Refluffing tolerance?


Pathfinder Society

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1/5

Auke Teeninga wrote:
By the way... Sending people to the stable is totally in season!

i just got it!

1/5 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
N N 959 wrote:
Auke Teeninga wrote:
By the way... Sending people to the stable is totally in season!
i just got it!

'tis the reason for the season...

5/5 5/5 *

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
TheFlyingPhoton wrote:
The last time I significantly refluffed/reskinned anything, I was playing the psychic pregen and I declared that the somatic components for the Mind Thrust spell was a pelvic thrust.
Just to state the obvious, but psychic casters do not use somatic components, so you didn't refluff something existing, you just added a bit of thrust to your Mind Thrust. (Yeah petty, but the rules for psychic spell casting are somewhat buried in that book, and you might not have been aware of them when you played the pregen)

I heard 3.5 psionics had olfactory components and something else instead of magic's S and V. Has Pathfinder done something similar?

I looked up Mind Thrust at the table to check its components, saw the S, and assumed somatic. Had it had a V there, I would have declared the Verbal component to be a deep grunt.

Silver Crusade 1/5 Contributor

TheFlyingPhoton wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
TheFlyingPhoton wrote:
The last time I significantly refluffed/reskinned anything, I was playing the psychic pregen and I declared that the somatic components for the Mind Thrust spell was a pelvic thrust.
Just to state the obvious, but psychic casters do not use somatic components, so you didn't refluff something existing, you just added a bit of thrust to your Mind Thrust. (Yeah petty, but the rules for psychic spell casting are somewhat buried in that book, and you might not have been aware of them when you played the pregen)

I heard 3.5 psionics had olfactory components and something else instead of magic's S and V. Has Pathfinder done something similar?

I looked up Mind Thrust at the table to check its components, saw the S, and assumed somatic. Had it had a V there, I would have declared the Verbal component to be a deep grunt.

3.5 psionics had "manifestations", which were specific sensations others felt when you used your powers. Pathfinder has components you must provide; they're just different from the ones you're used to.

The spells in Occult Adventures all use the arcane/divine components; you need to look elsewhere in the book (at the start of the Spells chapter) to figure out which of the psychic equivalents the spell has. If it's both V and S, it has both a thought and an emotion component.

A thought component increases your concentration DCs by 10 unless you spend a move action to clear your mind first.

An emotion component prevents you from casting when under the effects of a non-harmless emotion effect, such as fear, crushing despair[/i], or being demoralized by Intimidate.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

TheFlyingPhoton wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
TheFlyingPhoton wrote:
The last time I significantly refluffed/reskinned anything, I was playing the psychic pregen and I declared that the somatic components for the Mind Thrust spell was a pelvic thrust.
Just to state the obvious, but psychic casters do not use somatic components, so you didn't refluff something existing, you just added a bit of thrust to your Mind Thrust. (Yeah petty, but the rules for psychic spell casting are somewhat buried in that book, and you might not have been aware of them when you played the pregen)

I heard 3.5 psionics had olfactory components and something else instead of magic's S and V. Has Pathfinder done something similar?

I looked up Mind Thrust at the table to check its components, saw the S, and assumed somatic. Had it had a V there, I would have declared the Verbal component to be a deep grunt.

Occult Adventures page 144 wrote:

COMPONENTS

Psychic magic originates from the distinctive qualities
of the caster’s composite being, rather than through
arcane formulae or rote supplication to divine entities.
Therefore, psychic spells never have verbal or somatic
components, and have only expensive material
components. Psychic spells are purely mental actions,
and they can be cast even while the caster is pinned or
paralyzed. Focus components work the same way with
psychic spells as they do with other spells.
When a spell calls for an expensive material component,
a psychic spellcaster can instead use any item with both
signif icant meaning and a value greater than or equal to
the spell’s component cost. For example, if a spiritualist
wanted to cast raise dead to bring her dead husband back
from the grave, she could use her 5 ,000 gp wedding ring
as the spell’s material component.
Instead of verbal and somatic components, all psychic
spells have components related to the caster’s inner
being. The two psychic components are called emotion
components and thought components. If a spell’s
components line lists a somatic component, that spell
instead requires an emotion component when cast by
psychic spellcasters, and if it has a verbal component,
it instead requires a thought component when cast by
psychic spellcasters. Psychic spells cast by non-psychic
arcane and divine casters use any listed somatic and
verbal components as normal.
Emotion Components: Emotion components represent
a particular emotional state required to cast the spell.

