Racial Slurs in Game

[Paulicus]

Oh yeah, I definitely wouldn't have gone for it if anyone was put off, it's almost more of a caricature. Lots of "You fleshies all look the same to me!" and the like.

I have a level 2 deaf Oracle that I'm more cautious about playing because I try to imitate the slurring speech many deaf folks have. Luckily no one gets offended locally, but I always check just to be sure. I don't think I'd bring him to a con without getting the table's approval first. :P

[DeathlessOne]

Huh, well ... Racism actually plays a role in many of the games my local group participates in. Just as much as we all enjoy the mechanics of the game, we enjoy the roleplaying aspect much more. Making our worlds feel dynamic and fluid is one of the most important aspects to our gaming sessions. To that degree, players will find people that actively think less (or more) of them due to gender, race, age, charisma, and even sexual orientation.

For example, one of our members plays a racist elf-decended Aasimar (Zen Archer) that was brought up in a female only monastery. She only feels safe around mostly human races, or most of the races from the Core book except the half-orcs. Anything 'tainted' with 'monster' blood is to be subject to scrutiny and is not beyond being labelled a suspect whenever something goes wrong. Her parents were slain by Hill Giants before she was taken into the monastery. She is also attracted to females and views any male attention as unwelcome.

This has created a very interesting situation for my Shaman Apprentice male Half-Orc (Nature Fang Druid) in which to interact. We are playing the Giant Slayer campaign which, for those of you who aren't familiar, takes place in a mostly human and half-orc population set in an Orc dominated area, and has a lot of giant related quests. It is a challenge to win her trust despite the many times he has stood by her in battle and he can always feel a fleeting pinch in his back whenever she locks gazes with him in the midst of combat, as if he was expecting an arrow in that spot. He enjoys getting under her skin and is overly nice and suave with her, and it appears to be working. He has not intentions of romancing her, just getting her to open up to him and trust him.

We also have a female halfling kineticist that pretty much gets along with anyone, is the hardest hitter of our group, and appears to be the best rounded of all of the party. She and the monk are pretty much inseparable. Her gender preference is 'undecided' but she is one hell of a flirt, with everyone. Our other party member is a Human Ranger (Two handed style with no companion) who was raised by gnomes, oddly enough. His character is oddly reserved and slow to trust but was my character's first successful convert to Gorum's worship and the two are blood brothers now. The ranger played a half-elf magus early but that character did not survive past level 4. He was an interesting one too, the two characters shared a brotherly bond that lead to my character changing his preferred weapon type to better honor his memory.

All in all, I do not think I would be enjoying the game half as much if these struggles were not present. Our characters' responses to a world that does not cater to their race, or other attributes, makes me feel invested and gives me goals other than do the thing, kill the things, save the world, wait for next mission. I can always resort to intimidation if the NPC is being overly hostile and feel completely justified for doing so.

[Rub-Eta]

I use racism, sexism and homophobia in my game, not much, but it's there. Not because I like it or because I am racists, sexist or have problems with people with other preferences than me (because I don't). I use it because I feel like it's too much of a fairy tale and even too comically immersion breaking if there isn't any, or if we actively avoid it at every inch of the game (if anybody has seen the latest season of South Park, I don't want to be one of those PCs, even while I do share some of their views). Sadly, we're also just a bunch of white guys, so it serves as joke material (I know that's not good either, but we do it in a 100% unserious, satirical and critical way and don't mean a word of it, and we're all aware of it. On the flip side, we also make jokes the other way).
I'm not saying that I'm against none-racism, none-sexism and none-homophobia games, I can really see why some prefer it and it's something I'd be willing to try. I would rather play in a game like that, than in a game with even one player who actually think the way I make jokes and simulate idiots. I would neither have a problem with running a game like that if one of my players asked me to, but as I said, we're just a group of white guys so it's not really on our minds the same way (I'm not necessarily saying that it is on the minds of people who aren't white guys, I just suspect that it's more noticeable and/or disturbing from their perspective).

I'm starting Reign of Winter this weekend, the players' characters grew up in the small town of Heldren, south Taldor, where there's much tolerance towards diversity (as writen in the book). So they'll be hit by a hard culture-clash when they get out into the hard, cold (litterly and figuratively) and grim world where people aren't accepting of others. Kindness is a virtue expressed in the original Baba Yaga tale, where the children survive because of it and Baba Yaga fails without it. I figured that the PCs should take the same role as the children in the tale, meaning that they'll have to combat the opposite (racism, etc) with kindness to prosper. That's the way I use racism, sexism and homophobia in my games.

