea is to disable the enemy without Saves (preferred) so the melee can kill stuff.
I don't really like the idea of picking fireball and stuff like that, but I will have to pick some damaging spells (I guess), but truth be told, have no idea which ones.For level 2 I'm taking Invisibility because it's an easy escape and I can "buff" either the ninja or slayer so they go ahead and scout.
I'm NOT using any sort of summons. They're great, but in all honestly, it's just too much hassle to keep track of them, slows gameplay and it's just annoying to use.
Thing is I'm not sure the Oracle wants to buff the Party, so far all the Spells up to level 3 he has used were CLW.
He has never buffed with Shield of Faith, or others. He summoned twice I think.
This would be why you should talk with him. Figure out what he wants to do and make sure between you, you have your bases covered.
Summon is a classic controller technique (although many use it less effectively as a means to directly do damage.) If the oracle wants to do battlefield control, then that is great, and you can take the support role.
Invisibility is a great buff for your sneak attacking friends. Enlarge can be too for combat oriented people, although if they are both DEX builds that might not be nearly as good. Eventually you will get haste which is pretty much the go to buff.
This would be why you should talk with him. Figure out what he wants to do and make sure between you, you have your bases covered.
Summon is a classic controller technique (although many use it less effectively as a means to directly do damage.) If the oracle wants to do battlefield control, then that is great, and you can take the support role.
Well, Oracle took an achievement feat, where he needs to heal 1000 HP with Spells to get them Maximized. So, it's more likely he's going to be healing and casting some Summon Monsters, but he's not optimizing for it.
Since I won't be Summoning, there won't be any overlapping on that. There are some thing I'll be not preparing probably like Protection from Evil or Resist Energies. I'll just have some scrolls for that in case I need them, but I'm expecting the oracle to take that role. Anyway I need to talk to him about it.So far he's not taking any Control spells, I've been using Grease/Color Spray/Glitterdust.
Considering we're level 3 now, I'm gonna start using Enlarge Person on our Slayer
Wizards are a bit on the op side as a rule, but in a very limited way. Wizards rarely go in all gung-ho, spells blazing, because they have limited resources at their disposal. If you pit a fighter against a wizard, the wizard will win, because he can pepper the fighter with spells, but if a wizard runs out of spells, they're pretty useless. Or, if they're in a situation in which they can't use magic, they can do very little. Because of this, a wizards a bit of a glass cannon. They either save their spells for a particularly tough encounter and flatten that enemy, but do very little during the other encounters, or they carefully conserve spells, using them sparingly in each encounter so that while they're fairly effective, but no more effective then the other party members. As this is the case, you shouldn't worry to much about being to overpowered. If this hasn't reassured you though, I just suggest you select a specific niche as a character that doesn't steal the spotlight all the time, like buffing, or control spells.
If he's level 3 and cast cure light and a summons it's pretty much all he knows to do. Can't blame him for not being level 4 yet.
No, you're right about that. So far he all into healing, so I'm not sure if he's going to take more crowd control spells, or even remove.
Point is, it's his first time playing a Caster, so he's learning spells on the go with some input from the party, but he's choosing on his own.
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I think you should widen your perspective on ways to play a wizard.
The way you're describing your wizard now is basically to "win" the game, by debuffing/controlling enemies into an inability to do anything at all, and fuelled by above-WBL gear due to crafting.
This is far from the only way to play an "effective enough" wizard. You want a wizard that earns his keep but is also fun for everyone.
I say: take it easy with the debuffing and control. Think about the GM. He has cool monsters with cool abilities. He wants to show them off, before you band together to mercilessly tear them apart. If you're all about debuffing, the enemy will sit blind, paralyzed and crying in a corner without ever getting a chance to show how cool his shtick is, and from your perspective, you didn't ever really get to see what was different about this guy as compared to the other dude from last week. Neither of them really got to do anything.
Don't take me the wrong way: debuffing and control are important, but don't overdo it. Instead, try to add more elements to your arsenal and do a bit of everything.
- Shape "your side" of the battlefield; with spells like Telekinetic Charge and Dimension Door you can get your allies in position to full attack on enemies first, rather than waiting for them to come to you. DimDoor your Slayer right next to the enemy wizard, past the wizard's bodyguards, and he'll love you for it. You can also use Illusions to create flanks for the Ninja, or to draw enemy AoOs so he can do stuff as he pleases. And two other classics: Haste, and Fly on your frontliners that enemies might otherwise avoid.
