Dave Setty |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This is quite the tricky conundrum.
...
2.1) The entire effect ends, but the PC still has to clear the permanent negative levels.
...
To me, #2.1 feels like the best option. It's not especially punitive, and it doesn't open up weird character design loopholes. Thoughts or concerns?
2.1 all the way. Fair and unambiguous.
Ragoz |
I like 3 the most. Creating an opportunity sounds much more appealing. You could allow them to be something like a human with the Dual Talent racial trait for free (to represent the powerful nature of the Azlanti.)
If this wasn't the case then I would require the Raise Dead at the very least. You died to a Phantasmal Killer. A raise is already much easier than a True Res.
Wei Ji the Learner |
If this wasn't the case then I would require the Raise Dead at the very least. You died to a Phantasmal Killer. A raise is already much easier than a True Res.
That's why the 'levels still need to be paid off' in 2.1. It's assumed that there's some form of raising going on in the trap process, but the 'condition' of permanent negative levels would need to be cleared.
So the math (as far as I can read it)
*poof* Phantasmal Killer eats your brain, you die.
*poof* You end up in Clone bod.
*poof* End of module, you end up back in your 'normal' form, which may be marked for the experience. (I really like this option)
*poof* Your debt of permanent negative levels is now due, before your next session.
Lorewalker |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
2.1 seems like a 'fair' way to handle it. And by potentially keeping 'the look', it's right along the lines of what I had suggested in the thread, but instead of race-changing to 'just human' allowing players to keep their original race (however, with the option to look a bit different) but still requiring the permanent negative levels cleared indicates that yes, this was *indeed a trap*.
The cosmetic changes in this case are sort of like the 't-shirt' for 'surviving' the trap.
Hmmm...
"I survived Sorchen's death trap and all I got was these looks to show for it..."
Catchy!
I'll second this. It gives you a badge to carry without a mechanical benefit, which is one of my more favorite boons. Oddly enough. And, paying for the two neg levels is very fair.
Wei Ji the Learner |
Because when you are raised with Raise Dead, you get two negative levels that need to be cleared.
The 'substantial detriment' is 'not as bad due to things in module'. PFS characters won't get the bigger benefit, so they aren't getting hit as hard in the penalty phase, from the way I read it.
Swiftbrook |
This is quite the tricky conundrum.
It's also the case that continuing to play as a full-blooded Azlanti with all the accompanying ability score increases is not in the interest of the campaign.
The new body does not alter the character's statistics in any way, with the exception that the character's race becomes Azlanti. All of the character's racial traits are lost, replaced by human racial traits (you should give the player some time to choose his bonus feat and apply his bonus skill ranks as the player sees fit). In addition, the character loses his racial ability scores from the previous race, replacing them with the standard +2 bonus to all six ability scores that Azlanti humans get.
Here's another idea. What if you just eliminated the last line of the trap? The trap does not change the characters ability scores in any way. They don't lose their old racial ability modifiers nor do they gain the standard +2 for all six. The player can play an Azlanti and game balance is not upset. If you wanted too, you could say that the +2 is a temporary bonus that goes away at the end of the AP.
Lorewalker |
John Compton wrote:This is quite the tricky conundrum.
It's also the case that continuing to play as a full-blooded Azlanti with all the accompanying ability score increases is not in the interest of the campaign.
Curse of the Lady's Light wrote:The new body does not alter the character's statistics in any way, with the exception that the character's race becomes Azlanti. All of the character's racial traits are lost, replaced by human racial traits (you should give the player some time to choose his bonus feat and apply his bonus skill ranks as the player sees fit). In addition, the character loses his racial ability scores from the previous race, replacing them with the standard +2 bonus to all six ability scores that Azlanti humans get.Here's another idea. What if you just eliminated the last line of the trap? The trap does not change the characters ability scores in any way. They don't lose their old racial ability modifiers nor do they gain the standard +2 for all six. The player can play an Azlanti and game balance is not upset. If you wanted too, you could say that the +2 is a temporary bonus that goes away at the end of the AP.
This is very similar to having a 'resemblance' boon like John mentioned. Except it could possibly also be changing your gender in this version.
John Compton Developer |
Swiftbrook wrote:This is very similar to having a 'resemblance' boon like John mentioned. Except it could possibly also be changing your gender in this version.John Compton wrote:This is quite the tricky conundrum.