Koujow wrote:

Lord of the Rings is a great example, where working together led to the defeat of Sauron and a new golden age

I wouldn't be a propper nerd if I didn't poke here: One point in Lord of the Rings was that humans where alone, the elves are leaving and the strength of dwarves has waned, it's up to humanity to decide their own fate, as they could have so long ago, when the strength of men failed (it's very biblical, just reading the mythos about Morgoth and Ilúvatar has very strong connections). And the other species/races does very little. While the "hero" (frodo) isn't seen as human to us, hobbits kind of are, much more so than the dwarves and elves (not that they descended from humans, they did but that's besides the point. But they're also like us in their way of life and thinking, where elves and dwarves are very different compared to us humans, something that isn't talked about in the movies at all while very important in the books).

I don't know why anybody thought that it was a good idea, in the movie, to have elves from Lothlórien come to help in Helms Deep, at order from Elrond. Elrond who is the king of a completely different kingdom and has no authority over Lothlórien's elves, let alone to send them to fight a war that is not theirs. I guess it would have been cool if it didn't seem so wrong and out of place to me.

I'm really confused by some people thinking that Tolkien's stories where intentionally racist. The "ugly" cultures are based in biblical sin and evil, not on other real-life cultures. Orcs and the men from Harad do not represent people from other cultures, they're twisted beings of former goodness (elves and men). Even Morgoth, the first evil, started as good. Not only good but as one of the most promissing of the Valar ("new gods"). But he was twisted by his visits to the void, into something unspeakable, showing that evil can spawn anywhere if you're not careful enough and grow too self centred, self righteous, lose touch with reality and the people around you.

EDITED

[Liz Courts]

As with any potentially sensitive topic, it is best to discuss this with your group ahead of time to determine what people are comfortable with.
Also changing the thread title slightly.

[Avaricious]

Dude, I use stereotypes and adapt them to Golarion/Eberron to enhance the world. Fantasy settings are BLAND, no matter how many Genres you can shotgun blast onto the globe. It's up to the DM and Players to infuse it with character, no mundanely recite from the CS/AP.

How do you differentiate urbanites from rural folk? Accents! Habits! Something distinct that sets them apart besides being another character voiced by the DM. I live for moments when my Players drop out of character to go WTF or do a double-take at something/someone.

Adding animosity to a game is personality. Most Half-Orcs live it every day -it's part of the fluff but it's not all cotton candy. Don't sweep it under the rug. Heck, it may motivate your Players to change the world AND run the AP simultaneously rather than just seeking out the next encounter for sweet dropz.

Know your table and get a feel for what they like. Humor between friends most talk is harmless. When Fantasy goes SJW I am hopping back over to D10 40K RPGs where we know its all a grand mummer's farce we are playing in.

Case in point I was a little bummed that my Halflings were a slave-race in Golarion and Gnomes are caricatured to the umpteenth by being neon hyper-fey. Oh well, part of the flavor, run with it or against type. My group was a little disconcerted by my Eberron-transplanted Gnome who was normal tones but perfectly healthy. Did I go on a little person Crusade? #SLM?

Don't apologize for previous systems -it's a discredit against Tolkien and the others. Stand by the work, and acknowledge that values have changed since then -and thank them for helping us discover new worlds and evolve as well. Anything else is just cowardice and blame-shifting.

[Cole Deschain]

Liz Courts wrote:

As with any potentially sensitive topic, it is best to discuss this with your group ahead of time to determine what people are comfortable with.

Quoted for truth.

Some groups I've been with? Nope, nope, ain't happening.

Others, one can sling bigotry left and right, because everybody in those groups agreed that the gloves are off, and the Dwarves have some viciously unkind words to go with the built-in attack bonuses.

But you need to have that talk good and friggin' early.

[Liz Courts]

And when in doubt, leave it out (especially at conventions and public games).

[HWalsh]

And now for some fun Golarion racial slurs!