- Work on countering enemy actions, rather than preventing all of them outright. This is perhaps less optimal than shutting down an enemy, but it makes the game more fun because you actually get to see what enemies could do. And the GM gets to show off. Also, it's good to be good at this, in case you ever run into an enemy that you couldn't have shut down anyway. Damage control is something wizards can be pretty good at. a Metamagic Rod of Lesser Reach combined with Communal Protection from Evil, Align Weapon or Resist Energy is pretty nice and surprisingly affordable.
Well, Crafting Items is good early levels, but when items start costing a lot it will take time to craft them all.
Eventually we will have to buy some must have items right off the bat.
Do you think I'm taking too many crafting feats? My idea of taking Craft Wand was because I wanna go Staff like Wand and use wands everywhere lol. Sometimes you just need that extra damage that never fails (magic missile) or I wanna contribute without burning my best spells, or just have a wand of Dispel Magic in case I need it.
I will consider those spells like Telekinetic Charge, but I don't think Dim Door works like you said, because I'd have to travel along with the Slayer (unless I'm invisible).
REALLY loved the idea on Prot from Evil and the Rod, great options for combat buffing!
I'm gonna be checking what other spells I can learn that are cool and not combat ending.
Glitterdust is something I don't like, but when you face invisible creatures, there are not that many options.
Is there something like Benign Transportation from DnD 3.5? Where you basically switched places between an ally?
I'm trying to find spells to save myself from Grappel
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It's good to prepare 1-2 glitterdusts, especially against invisible enemies, it's horrible to prepare 5 to chain-blind everyone. Degree matters a lot.
Travelling along with DimDoor is annoying but worth it. And you can 'fix' it the same way you can fix Grapple: with the Shift power of the teleportation subschool.
I don't think you need Stafflike Wand to make good use of Magic Missile. 5d4+5 damage at level 11+ is not something you do as Plan A, it's more a Plan D kind of thing. It's good to prepare 1-2 magic missiles to snuff out fleeing enemies with few HP remaining, or interrupt a wizard that doesn't have Shield going. But compared to the damage your melee buddies will be doing, it really isn't worth that many feats.
It sounds like this is going to be one of your first long-term high-level wizards. In that case: rejoice. Wizard is a great class and relatively easy to "fix" mistakes in; just prepare different spells. Therefore I advise taking it easy with the stuff that really locks you into a super-specific strategy, and instead focusing on the "always works a bit" kind of feats. Improved Initiative for example is always good for a wizard.
Why don't you try being a blaster? It's fun as heck and just does damage and crowd control. https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=CF830C0FA4CEE8DE!489&ithint=f ile%2cpdf&app=WordPdf&authkey=!AA9Vz3wOw6b-VZQ here's an excellent guide to blasting as a wizard.
You can also try Shadow Evocation/Conjuration. VERY fun, not too overpowering, and really supports creativity over ripping planes apart or spamming a bunch of dire bears to do your work for you.
It's good to prepare 1-2 glitterdusts, especially against invisible enemies, it's horrible to prepare 5 to chain-blind everyone. Degree matters a lot.
Travelling along with DimDoor is annoying but worth it. And you can 'fix' it the same way you can fix Grapple: with the Shift power of the teleportation subschool.
I don't think you need Stafflike Wand to make good use of Magic Missile. 5d4+5 damage at level 11+ is not something you do as Plan A, it's more a Plan D kind of thing. It's good to prepare 1-2 magic missiles to snuff out fleeing enemies with few HP remaining, or interrupt a wizard that doesn't have Shield going. But compared to the damage your melee buddies will be doing, it really isn't worth that many feats.
It sounds like this is going to be one of your first long-term high-level wizards. In that case: rejoice. Wizard is a great class and relatively easy to "fix" mistakes in; just prepare different spells. Therefore I advise taking it easy with the stuff that really locks you into a super-specific strategy, and instead focusing on the "always works a bit" kind of feats. Improved Initiative for example is always good for a wizard.
The whole idea with Staff like wand is using not only Damage spells, but also utility. During my career I'm gonna craft wands that will become useful.
We're talking Invisibility, Vanish, Mage Armor, Shield, Prot from Evil, Adhesive Spittle, Unseen Servant, Fireball.Yes, wands will be expensive, but I could be spamming 50 Fireballs non stop if I wanted to, even though the damage is not superb, it will give me something to do.