It's also the case that continuing to play as a full-blooded Azlanti with all the accompanying ability score increases is not in the interest of the campaign.
Curse of the Lady's Light wrote:The new body does not alter the character's statistics in any way, with the exception that the character's race becomes Azlanti. All of the character's racial traits are lost, replaced by human racial traits (you should give the player some time to choose his bonus feat and apply his bonus skill ranks as the player sees fit). In addition, the character loses his racial ability scores from the previous race, replacing them with the standard +2 bonus to all six ability scores that Azlanti humans get.Here's another idea. What if you just eliminated the last line of the trap? The trap does not change the characters ability scores in any way. They don't lose their old racial ability modifiers nor do they gain the standard +2 for all six. The player can play an Azlanti and game balance is not upset. If you wanted too, you could say that the +2 is a temporary bonus that goes away at the end of the AP.
One of the difficulties with this approach is what happens to race-specific character options that the PC possessed already. Are they instantly retrained? Do they remain despite the new form? If the latter, could a gnome bard with the prankster (gnome-only) archetype turn into a faux-Azlanti human and then multiclass into a sorcerer with the imperious (human-only) bloodline? Would an oread summoner with the stone shield (oread-only) spell have to retrain that spell?
Every time I look at mid-career effects that change a character's race, the more things I see that might complicate the process—at least in an organized play environment in which establishing clear guidelines [of what to keep and what to retrain] is important.
John Compton Developer |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There is a GM Star Reward Chronicle sheet that opens up access to one of the core race's special spells for a 5-star GM. However—beyond limited options available to half-elves and half-orcs—the only way I can think of for one to combine one race's special archetype(s) with those of another race, is the Racial Heritage feat for humans.
These are options either granted by a racial trait or acquired by spending a feat—both of which enable planning around that choice. Beyond the possible inadvertent ramifications of crossing race-specific character options that might result, I am perturbed by the prospect of this trap being used by players specifically so that they can change their race, much in the same way that I find the concept of Chronicle-fishing unsettling. I'd rather the trap remain a surprise, not a pilgrimage destination.
Ragoz |
It doesn't seem like it is any more or less a surprise than any other boon. Something interesting happening sounds a lot better than paying my Raise and/or Restoration fees.
If I designed this and could put it on the chronicle I would make it this:
The player becomes an Azlanti for the remainder of the scenario.
If they are playing this character in the rest of the Adventure Path as part of the home campaign option they may continue to use the Azlanti option.
If they they aren't they may continue to play their character as a human who receives the Dual talent racial trait for free to represent the Clone's abilities and get a +10 on disguise checks to appear as Sorshen.
I just like the sound of it becoming something cool rather than just another gold tax when the Adventure intended it to be cool.
Even if the player never intended to change his race he still has the option of using a True Resurrection, Wish, or Miracle to undo the effect. While costly the Guild Guide already covers the ability to pay for this expense.
Dave Setty |
If they are playing this character in the rest of the Adventure Path as part of the home campaign option they may continue to use the Azlanti option.
I think that would be allowed anyway, since you don't have to follow PFS rules in home-campaign mode. If you really think this possibility is cool that's the way to play it.
Ragoz |
John Compton wrote:I'd rather the trap remain a surprise, not a pilgrimage destination.If a permanent race change is allowed resulting from this it will be used that way. I can't imagine any good coming from allowing it.
This is already on a chronicle sheet and has established rules for how it can be executed without abuse. At least I certainly haven't heard of anyone using that boon in such a way.
Tamec Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs |
John Compton wrote:I'd rather the trap remain a surprise, not a pilgrimage destination.If a permanent race change is allowed resulting from this it will be used that way. I can't imagine any good coming from allowing it.
I remember a trap in the ruins of Greyhawk that gave ability scores (make the save get ability scores and magic item, fail lose magic items and stats)....after the first time every other adventuring party that went down there found it sprung.
Dave Setty |
Dave Setty wrote:This is already on a chronicle sheet and has established rules for how it can be executed without abuse. At least I certainly haven't heard of anyone using that boon in such a way.John Compton wrote:I'd rather the trap remain a surprise, not a pilgrimage destination.If a permanent race change is allowed resulting from this it will be used that way. I can't imagine any good coming from allowing it.
I'm not seeing it on the chronicles for Shattered Star. If it's from elsewhere, what is the text of that boon?
Ragoz |
I'm not seeing it on the chronicles for Shattered Star. If it's from elsewhere, what is the text of that boon?