A psychic spellcaster marshals her desire in order to focus
and release the spell’s energy. It is impossible to cast a
spell with an emotion component while the spellcaster
is under the inf luence of a non-harmless ef fect with the
emotion or fear descriptors. (The emotion descriptor
was originally introduced in Pathf inder R PG Ultimate
Magic.) Even if the ef fect’s emotion matches the necessary
emotion to cast the psychic spell, the spellcaster is not in
control of her own desires and animal impulses, which
is a necessary part of providing an emotion component.
Thought Components: Thought components represent
mental constructs necessary for the spell’s function,
such as picturing a wolf in vivid detail—down to the
saliva dripping from its jaws—in order to cast beast
shape to transform into a wolf. Thought components are
so mentally demanding that they make interruptions
and distractions extremely challenging. The DC for any
concentration check for a spell with a thought component
increases by 10. A psychic spellcaster casting a spell with
a thought component can take a move action before
beginning to cast the spell to center herself; she can then
use the normal DC instead of the increased DC.
Just as spell-like abilities never require verbal, somatic,
or material components, these abilities also don’t require
thought or emotion components. A psychic spellcaster
can replace verbal and somatic components with thought
and emotion components only for the purposes of the
spell components themselves, not for the purposes of
any other rules elements that relate to verbal and somatic
components. She can’t use Silent Spell to ignore the
thought component of a spell, for example. The new feats
Intuitive Spell and Logical Spell serve a similar function
for these new components, and appear in Chapter 3.

Grand Lodge 3/5

Chris Mortika wrote:
Kerney wrote:

I personally would not go that far, but I've played with a store coordinator who has. I've played with several Blackros including one run by a VO.

Of course, being a member of the Blackros family is something your character can earn. (Vagueness here, as I don't want to spoil something or hint at a boon.) In fact, simply claiming to be "Bob Blackros," a member of the family, would probably be considered particularly uncool, since that would be a claim that your PC had earned such a privilege.

There is a small subsect of that family living in our lodge. I wonder how big that family actually is, all characters taken into account...

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ***

So, this Blackros issue has me wondering if my GOBLIN is considered too "fluffy?" Meaning, is he taking too much advantage of cannon. Would you ban him from your table?

Background:
Durvin Gest, as he is now known, was once a slave of the Shadow Lodge during the time when they were rebelling from the Pathfinder Society. He spent much of his time in Almas under the iron fist of Hagla, a spiked chain wielding captain in the shadow organization. It wasn't until the society intervened and defeated the hobgoblin that Durvin was freed. The Andoran agents felt sorry for the goblins and how they were treated so sent them to Absalom to be cared for. That's when Durvin's life got interesting.

At Starrise Spire, Durvin witnessed fantastic things that shocked and amazed him. Unlike the other goblins he did not shrink away from the wonders, rather he tried to see how they functioned and from where they manifested. This was not lost on Kreighton Shaine, the society's master of scrolls. He tested the goblin and found Durvin could grasp the concepts of magic and the idiosyncrasies of casting spells. He submitted to the Decemvirate that he could teach magic to the goblin and make him a productive agent of the society. They had their doubts, but stopped short of denying Kreighton his little "pet" project. In fact secretly, they were interested to see if it could be done.

Over the next few months, Durvin was instructed in the rudiments of the arcane. Clearly, he would never become an archmage, but by combining flashy, offensive magic with the goblin's natural skill with a light blade, Kreighton believed he could develop Durvin into a magus. The challenge was getting a goblin to read magic. Where to start.

Goblins by their very nature are destructive and typically distrustful of humans, elves, and other demi-humans. So the first thing Kreighton needed to do was get Durvin to trust him. Granting the goblins their freedom and caring for them was a good start, but he needed to do more to really make an impression on [the new] Durvin. Fortunately, despite being unusually intelligent, Durvin is impulsive and a bit naive. Kreighton convinced him that he was the reincarnation of the Pathfinder Society's greatest hero, none other than Durvin Gest and he was there to rebuild the society after the Shadow Lodge rebellion and restore its past glory. Durvin always felt like he was better than other goblins anyway and this explained why. He embraced the identity and Kreighton was amused at how Durvin portrayed himself as a hero of the society.

Now, goblins believe that writing steals their thoughts and memories. So, Kreighton had to be inventive if Durvin was ever going to progress. He accomplished this by using the hieroglyphs of ancient Osirion and the goblin's natural propensity for visual imagery to develop a pictorial "language" representing the complicated components required to harness magic. Durvin was skeptical at first and did not want to even look at the spellbook. However, over time, his curiosity overwhelmed him and he would increasingly peek at the book, eventually "reading" all of it. He still does not trust words, which makes learning new spells and using scrolls problematic, but at least he can study his own spellbook.