"Ya green skinned, big eared, rat humper!" (Goblin)

"You pointy eared, toothpick armed, hinge-wrist!" (Elf)

"You stubby legged, goat bearded, rock breaker!" (Dwarf)

"You half blooded abomination!" (Half Elf or Orc)

"You pint-sized, furry footed, sneak thief." (Halfling)

[Rennaivx]

Original post wrote:

I have even seen this in one game, where a white player created an African American character during a world war 2 campaign. Both the GM and another player helped emphasize the mistreatment of African Americans during this period and while the player later admitted that he learned a lot, he stopped playing that character because the situation made him uncomfortable and frequently upset.

Haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but this made me think of our current game. My husband decided he wanted to play a healer in Rise of the Runelords, so he rolled up a cleric, and since, naturally, every healing-focused character ever must be a woman, his cleric was female, the only other one in the party besides my half-orc paladin. (I'm the only female player in the group.) And, of course, male player making a female character? She's hot. (I did a custom mini for her modeled off of Seoni, thigh-high slits and everything.)

Now, especially when taken against the green-skinned woman with tusks, his character caught the eye of a certain nobleman in Sandpoint, whose affections are a plot device. At first, everyone found it humorous (because, you know, very straight male GM flirting with very straight male player). As his attentions grew darker, my husband kept growing more and more uncomfortable, until he ended up rolling a new male character after that part of the adventure was finished. The reroll was because of dissatisfaction with building only for healing, but he considered making the new character female and changed his mind because he "didn't want to deal with it".

Aggressive romantic attentions from NPCs, always being the subject of romance-based character interactions, being pushed into a damsel-in-distress role - all that is potentially uncomfortable, unpleasant, or tiresome? I'd never have guessed. -.- I don't necessarily mind it, and it's nice that I get a chance to help change those perceptions from within (aka face-smashy glaive-wielding paladin as opposed to the life oracle I played last time around). But it was interesting to see everyone's reactions when it wasn't a woman behind the stereotypically pretty and gentle female character. I don't know how much it'll stick with everyone, but hopefully it's helped to give at least a little bit of perspective.

[Draco Bahamut]

I have some racism in my campaing to help build tension, but i had never let it reach a oppressive level, just mild annoying level.
I am roleplaying a Half-Orc Investigator who was a graduated from Lipstadt university in Ustalav, a country who have been invaded by Orcs very recently. I out in my backstory how much racism he had to face, that no one believed a half-orc could have intelligence to graduate and he still done it. No one raised an eyebrown about he being a half-orc the entire campaing. We meet nobles, faculty members, soldiers and if i had done a human there wouldn´t had been any difference in treatment. This got me a little upset that i cound´t roleplay a major plot point of my character, but i can understand that such detour would take spotlight from others campaing major plots. I like characters who face prejudice and overcome it, it´s not allways about realism, it´s about somethings that we do to heal past scars.

[TarkXT]

Everyone understands that racism is quite literally built mechanically into the game right?

[Haladir]

I'm tempted to quote a certain song from Avenue Q...

[Belulzebub]

Haladir wrote:

I'm tempted to quote a certain song from Avenue Q...

"What Do You Do With a BA in English?"

[Irontruth]

Belulzebub wrote:

Haladir wrote:

I'm tempted to quote a certain song from Avenue Q...

"What Do You Do With a BA in English?"

"I'm not Wearing Underwear Today"?

[Degoon Squad]

We are talking about Racism in a game where Orcs are killed on site, Goblins are all thought to be crazy psychopath, and a Demon will be robbed and killed just because?

[Kobold Catgirl]

"The Internet Is For...Cats"? Wait, maybe I need to go watch that scene again, I may have missed a key OH MY GOD CATS AMIRITE?

[Digitalelf]

Degoon Squad wrote:

We are talking about Racism in a game where Orcs are killed on site, Goblins are all thought to be crazy psychopath, and a Demon will be robbed and killed just because?

Kill them because they're evil if you must, but don't you dare hurt their precious feelings by calling them names based upon stereotypes while doing so (because that'd be just mean)! :-P

[Freehold DM]

Digitalelf wrote:

Degoon Squad wrote:

We are talking about Racism in a game where Orcs are killed on site, Goblins are all thought to be crazy psychopath, and a Demon will be robbed and killed just because?

Kill them because they're evil if you must, but don't you dare hurt their precious feelings by calling them names based upon stereotypes while doing so (because that'd be just mean)! :-P

indeed, this is how evil gets a foothold.

[Lemmy]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

"The Internet Is For...Cats"? Wait, maybe I need to go watch that scene again, I may have missed a key OH MY GOD CATS AMIRITE?