You have been transformed into another creature. This may only be reversed by a wish or miracle. Record your new form on the line below. You do not gain any racial traits as a result of your new race. You retain your old form's traits. Small size = 20ft movement. Medium = 30ft movement. (dwarves are the exception and move 20). You are treated as both your new and old race for the purposes of ranger class features and Bane.
You retain any race specific feats, FCB, spells, and options but you don't qualify for new ones. If you have a race specific archetype or prestige class you don't lose it but it costs you 4 prestige each new level in it.
Lorewalker |
There is a GM Star Reward Chronicle sheet that opens up access to one of the core race's special spells for a 5-star GM. However—beyond limited options available to half-elves and half-orcs—the only way I can think of for one to combine one race's special archetype(s) with those of another race, is the Racial Heritage feat for humans.
These are options either granted by a racial trait or acquired by spending a feat—both of which enable planning around that choice. Beyond the possible inadvertent ramifications of crossing race-specific character options that might result, I am perturbed by the prospect of this trap being used by players specifically so that they can change their race, much in the same way that I find the concept of Chronicle-fishing unsettling. I'd rather the trap remain a surprise, not a pilgrimage destination.
It could be run as a simple cosmetic change. You are still your old race as far as game mechanics go. A gnome would still qualify for gnome things, but look like an azlanti(which would make a difference in how NPCs react to you, but otherwise no change). Sort of like a permanent polymorph, without any stat changes.
Andreas Forster Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg |
If they are playing this character in the rest of the Adventure Path as part of the home campaign option they may continue to use the Azlanti option.
That's not an option for PFS characters. If you're playing campaign mode, then you're using characters specifically built for playing the entire AP, who won't ever participate in anything else. What happens to those is covered in the AP.
PFS characters only play the sanctioned portions and then return to pathfinder missions.As for the Emerald Spire boon, that's for tier 10-12, so the characters are very close to ending their career as pathfinders (only being able to participate in high-level modules). Although the way it is worded does prevent abuse, it also penalizes continuing quite a bit if you're using a race-speciific archetype, which can kill an entire character concept if this happens mid-level.
2) The entire effect—death, clone, and new body shape—ends. Because the clone effectively brought the PC back to life immediately, she wasn't really dead at the end of the scenario. The condition clears, and if the player so desires, the PC might retain a Sorchen-esque appearance (even if she's a halfling who looks rather like that runelord).
2.1) The entire effect ends, but the PC still has to clear the permanent negative levels.
I also like option 2.1, although I also like an idea that has been brought up since, to give an option to disguise as Sorshen. This would have to be added as a boon, though, maybe something like this:
"During your exploration, you were killed and reincarnated into a clone of Runelord Sorshen. Although this granted you power, that power was short-lived and you transformed back into your old body. A small portion of the clone still remains within you, allowing you to cast Disguise Self once per day as a spell-like ability with a caster level equal to your character level, but only to appear as Runelord Sorshen.
Having been killed and reincarnated, you also gained two permanent negative levels, which you have to clear using the regular means."
kinevon |
This is quite the tricky conundrum.
I'll say right off the bat that requiring true resurrection or wish in order to continue playing one's character is just too costly for this situation. It's also the case that continuing to play as a full-blooded Azlanti with all the accompanying ability score increases is not in the interest of the campaign.
It's true that one of the The Emerald Spire Superdungeon Chronicle sheets does reference a phenomenon that can change the PC's race and gender, and I feel that does a relatively clean job of covering a sudden and decisive change to a PC's race without calling for a complete rebuild. On the other hand, I'm not going to call it the idea solution; even reviewing it now, I can see some weird loopholes that would bother me more if it didn't show up near the end of a conventional Pathfinder Society character's career.
It seems like there are three different options in how to rule this—similar in ways to the ones Undead Mitch noted.
1) The clone effect ends, and the magically created body crumbles at the end of the scenario. The PC got to parade around with superheroic stats for several dozen encounters, but now she's dead. Raise dead would restore her to her original body.
2) The entire effect—death, clone, and new body shape—ends. Because the clone effectively brought the PC back to life immediately, she wasn't really dead at the end of the scenario. The condition clears, and if the player so desires, the PC might retain a Sorchen-esque appearance (even if she's a halfling who looks rather like that runelord).
2.1) The entire effect ends, but the PC still has to clear the permanent negative levels.
