This line is from the PFS rule book:
You are also permitted to spend your character’s gold to help a party member purchase spellcasting services such as raise dead or remove disease.
While this mentions spells such as Raise Dead, it is not under the section about helping to bring a character back from the dead. It is under the section about buying gear.
So... if the players all ask to pool money to buy Communal Darkvision, can they? In other words, how limited is that "such as" section of the quoted sentence? Due to the meaning of "such as," it can't be limited to just those 2 spells, and it probably can't even be limited to when a character dies or gets a condition, since the text isn't in the section on dying. But... is it limited anyway?
Another question. What if they pool money for Communal Resist Energy before they hit that dungeon? Do I start the countdown for it to expire basically in town? At the dungeon entrance?
(Also, if we say it starts in town, when the players say they'll pay the wizard 100 GP to walk to the dungeon entrance and cast it there, do I accept that bribe?)
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To answer the first question, yes they can pay to pool money for a spell. I have seen mid-level players buy a heroes' feast before a particularly fraught mission (Bonekeep).
However they cannot pay the wizard to go into the dungeon or even to walk to the dungeon entrance. See page 25 of the guide for more details but the relevant point is:
Please note that PCs may never purchase the traveling service of a spellcaster—in other words, a wizard from the local town is not, for any price, going to accompany the PCs on their mission into the nearby haunted castle.
The spellcaster won't travel with them, even to a place that "should" be safe (the entrance).
That is awesome Kevin, thanks! So if you allowed Heroes' Feast to be purchased before Bonekeep, then I have to assume they could pool for Darkvision, Resist Energy, etc. But the timer starts in town. So the spell is likely expired by the time they wander out to Bonekeep (well, maybe Bonekeep is a bad example because it involves teleporting or shifting to the dungeon instantly, if I remember correctly... but let's say it was some other module which involved an hour walk outside of town). Right?
What if they pay for teleportation as a spellcasting service? Could they get to the entrance with the effects still running? Or does the rule about the spellcaster "not traveling" prohibit purchasing teleportation spells?
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An instantaneous or limited-duration effect that doesn't change anyone's equipment should be fine.
No, that is over the line, and transfer of valuables between players, so you can get it done for your PC, but you can't share the cost of doing so between multiple PCs.
This thread is about what can be handled as a shareable cost among willing party members, in addition to the Raise Dead/Resurrection/True Resurrection and Remove Curse/Disease/Blindness Paralysis/etc. spells?
So, the various Remove spells, sometimes in a shared scroll for use during an adventure, if you think it might come up, like Remove Blindness. If the scroll isn't used, everyone gets half their gold back at the end of the adventure.
Sharing the expenses to get a party member raised buy whatever means are needed.
I would think it would be acceptable, as it wouldn't be exchanging valuables between PCs, for buying casts of spells (or scrolls) of multiple target spells for use during the adventure. Heroes' Feats, as mentioned. Communal Darkvision, Waterbreathing, etc.
Expenses for consumables that cannot be shared: First Aid Gloves. I would think, unless they were sold for half at the end, if there is any of the gems unused.
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That is awesome Kevin, thanks! So if you allowed Heroes' Feast to be purchased before Bonekeep, then I have to assume they could pool for Darkvision, Resist Energy, etc. But the timer starts in town. So the spell is likely expired by the time they wander out to Bonekeep (well, maybe Bonekeep is a bad example because it involves teleporting or shifting to the dungeon instantly, if I remember correctly... but let's say it was some other module which involved an hour walk outside of town). Right?
What if they pay for teleportation as a spellcasting service? Could they get to the entrance with the effects still running? Or does the rule about the spellcaster "not traveling" prohibit purchasing teleportation spells?
Correct. The timer starts when the spell is cast in town. This does require some amount of GM discretion. How long it takes to get from Absalom to one of the siege castles outside the city - or even between districts in Absalom - is not really defined, but it could take a while. For that reason I rarely see limited duration (non-instantaneous or permanent) spells of less than 1 hour/level bought. Heroes' feast - for instance - lasts 11 hours.
