Add Graphic Representation or Chart of Player Turn in Future Editions


Pathfinder Adventure Card Game General Discussion


Took me a while to notice this, but while reviewing PDFs of other games to see if they may make good christmas gifts, I noticed that in the instructions to all the PACGs, there is no graphic, chart, or significant call out of the steps/phases of a players turn. The phases are all explained, but there is no concise preview or review of them anywhere in the instructions, except for the type-formatted list on the back cover reference sheet (which could use a bit of sprucing up too).

On first read of the instructions, it may be a bit confusing as there is no initial road map of where the rule or step you're learning fits into the big picture. And the steps are usually only mentioned once as a paragraph lead in. Some sections, this isn't so bad, like (S&S version) on Encountering A Villain: it's all on one page, so easy to see the bold headers and digest (tho it could still use a graphic or flowchart), but other sections span several pages (Attempting a Check, for instance).

Also with everything that's additionally mentioned in the FAQ (what constitutes between steps and between phases of an encounter), this could be extremely helpful to those new to the game. There are also many other areas where additional graphics could be extremely helpful or just pleasant to look at, like the Example of Play section or Assembling Dice (for example, it can be further emphasized that additional dice are always the skill die--there are several areas where a graphic call out could be extremely helpful to a critical rule).

Currently, this is my most favorite game, but it took a fair bit of effort to get the rules and phases straight through just reading. When I first thumb through instructions after opening a new game, that one simple review can lay down an initial structure for the game which then is built upon when I knuckle down to read the actual rules and minuatae. It would be a shame if those new to the game were turned away because of perceived rule complication or confusion, as the game is pretty simple once you get the hang of it (mostly!).


There is a turn overview on the last page of the rules. If you take the last box (WotR), it is quite complete.
Or just just rely on Hawk's work which is tremendous.

Paizo Employee Chief Technical Officer

There's an interesting problem here. Things that aid in making rules easier to understand tend to have space implications, whether that's graphics, reiterations in summary form, or examples. Yet including things like that drives up page count, and that itself can be a factor in how approachable a game "feels." Which is to say, yes, there are certainly things like that that could be added to the rulebook, but it means the rulebook has to grow from 32 pages to 36, and that alone adds to the perceived complexity of the game. If we think it's worth it, we'll do it, of course—the rules have already expanded from 24 pages in the first printing of RotR, and while a lot of that is additional rules, some of that space was dedicated to things that make the game easier to learn (most visibly, a table of contents and doubling the size of the example of play). We haven't laid out the Mummy's Mask rulebook yet, but if it has to expand to 36 pages, we'll look at adding more of that sort of thing... but if we can manage to keep it at 32 pages, we probably will.


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Frencois wrote:

There is a turn overview on the last page of the rules. If you take the last box (WotR), it is quite complete.

Or just just rely on Hawk's work which is tremendous.

Hawk's work is great, but I don't think it's a good idea to rely heavily on a source outside of the base game to clarify how a game should work (and I'm saying this as humbly as I can, as I've followed the evolution and growing pains of PACG through the many threads on this forum). Only a small percentage of players take the extra effort to find sources outside of the box (online forums being one example), and generally those tend to be the ones who are most enthusiastic about a game anyhow. So though extremely helpful, it can be a disservice to the larger percentage of players to expect that knowledge gap to be filled by outside sources. (And even worse when the game producers or community say that the player base SHOULD do it--please don't go in that direction!).

The work and clarity done with the rules between RotR and WotR has been tremendous. But as the game has evolved, I believe that the way it's presented can evolve as well, and it may be necessary as it grows in popularity. I'm no stranger to how "just a few pages" can sound simple, but can grow into incredible complexity (I was a graphic designer and prepress technician in a previous life). At the least, I believe the Reference Sheet could use a graphic redo--the information is there, but it's not presented in such a great way; as well as presenting the summarized Turn Overview and possibly Encountering A Card at or right before their respective sections. These two/three changes alone could clarify a tremendous amount and provide quite a bit of polish.

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