3) Create an exception that allows a PC to change her race. This would require a significant amount of rules language and a modest amount of rebuilding. It might also result in some weird rules side effects like halflings with a Strength bonus or Medium gnomes.
To me, #2.1 feels like the best option. It's not...
Was a final ruling ever posted on this issue?
Lorewalker |
John Compton wrote:...This is quite the tricky conundrum.
I'll say right off the bat that requiring true resurrection or wish in order to continue playing one's character is just too costly for this situation. It's also the case that continuing to play as a full-blooded Azlanti with all the accompanying ability score increases is not in the interest of the campaign.
It's true that one of the The Emerald Spire Superdungeon Chronicle sheets does reference a phenomenon that can change the PC's race and gender, and I feel that does a relatively clean job of covering a sudden and decisive change to a PC's race without calling for a complete rebuild. On the other hand, I'm not going to call it the idea solution; even reviewing it now, I can see some weird loopholes that would bother me more if it didn't show up near the end of a conventional Pathfinder Society character's career.
It seems like there are three different options in how to rule this—similar in ways to the ones Undead Mitch noted.
1) The clone effect ends, and the magically created body crumbles at the end of the scenario. The PC got to parade around with superheroic stats for several dozen encounters, but now she's dead. Raise dead would restore her to her original body.
2) The entire effect—death, clone, and new body shape—ends. Because the clone effectively brought the PC back to life immediately, she wasn't really dead at the end of the scenario. The condition clears, and if the player so desires, the PC might retain a Sorchen-esque appearance (even if she's a halfling who looks rather like that runelord).
2.1) The entire effect ends, but the PC still has to clear the permanent negative levels.
3) Create an exception that allows a PC to change her race. This would require a significant amount of rules language and a modest amount of rebuilding. It might also result in some weird rules side effects like halflings with a Strength bonus or Medium gnomes.
To me, #2.1 feels
I have not seen one. I think its still up in the air. There are reasons why the trap is permanent and there are reasons it shouldn't be. My suggestion is to pretend the trap never affected you at the end of the adventure, but keep the fact you were hit by it on your sheet for eventual clarification.
But that's just my two-cents.Tamec Venture-Agent, Florida–Altamonte Springs |
Lorewalker |
I slightly change my earlier post to meet my original position on this issue.
---------
Unfortunately until John gets back to the issue, you are 100% within legality to be an azlanti afterwards as there has not been an official resolution to the issue. You do have the negative levels, as per the clone spell.
But, 2.1 is the best way to handle it. Though the GM can not gain-say the official guide even with knowledge that it is not intended to grant you this ability, as the legality of it is official and the intention is not. Just as you can not say raise dead ends at the end of an adventure.
But, I would not suggest trying to keep an azlanti form. Instead pretend that 2.1 is a FAQ for the sake of PFS harmony.
I just hope we get an official FAQ eventually...
And keep it on your sheet still. There will no doubt eventually be a resolution and an additional boon my be passed out for it.
Lorewalker |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
No, you cannot legally permanently change to an Azlanti.
Yes, you can. For the exact reason I gave when this was a current thread. Especially since it doesn't have to be on the Additional Resources if another Paizo source gives you the legality, like the adventure does. Similiar to if a creature in the adventure cast Reincarnate on you for someone reason after death.
It's just you shouldn't. The effect of clone works like raise dead, but with a new body. Usually that body is a clone of you, here it is not. Clone would be a permanent effect, exactly as raise dead is.
If it weren't legal, it wouldn't have been an issue and could have been shot down immediately with an easy fix.
Now, here's the straight deal, John(or Tanya or someone) still needs to make an official fix for this issue. Even though we know the intention is that it shouldn't be legal. Which is why we shouldn't do it.
Until there is an official fix, we have a list of potential fixes. 2.1 seems to be the most liked and most elegant solution.
As we, most players, are not trying to destroy PFS we should follow that as an official fix until we have one and not try to be azlanti people.
But ignoring the fact that this is an issue and saying "no, it's definitely not legal even though there is no source saying it is illegal and a source saying it is" does not help the issue even if it's just so no one 'gets the wrong idea'.
Now, please, Andrew if you want to disagree with this please give an argument for your case instead of just saying, 'No it's not'.
If I have missed a stealth fix for this issue somewhere else, I would admit that I am wrong now but pre-fix I would have been right.