As several people have mentioned your best option is often to buy a scroll of the spell you want. (Communal darkvision in your first example.) You can't pool money for it but if one player is willing to pay for it any of the characters can use it.
Teleport is a very tricky case. It actually requires the caster to come with you to your destination. Because of that, the range limitation, and because if a failure happens the GM has to go totally off-script I actively discourage players from buying a teleport. I have allowed it before but only in certain circumstances. (Specifically the one I'm thinking of is when the party "bugged out" of a dangerous situation with word of recall and wanted to get back to their mission site quickly but couldn't cast teleport themselves. However even then it's very convoluted and I don't allow it if there isn't enough time left in the slot. See spoiler for more information.)
First of all there has to be enough time to make some rough estimates of distances between cities along the teleport route to determine how many castings they need.
In order to reduce the chance of an off-target or similar area result as much as possible I only allow them to travel with a spellcaster who is "very familiar" with the destination. The way I implement this is with a "hub and spoke" system similar to what airlines use. Getting from major city to major city is easy but to get from a minor city to another minor city you have to travel to a nearby major city first to find someone familiar with the destination.
For example: If players want to get from Escadar (a part of the nation of Absalom some 100 miles from Absalom proper) to Ipeq (a city 200 miles south of the Osirion capital of Sothis) it would require 3 teleports. A caster in Escadar who is very familiar with Absalom, a different caster in Absalom to take them to Sothis, and one in Sothis who is very familiar with Ipeq.
If you look at a map of the Inner Sea, Escadar to Ipeq is within the 900 miles a level 9 caster could travel. But I will rule that it is highly unlikely there is a caster in Escadar who is very familiar with Ipeq. Hence the need for the "connecting flights."
Also, if a town has less than 2,000 residents it wouldn't have anyone capable of casting teleport (unless specified otherwise).
Other GMs may allow a direct teleport, may not allow teleport to be bought at all, or may require a party to purchase the teleport twice (because the caster has to get back home somehow). It's very much a judgment call.
Hey everyone, I have one follow-up question. Based upon some forum posts by PFS leadership, it appears that PCs can use the "spellcasting services" section of the rules to get spells like Make Whole or Remove Curse at higher than minimum caster level. I guess leadership did this because otherwise some players just couldn't recover from certain effects.
However, does this extend to all spellcasting services? Can a player get a Darkvision spell at caster level 12, so as to extend the duration? If so, is there a cap? Like, is the cap level 11, since that's what PCs can "normally" reach in PFS? Or is the cap 20, since that's the hard limit in Pathfinder? Or does it copy the ruling on Make Whole, which stated that you could get it at "impossible" levels such as level 30 in order to repair +4 and +5 items?
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Additionally,
your faction may be able to aid you with certain issues as
well, so long as you have enough Prestige Points to spend
in exchange for their aid (see Fame and Prestige). Any
spellcasting purchased using Prestige Points is cast at
minimum caster level.
This limit doesn't appear to be there for spellcasting services purchased with gold. I would still say its a little iffy though for non condition removing spells, but it shouldn't be problematic because the effects won't leave the table of the DM that decides that they're allowed.
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Hey everyone, I have one follow-up question. Based upon some forum posts by PFS leadership, it appears that PCs can use the "spellcasting services" section of the rules to get spells like Make Whole or Remove Curse at higher than minimum caster level. I guess leadership did this because otherwise some players just couldn't recover from certain effects.
However, does this extend to all spellcasting services? Can a player get a Darkvision spell at caster level 12, so as to extend the duration? If so, is there a cap? Like, is the cap level 11, since that's what PCs can "normally" reach in PFS? Or is the cap 20, since that's the hard limit in Pathfinder? Or does it copy the ruling on Make Whole, which stated that you could get it at "impossible" levels such as level 30 in order to repair +4 and +5 items?
There does not seem to be an "official" answer to that, so expect table variation. Some GMs require the player (or GM) to roll to remove conditions if the spell requires it (see remove disease or remove curse). Others hand-wave that part. If the GM requires the roll, its often better to just pay for a higher level caster to ensure the condition is removed rather than waste money in a failed attempt.
its often better to just pay for a higher level caster
To me, the interesting part is that you think that's an option. I'll gleefully pay for a higher caster level, if that's allowed.