From what I've been seeing, feats don't matter that much, it's all about the spells, so I'm taking things that will help the party (crafting items) and make me more versatile.
I can have a wand of Fly and many other things. By that level most level 1-4 spells won't be that good, but they will still have utility and damage
Well... we just are a game from finishing RotRL, and from what I can tell, unless your GM is going to give you more time in game, you won't have time to really craft a lot at all.
We were having a hard enough time just crafting things and upgrading the gear we found in the time allotted.
You're right. That's why I took Valet Familiar. With +5 to DC I can craft 2k in 4 hours, that's 4k in 8 hours (the maximum you can work)
4k a day when I have access to Rope Trick is more than enough to speed up Item creating even when adventuring. Yes, I need to work 8 uninterrupted, but if we rest on safe places I can do it. Eventually I can conjure Mansions and stuff like that.Valet Archetype can also deliver touch spells and move before and after delivering it, so I can use my familiar and it will still be safe.
Why don't you try being a blaster? It's fun as heck and just does damage and crowd control. https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=CF830C0FA4CEE8DE!489&ithint=f ile%2cpdf&app=WordPdf&authkey=!AA9Vz3wOw6b-VZQ here's an excellent guide to blasting as a wizard.
You can also try Shadow Evocation/Conjuration. VERY fun, not too overpowering, and really supports creativity over ripping planes apart or spamming a bunch of dire bears to do your work for you.
I suck at Blasters, usually I prefer support roles and such, that's why I'm doing a crafting wizard with CC and buffs.
Eventually I will try it, but in my mind I have big issues imagining a wizard like a blaster, I picture them more like Gandalf, with magic that help and confuses the enemy.If I die in this campaign I might go Sorcerer for pure blasting or something like that.
Here's a basic help thread for more specific advice though these guys aren't wrong.
Here's a basic help thread for more specific advice though these guys aren't wrong.
Really useful.
Got some ideas, like buffing with Invisibility the Oracle, so he can heal, channel and summon without any issues, or giving the Slayer +4 to STR with Bull's Strenght
Here's a basic help thread for more specific advice though these guys aren't wrong.Really useful.
Got some ideas, like buffing with Invisibility the Oracle, so he can heal, channel and summon without any issues, or giving the Slayer +4 to STR with Bull's Strenght
Sounds like you have it figured out. Coordinate spell selection with the party and you can never go wrong.
Buffing is always appreciated.
Teleportation tends to bug the GM more than the players...
In my experience, the biggest complaint about casters is when they take spells that make them better at stuff than classes dedicated to one thing e.g. using invisibility to replace the Rogue, using polymorph effects on themselves (form of Dragon etc) to replace Fighter in melee.
Take spells that do stuff the party CAN'T already do, fill in gaps where required.
Be a team player.
It's okay to have stuff like Fireball, it's not okay to spam it all the time... unless your group is okay with that.
I sometimes enjoy just playing the cheerleader for a super-caster, looting bodies mid-combat can be useful, especially if the fallen opponents had good gear... :D
We have 2 melee.
1 is Slayer with Sowrd+Shield, so his damage output is decent, not superb. The Ninja only deals damage when Sneak attacking, so I prefer to use my buffs on the Slayer.
My BIG concern is the fact that the Oracle is not doing damage, and I'm not sure if I should do damage or not.
If I'm not doing damage, I'm afraid we won't have enough firepower to kill mobs.
So far I don't have many choices for level 2, only glitterdust and invi, but I'll take something like Bull's Strength and other buffs, until I get access to Wands, I don't think I'll be able to pull out decent damage during fights.
But all the suggestion are awesome.
Teleportation tends to bug the GM more than the players...
In my experience, the biggest complaint about casters is when they take spells that make them better at stuff than classes dedicated to one thing e.g. using invisibility to replace the Rogue, using polymorph effects on themselves (form of Dragon etc) to replace Fighter in melee.
This is what I'm looking for! Teleports that will annoy GMs. I don't intend on taking the place of melee and such, but I will eventually need to do some damage, trying to figure out the best way to do it in case the party needs a little extra nudge on mobs.
Just so you can picture how many bad rolls we had: I'm the character with MOST crits on the party, using ACID SPLASH, yes, I've even beaten the Ninja's Wakizashi and the Slayer's Longsword.
