Are there OGL psionic dragons for pathfinder?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


Just that simple question... are there psionic dragons in the OGC wild?


Yep, Psionic Bestiary by Dreamscarred Press has psionic dragons.


Third party, yes, because Paizo does not have psionics as first party material.


The Psionic Bestiary is pretty deeply awesome and contains what you're looking for. You can also grab just the dragons here.

I thought they were all pretty unique and enjoyable.


But, afaik, that bestiary is not OGL, is it?


Anguish wrote:

The Psionic Bestiary is pretty deeply awesome and contains what you're looking for. You can also grab just the dragons here.

I thought they were all pretty unique and enjoyable.

Anguish, both links point to the same place, the where to buy the book, i wanted to see just the dragons by now.

Thanks for the link. I'm reading reviews of that book to see if i like them or not.


Psionic Bestiary credits wrote:

Product Identity: The following items are hereby identified as Product Identity, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a, Section 1(e), and are not Open Content: All trademarks, registered trademarks, proper names (characters, deities, etc.), dialogue, plots, storylines, locations, characters, artwork, and trade dress. (Elements that have previously been designated as Open Game Content or are in the public domain are not included in this declaration.)

Open Content: Except for material designated as Product Identity (see above), the game mechanics of this game product are Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Gaming License version 1.0a Section 1(d). No portion of this work other than the material designated as Open Game Content may be reproduced in any form without written permission.

I will let you lawyer that out yourself, but it's the usual "the crunch is all OGL" wording.

The full Psionic Bestiary doesn't seem to be available online anywhere (for free).


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If you don't mind them being for 3.5, there are the logos dragon and pathos dragon.


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cablop wrote:

Anguish, both links point to the same place, the where to buy the book, i wanted to see just the dragons by now.

Thanks for the link. I'm reading reviews of that book to see if i like them or not.

My apologies. I must've had a clipboard accident during lunch. The correct link to just the dragons is here. $5 instead of $15.

That said, if you're at all on the fence, the full bestiary is a gorgeous book.


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cablop wrote:
But, afaik, that bestiary is not OGL, is it?

Most of what 3rd-party publishers create for Pathfinder is OGL. That doesn't in any way guarantee that it's available for reading for free anywhere.

d20pfsrd which contains the largest concentration of PF material is entirely volunteer-driven. Someone has to extract the OGC crunch from books and mush it into HTML and index it. Huge pain in the butt, which is why as far as I know, the Psionic Bestiary isn't up anywhere.

Still. $5 for the dragons.

Also, if you are looking for anything specific, folks here may be willing to help by telling you if things are in the product.


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$5 is a small price to pay for the pdf. Dreamscarred's work is well worth the price. I have the pdf as well as the dead tree version of the full Psionic Bestiary.

It always makes for a nice random encounter when I can pull some psionic oddity out of this book that the players have never seen before. I love it.


Anguish wrote:

My apologies. I must've had a clipboard accident during lunch. The correct link to just the dragons is here. $5 instead of $15.

That said, if you're at all on the fence, the full bestiary is a gorgeous book.

Thanks for the link.

I'll look into it.

It is sad they don't make a list or something to help us know what's inside of the book.

Liberty's Edge

Change the word 'psychic' to 'psionic' and the Esoteric Dragons from Bestiary 5 qualify.


cablop wrote:

Thanks for the link.

I'll look into it.

It is sad they don't make a list or something to help us know what's inside of the book.

It's hard for 3rd-party publishers to manage all the PR/marketing that Paizo does. I'm very away from my main PF library and connectivity blows so I can currently only offer from-my-memory information.

Basically, the dragon book is presented the same way a Paizo bestiary does. First it opens with the review of standard dragon traits, then it launches into types. Each one has sample statblocks for the same ages as Paizo does. There are about seven types, I recall. Each one sort of embodies one of the psionic classes. So the (I believe) Lorican dragons are sort of like Cryptics, with pattern-ish abilities. They are all distinct, with unique and well-chosen capabilities.

That's as specific as I can get right now. I think it's about 32 pages with gorgeous full-colour art.

Full-disclosure: I believe I did proofreading on the psionic dragons book, on a volunteer basis. Maybe it was the full Bestiary. Don't remember, can't check. But suffice it to say, while I'm involved, it's not in a monetary way, just a fan.