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That really shouldn't be an issue of table variation. Neutralise Poison, Remove Disease, Remove Curse and Break Enchantment are all very clear that they require a caster level check to remove. Nothing about buying spellcasting services, whether with PP or cash bypasses those requirements.
Perhaps not, but there are plenty of GMs that feel spending the money and not receiving an effective service would warrant a refund and thus another try. Under that premise, eventually the caster will succeed on the check. I'm not going to tell those GMs they are wrong.
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Something to note about spell casting services that is often forgotten...
This price assumes that you can go to the spellcaster and have the spell cast at her convenience (generally at least 24 hours later, so that the spellcaster has time to prepare the spell in question.
"Yes, I'd like to make an appointment for a spell casting? Do you have a 2 AM slot open? My employer likes to wake me up for early morning meetings on strange street corners and I want to be ready for it. Call it a hunch."
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Something to note about spell casting services that is often forgotten...
This price assumes that you can go to the spellcaster and have the spell cast at her convenience (generally at least 24 hours later, so that the spellcaster has time to prepare the spell in question.
presumably pathfinder lodges are a little more prepared with what you're going to need.
Osirion lodge:
"... why do you have 27 remove curses prepared today?"
"Do you remember the 7 rolls of toilet paper you passed in the hallway?
"Yeaaaah?
"That was the last expedition where I DIDN"T memorize 27 remove curses...
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presumably pathfinder lodges are a little more prepared with what you're going to need.Osirion lodge:
"... why do you have 27 remove curses prepared today?"
"Do you remember the 7 rolls of toilet paper you passed in the hallway?
"Yeaaaah?
"That was the last expedition where I DIDN"T memorize 27 remove curses...
Montezuma's Revenge. It's an extraplanar curse.
Something to note about spell casting services that is often forgotten...
This price assumes that you can go to the spellcaster and have the spell cast at her convenience (generally at least 24 hours later, so that the spellcaster has time to prepare the spell in question.
Pirate Rob, while that's true of the Core Rulebook, the PFS Guidebook offers our society's "house rules" including this additional layer of info, on page 25:
Generally speaking, you can pay to have spells cast on you at any time during the scenario so long as you’re in a settlement or have access to a temple, shrine, or wandering mystic.
How would you handle a player showing you that text?
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Generally speaking, you can pay to have spells cast on you at any time during the scenario so long as you’re in a settlement or have access to a temple, shrine, or wandering mystic.How would you handle a player showing you that text?
I would start by reading the whole paragraph to get the whole message instead of stopping halfway though.
Generally speaking, you can pay to have spells cast on you at any time during the scenario so long as you’re in a settlement or have access to a temple, shrine, or wandering mystic. Page 163 of the Core Rulebook covers the rules for purchasing spellcasting services and the associated costs are listed in the Spellcasting and Services table on page 159.
What I wouldn't do is worry about what spells the NPCs know/have in books, feel okay about morally etc.
You are somewhere where where you have access to people?
You can buy spell casting services at any caster level. Normal price involves a 24hr delay.
You want it faster? We have a role-playing opportunity where we get to explore the local setting further, likely aided by appropriate skill checks, and perhaps with a 10% surcharge.
I would start by reading the whole paragraph to get the whole message instead of stopping halfway though.
I'm not sure that getting the full paragraph added anything of value, since the 1st sentence seems to trump the extra sentence. However, I was indeed asking for your opinion, so I am very grateful that you gave it. I'll try to think about it. Thank you! And Merry Christmas!
(And see you on the 9th. We need more players!)
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ya know... if we all chip in I'm sure we can get someone to cast a Suggestion on a certain person with the initials of D.D. lol... "Night time is for sleeping and professionals give their team notice BEFORE things go critical". ROFL
So how much does a L20 Suggestion cost?
Could ALL the tables at a Special 'chip in' towards the cost since they're all part of the 'same event', in such a case?