GM Lamplighter |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Azlanti are not PFS legal. Reincarnate is not PFS legal. The Chronicle doesn't list the effect as a boon. Therefore, the effect ends at the end of the scenario, since it is not specifically called out as one that can extend beyond the scenario by the Guide.
The discrepancy is, what does that mean? Do you need raise dead, true rez, or what? But there is nothing that says you can carry that illegal option forward. If you show up at your next game with an Azlanti character, and there is no boon granting it, your PC is illegal and can't play.
Lorewalker |
Azlanti are not PFS legal. Reincarnate is not PFS legal. The Chronicle doesn't list the effect as a boon. Therefore, the effect ends at the end of the scenario, since it is not specifically called out as one that can extend beyond the scenario by the Guide.
The discrepancy is, what does that mean? Do you need raise dead, true ress, or what? But there is nothing that says you can carry that illegal option forward.
In the section dealing with permanency of spells, no spell is specifically called out as a permanent healing spell. They tell you the criteria for one, if spell does 'x' then it is permanent.
If what you say is true, not being on the boon prevents spell permanence... then raise dead, CLW, restoration and the like would not be permanent either. They are not called out specifically as permanent. Sure they are legal, but the only reason their effects are not recalled at the end of the adventure is because they fit the quoted portion of the guide below.
"Spells and effects with permanent or instantaneous duration that heal damage, repair damage, or remove harmful conditions remain in effect at the end of the scenario."
Clone fits this description, as does the clone variant from the adventure.
If something is not PFS legal, that means a PC may not choose that option. It does not mean that option can not be applied to a PC from another official source. Such as a trap applying a condition to a player, with a normally illegal condition.
Clone is legal, the adventure is legal, the trap is legal. Thus, the effect is legal. The trap should have been adjusted for PFS.
There are plenty of effects that are permanent that happen during an adventure that do not make it to the boon sheet. It not being there does not change the fact that the guide calls this effect a permanent effect.
For reincarnate...
"The following spells found in the Core Rulebook are not legal for play and may never be used, found, purchased, or learned in any form by PCs playing Pathfinder Society
Scenarios: awaken, permanency, and reincarnate."
This means a PC can not do anything with reincarnate, but it does not mean reincarnate can not be used on a player by an NPC. The only thing preventing that from happening is that NPCs are not written for scenarios with the spell nor circumstances written where it is applied to a character.
Now, the section of the guide that could prevent this...
"All conditions gained during an adventure, except for permanent negative levels, ability drain that does not reduce an ability score to 0, and conditions that provide no mechanical effect, must be resolved before the end of the session; if these are not resolved the character should be reported as ‘dead.’ Permanent negative levels, ability drain, and non-mechanical conditions being carried over to the next session should be recorded under the Notes section of the Chronicle sheet."
But that requires for the effect to be considered a 'condition'. There is no defined condition that fits this effect, but if you go by the definition that a condition is any effect that changes a character to be different at the end of the adventure then they were at the beginning... well, then this means perma-death or resolving the condition.
But here I am repeating the thread again and will call this my final post on the issue.
Do not take any of this as an indication that I am for the azlanti permanence. Read the whole thread to know different. But, I tell it like the Guide says. And am for an official correction.
GM Lamplighter |
PFS Guide wrote:"Spells and effects with permanent or instantaneous duration that heal damage, repair damage, or remove harmful conditions remain in effect at the end of the scenario."Clone fits this description, as does the clone variant from the adventure.
Show me where in the clone description it says it does any of that.
My point is this: there is no reason to think that an illegal option magically becomes legal without it being on a Chronicle. Yep, you finish the adventure with the effect. It then either ends (as all magical effects do beyond specific examples), or it's a condition that must be cleared. Either way, the resulting character with the effect is NOT legal.
Campaign staff are already looking at it; please don't try to encourage people to exploit a (non-existant) loophole before it closes.
Lorewalker |
Lorewalker wrote:PFS Guide wrote:"Spells and effects with permanent or instantaneous duration that heal damage, repair damage, or remove harmful conditions remain in effect at the end of the scenario."Clone fits this description, as does the clone variant from the adventure.Show me where in the clone description it says it does any of that.
My point is this: there is no reason to think that an illegal option magically becomes legal without it being on a Chronicle. Yep, you finish the adventure with the effect. It then either ends (as all magical effects do beyond specific examples), or it's a condition that must be cleared. Either way, the resulting character with the effect is NOT legal.