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Two PCs with damage output should be enough actually. That's sort of the assumption that APs are said to be built for.
You say you prefer to buff the slayer because the ninja can't get sneak attack off reliably. Why don't you try to use spells to ensure that he can get it off reliably?
* move the ninja into position
* move monsters into position (hard)
* make it difficult for monsters to leave flanking position (much easier)
* use illusions to make monsters think they're flanked (should be good enough for a couple of rounds).
We have 2 melee.
1 is Slayer with Sowrd+Shield, so his damage output is decent, not superb. The Ninja only deals damage when Sneak attacking, so I prefer to use my buffs on the Slayer.
My BIG concern is the fact that the Oracle is not doing damage, and I'm not sure if I should do damage or not.
If I'm not doing damage, I'm afraid we won't have enough firepower to kill mobs.So far I don't have many choices for level 2, only glitterdust and invi, but I'll take something like Bull's Strength and other buffs, until I get access to Wands, I don't think I'll be able to pull out decent damage during fights.
But all the suggestion are awesome.
Teleportation tends to bug the GM more than the players...
In my experience, the biggest complaint about casters is when they take spells that make them better at stuff than classes dedicated to one thing e.g. using invisibility to replace the Rogue, using polymorph effects on themselves (form of Dragon etc) to replace Fighter in melee.
This is what I'm looking for! Teleports that will annoy GMs. I don't intend on taking the place of melee and such, but I will eventually need to do some damage, trying to figure out the best way to do it in case the party needs a little extra nudge on mobs.
Just so you can picture how many bad rolls we had: I'm the character with MOST crits on the party, using ACID SPLASH, yes, I've even beaten the Ninja's Wakizashi and the Slayer's Longsword.
I'm currently working on a level 2 build specializing in Ray of Frost, actually...
You can get the damage up to 1D3+4 with point blank/flask of ice component/Orc Bloodline (I'm going sorcerer) and favored class bonus Orc (you have to go crossblooded Orc/elemental, turn the ray into fire).
It doesn't sound like much, but it's a touch attack and pretty consistent damage. If your GM allows it, there is a trait that adds a point of force damage to spells as well...
Don't be afraid to take damaging spells, a good group will let you know when they want it cast... like artillery. Call in the strike when required. :D
Two PCs with damage output should be enough actually. That's sort of the assumption that APs are said to be built for.
You say you prefer to buff the slayer because the ninja can't get sneak attack off reliably. Why don't you try to use spells to ensure that he can get it off reliably?
* move the ninja into position
* move monsters into position (hard)
* make it difficult for monsters to leave flanking position (much easier)
* use illusions to make monsters think they're flanked (should be good enough for a couple of rounds).
No idea how to do this honestly. I can't move the ninja yet, there are no spell that allow this. At most I can cast something that gives movement (no idea what) or that gives + to Acrobatics checks.
So far the Ninja is not doing that high of a damage, so I'm focusing on the Slayer.
I could potentially make him Small, that's +2 to attack, and since he doesn't have positive STR might work too.
Moving monster can he hard, and on open spaces not much I can do, but I could use Grease/Create Pit for closed spaces to cut movement of the enemy.
Two PCs with damage output should be enough actually. That's sort of the assumption that APs are said to be built for.
You say you prefer to buff the slayer because the ninja can't get sneak attack off reliably. Why don't you try to use spells to ensure that he can get it off reliably?
* move the ninja into position
* move monsters into position (hard)
* make it difficult for monsters to leave flanking position (much easier)
* use illusions to make monsters think they're flanked (should be good enough for a couple of rounds).No idea how to do this honestly. I can't move the ninja yet, there are no spell that allow this. At most I can cast something that gives movement (no idea what) or that gives + to Acrobatics checks.
So far the Ninja is not doing that high of a damage, so I'm focusing on the Slayer.
I could potentially make him Small, that's +2 to attack, and since he doesn't have positive STR might work too.Moving monster can he hard, and on open spaces not much I can do, but I could use Grease/Create Pit for closed spaces to cut movement of the enemy.
Personal spell research is a thing that already exists.
Benign Transposition is worth looking at. :D There are other, similar spells along those lines as well (swapping two party members, swapping a monster and a party member etc).
Just talk to the GM, as custom spells are strictly up to him to allow/forbid.