After two years of study, largely under Kreighton's direct supervision, Durvin was declared competent enough to take the Confirmation, the test all aspiring agents must complete before being commissioned into the Pathfinder Society. Other than a few mishaps, like nearly being consumed by a gelatinous cube and accidentally freezing Janira Gavix's waterskin with a miscast cold spell, Durvin performed well. He has since been sent on a number of missions all over the Inner Sea. He was instrumental in discovering the diamond sage as well as saving Balenar Forsend from troglodytes in the Cairnlands. He even battled the demonic hordes that invaded Mendev leading an army of miniature golems into battle.

Kreighton continues to monitor Durvin's progress and the decemvirate was so impressed with the results, they encouraged other society leaders to teach valuable skills to other freed goblins who have also gone on to be (mostly) productive agents.


Note, there are some scenario spoilers in the background so read with caution

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Bob Jonquet wrote:

So, this Blackros issue has me wondering if my GOBLIN is considered too "fluffy?" Meaning, is he taking too much advantage of cannon. Would you ban him from your table?

** spoiler omitted **...

Seems like a good candidate for one of the GM boons (Student of Swords, Spells etc.) but other than that, nothing seems "ripping off" established boons or other player options (of course there could be some I am not aware of). The Blackros boon is a bit special, since it has quite a hefty cost associated with it.

Silver Crusade 4/5

Kerney wrote:


Quote:
Would it be okay if a PC claimed he was the son of Venture-Captain Ambrus Valsin?

I personally would not go that far, but I've played with a store coordinator who has. I've played with several Blackros including one run by a VO.

I have a friend whose Chelaxian inquisitor of Asmodeus has the last name Dralneen, and refers to Zarta as "my cousin".

nosig wrote:
I could see someone introduced as "Bob Blacros-no relation"... Playing up the fact that there is no connection.

I was about to say the same thing. "My name is Blackrose, not Blakros. I'm not in that vile family. Why does everyone make that mistake?" Bonus points for making him a paladin who completely disapproves of the entire Blakros clan, and their shady connections.

The Exchange 5/5

a historical example of "no relation"...
Jack Churchill "no relation" - Lieutenant Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming "Jack" Churchill, served in the British Army in WWII, ... though when captured, the Germans transferred him to Sachsenhausen-Oranienburg (which was used primarily for political prisoners), just in case there might have been some relationship...

Sovereign Court 1/5

Fromper wrote:
Kerney wrote:


Quote:
Would it be okay if a PC claimed he was the son of Venture-Captain Ambrus Valsin?

I personally would not go that far, but I've played with a store coordinator who has. I've played with several Blackros including one run by a VO.

I have a friend whose Chelaxian inquisitor of Asmodeus has the last name Dralneen, and refers to Zarta as "my cousin".

A Draleen? My son's father is a Thrune, though there are nearly fifty people ahead of him for the Throne. And since my son is being raised here, in Taldor, to inherit my County, I suspect it is rather academic.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Chris Mortika wrote:


Of course, being a member of the Blackros family is something your character can earn. (Vagueness here, as I don't want to spoil something or hint at a boon.) In fact, simply claiming to be "Bob Blackros," a member of the family, would probably be considered particularly uncool, since that would be a claim that your PC had earned such a privilege.
I have a character that's saving the resources for that particular something to come about. If someone showed up and just started playing a brand new character claiming such that had no way to obtain that particular something, that would very much grind my gears and I'd have to question it, either as a player or as a GM.

I started my Blakros character before I knew there was a boon. After I found out about the boon, she went from being a Blakros daughter to being a Blakros bastard.

Now when I introduce her, it's like this:

"Um, my name is Bobbi. My stupid family put a restraining order on me so I can't use my last name."

I play her almost exclusively in Blakros scenarios, usually with her hood up and a faked low voice so that "Uncle" Nigel won't recognize that she's sneaking into the museum again.

Incidentally her backstory includes handling a cursed object in the museum that messed with her sight.

It's ironic -- 90% of her personality is derived from having been told that I couldn't give her the Blakros name!

Shadow Lodge 4/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I think the family is massive enough that both, uh, organic Blakroses and adopted/married ones can peacefully coexist. As long as they both state what kind of involvement they'd prefer when/if I run them through a Blakros scenario and, if that involvement is familial such as helping out cousin Nigel with that pesky portal while the rest of the group investigates this next room, the rest of the group agree with losing some spotlight. I have no problem with modifying a scenario a tad, say having the Blakros PC's arriving at the island in Matrimony a bit earlier to help organize, as long as the scenario remains unchanged.

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