Cypher dragons are like crytics. Loricans are like Aegeis.


CBDunkerson wrote:
Change the word 'psychic' to 'psionic' and the Esoteric Dragons from Bestiary 5 qualify.

Nope, psychic dragons use psychic magic instead of psionic powers.

Liberty's Edge

cablop wrote:
Nope, psychic dragons use psychic magic instead of psionic powers.

Yeah, I tend to ignore purely semantic distinctions.


CBDunkerson wrote:
Yeah, I tend to ignore purely semantic distinctions.

Psychic magic acts completely differently to psionics so it's more than semantics. You may as well suggest they are incarnum dragons or use Path of War maneouvers.


CBDunkerson wrote:
cablop wrote:
Nope, psychic dragons use psychic magic instead of psionic powers.
Yeah, I tend to ignore purely semantic distinctions.

I could be wrong, but it sounds like you haven't read one or the other, or both. Really, Occult Aventures is the best name for Paizo's product, and "psychic magic" should've used that term. There's very little fluff or mechanical, or even stylistic crossover between OA and psionics. Certainly nowhere near enough to even almost justify "purely" semantic.

Still, it's cool you're trying to help.

Liberty's Edge

My point is that there is absolutely no reason that you cannot treat 'psychic magic' as 'psionics'. They are just different ways of expressing the same themes.

Yes, the rules mechanics for 'psychic magic' from OA are different than those for 'psionics' from v3/3.5 and various 3rd party variants of those for the Pathfinder ruleset. However, that doesn't change the fact that if we ignore the rules structure the difference between an Occult Adventures "Psychic" casting the 1st level "psychic spell" Telempathic Projection and an Ultimate Psionics "Psion" manifesting the 1st level "psionic power" Telempathic Projection is entirely semantic.


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CBDunkerson wrote:

My point is that there is absolutely no reason that you cannot treat 'psychic magic' as 'psionics'. They are just different ways of expressing the same themes.

Yes, the rules mechanics for 'psychic magic' from OA are different than those for 'psionics' from v3/3.5 and various 3rd party variants of those for the Pathfinder ruleset. However, that doesn't change the fact that if we ignore the rules structure the difference between an Occult Adventures "Psychic" casting the 1st level "psychic spell" Telempathic Projection and an Ultimate Psionics "Psion" manifesting the 1st level "psionic power" Telempathic Projection is entirely semantic.

Referencing the small amount of overlap doesn't prove the point. Mind thrust has the same name, yes, but say... the Spiritualist and oh... any psionic class have zilch in common, thematically.

Really, psychic and psionic are much farther arpart than arcane and divine, but you wouldn't recommend someone who wants to play a spontaneous wizard to try an oracle.


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CBDunkerson wrote:
My point is that there is absolutely no reason that you cannot treat 'psychic magic' as 'psionics'.

So why not use chromatic dragons? According to this there is no reason that you cannot treat 'arcane magic' as 'psionics'.

Quote:
They are just different ways of expressing the same themes.

Nope. Completely different themes. Psionics is more sci-fi/superhero style mindpowers, while psychic magic is flavoured as new-age mysticism and occultism. The only links are "uses some names as a nod to the history of the game Pathfinder is based on", "mental based", "there is a mindblade magus, who functions completely differently to a soulknife".

Paizo Employee Design Manager

Not to continue a derail, but as an owner of both Ultimate Psionics and Occult Adventures, I just wanted to add my voice to those saying that the two are very different, both thematically and mechanically. There's a small smattering of spells/powers that use the same name (largely, as already mentioned, as a nod to the game's history), but that's about it. Occult Adventures has a very Lovecraftian, "soul magic" kind of vibe, while the Ultimate Psionics options are much more sci-fi, "power of the mind".

It's very difficult to conflate the two if you have even a passing familiarity with them both. I personally have actually used both sourcebooks side-by-side in the same campaign with great results (and exactly 0 confusion over what was psychic and what was psionic).

More on subject, I have the Psionic Bestiary and am a big fan of pretty much everything in there. I really like the psionic dragons in particular, which feel much different than most other dragons I've run, with some really fun and unique abilities.

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