Campaign staff are already looking at it; please don't try to encourage people to exploit a (non-existant) loophole before it closes.
I will repeat... Legality is only for PCs. Not for adventures/NPCs/effects. Those things can cause what is illegal for a PC to choose during character creation/leveling to become legal after they apply their effect. The boon sheet would have to say a normally permanent effect is not permanent in this case, instead of the other way around.
I never once encouraged people to exploit it. I did the very opposite. Did you not read my whole posts?
But, I will show you exactly where clone fulfills the requirements...
"Spells and effects with permanent or instantaneous duration that heal damage, repair damage, or remove harmful conditions remain in effect at the end of the scenario."
This requires two things to happen in the effect. 1) Be permanent/instantaneous. 2)Heal/repair damage or remove a harmful condition.
1)Clone is a permanent, instantaneous effect. 2) It removes the harmful condition, Death, similar to a raise dead effect.
"In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including its gaining of two permanent negative levels, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature."
If clone did not fit this bill, raise dead would not either. I mean, the spell is very much an arcane raise dead that doesn't require the whole body. I don't know how you can disagree with this.
GM Lamplighter |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
You're welcome to your interpretation, Lorewalker. I don't think your chain of logic is sound, and I'd be surprised if many other GMs chose to apply it in actual circumstances. Unfortunately, I have been on the receiving end of too many "some guy on the forums said it was LEGAL!" defenses to not call out the fact that your statement is at the least, controversial.
Saying something is legal when it is very much in doubt is passing on a bunch of hassle to actual table GMs running actual games. I wish we all remembered that more often when posting in absolutes here. (Myself included.)
Lorewalker |
You're welcome to your interpretation, Lorewalker. I don't think your chain of logic is sound, and I'd be surprised if many other GMs chose to apply it in actual circumstances. Unfortunately, I have been on the receiving end of too many "some guy on the forums said it was LEGAL!" defenses to not call out the fact that your statement is at the least, controversial.
Saying something is legal when it is very much in doubt is passing on a bunch of hassle to actual table GMs running actual games. I wish we all remembered that more often when posting in absolutes here. (Myself included.)
I have posted where the guide says clone is a legal permanent effect. The trap ends with clone, but with a twist.
You literally can not gain-say this and be correct. It is definite. You can disagree and we can argue, but up to this point it is fairly definite. You become azlanti due to a permanent(by PFS definition) effect.It just means that your player is 'perma-dead' due to having a condition with a mechanical effect that is not 'resolved'. The issue is clearing away the 'I'm an azlanti now' condition without being too expensive for the level(or possibly allowing it to by-pass the mechanical effect rule, as John suggested as a possibility but said is very not likely to become official). To make it fall in line with other PFS standards. Not whether or not the effect is permanent.
If the character were already a legal azlanti, there would be no mechanical effect. "I look different" is not much different than "now I glow red, but not so brightly as to be like a light spell". They would now be this new azlanti, permanently, without a perma-death.
Now, if you want to say my saying their characters are now legal azlanti, but unplayable, is somehow telling people to exploit this 'loophole' as you say... I can not agree with your assessment. Unless you believe I am trying to 'explot' people into perma-death, which I wouldn't do.
Also, as to your line...
"and I'd be surprised if many other GMs chose to apply it in actual circumstances."
How many GMs choose to apply a rule does not decide whether a rule is 'real' or not. This is obvious, but may be worth saying. Rules are rules, regardless of who follows them. We ignore technicalities in this game all the time. So much so that we've taken some of these corrections as the actual rule, with repeated use. By we, I mean the general community.
If you wish to argue against a rule I quote I would appreciate if you would post a rule back, instead of telling me 'other people would not do it this way'.
UndeadMitch |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The fact that people are requiring management to hold our hands for this matter is pretty telling to me. John has layed out a solution, it is simple and reasonable, but people won't accept it unless he actually says, "Hey gang, 2.1 is official".
We as a community need to be able to adjudicate things like this ourselves. If our leadership has to comment on every issue like this and clarifications and all the other goofy stuff that we have been bickering over for the past couple months, then they are not going to have time to take care of more important things like sanctioning new modules, AP's, Player Companions and Campaign Settings and so on.
We as a community are putting management in the unenviable position of getting yelled out for not holding out hand through every little issue that pops up, or getting yelled at for not sanctioning content any faster than they are.
Let's all just try to chill, work together, and let Tonya, John, and Linda do their jobs.