Is that... Zoe Quinn? Tsc... I used to respect you, KC. :(

Anyway...

I think racism is an okay addition when it's about non-existing races and whatnot, but it gets old fast if it's human-to-human (or human-to-race-representing-real-world-human-ethnicity) racism. Unless, of course, the game is about social conflict and that kind of thing. Personally, my games tend to avoid that kind of thing in favor of more light-hearted subjects, but to each their own.

OTOH, how can characters enjoy RAP music if they can't sing the slurs? XD

[Degoon Squad]

So is My Barbarian ultra Evil Because he calls Goblins weeds( They are green, multiply fast and about as useful) and his Axe weed Wacker? He has nicknamed the local Orc tribe who ride giant Boars the Bacon Boys, which must really hurt their feelings. Never mind he will not kill non combatants or those who surrender.
Or how about the Orcs who in return call Elves Rabbits( Large ears and about as Brave as Rabbits) Humans Gummers( No visible teeth when mouth is closed and they fight like a toothless old Orcs) and other good races Stunties?

[Kobold Catgirl]

Lemmy wrote:

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

"The Internet Is For...Cats"? Wait, maybe I need to go watch that scene again, I may have missed a key OH MY GOD CATS AMIRITE?

Is that... Zoe Quinn? Tsc... I used to respect you, KC. :(

Man, the feeling is mutual. Seriously, do all the cool people I know on this site have this weird distrust for her? Sad days.

Well, at least we have a book and movie to look forward to. ;)

EDIT: Though it's a little funny to me that we're on a thread where the anti-"political correctness" team seems to be out in force and the way Zoe Quinn came up as a controversial figure was over a cat picture. XD

[Bwang]

Next game after NY, but my players are now coughing up slurs. I have about as many in emails as they've produced since May!

[Coffee Demon]

I must say that I'm super impressed at how mature and informed these posts have been. Every time I come to look in, I expect to see everything exploded into a oppositional disaster after someone has said something terribly ill-informed.

I think it says a lot about the way Paizo moderates the message boards, but it is also a very nice reflection of the people who come in here. Congrats everyone! :)

[Bwang]

The last time Liz made her presence known was to offer saga advice, not delete posts, so I'd agree that the comments have been very high on candor and civility.

[Liz Courts]

Bwang wrote:

The last time Liz made her presence known was to offer saga advice, not delete posts, so I'd agree that the comments have been very high on candor and civility.

I'm trying to lead by example as often as possible when I step in and give my thoughts on these topics.

[Haladir]

I will very occasionally use in-game race-based hostilities or slurs. The people using the slurs are pretty much always the bad guys.

In general, I'll only use in-game slurs that don't have use in actual parlance. (e.g. "slip" for a halfling, "Sczarni" for any Varisian). And, again, only by the bad guys.

I have on one occasion used real-world racial slurs in-game: I once ran a GURPS:Sci-Fi campaign set in the mid-1950s. (The campaign was essentially a pastiche of '50s sci-fi B-movies). At one point, the PCs were in Alabama, and found that the aliens they were investigating were much less of a menace than the KKK. I put some racial slurs into the mouths of the Klansmen the PCs were fighting. While I had been going for verisimilitude, it just felt wrong to actually say real-world racial slurs aloud in my own dining room. I would have never played that way in a public space (this was in a private residence). I stopped doing it after a few minutes because I just didn't feel right saying the words, even in-character by a despicable racist villain.

[Lemmy]

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

Lemmy wrote:

Kobold Cleaver wrote:

"The Internet Is For...Cats"? Wait, maybe I need to go watch that scene again, I may have missed a key OH MY GOD CATS AMIRITE?

Is that... Zoe Quinn? Tsc... I used to respect you, KC. :(

Man, the feeling is mutual. Seriously, do all the cool people I know on this site have this weird distrust for her? Sad days.

Well, at least we have a book and movie to look forward to. ;)

EDIT: Though it's a little funny to me that we're on a thread where the anti-"political correctness" team seems to be out in force and the way Zoe Quinn came up as a controversial figure was over a cat picture. XD

Well... I tend to distrust shamelessly dishonest people... But I'll leave at that. This is not the thread for that discussion...

[Derek Dalton]

In two different game systems elves and dwarves hated each other. In one they explained rather well why. In that game it made sense for an elf and dwarf to hate one another. In older editions of D&D they had a chart of which races hated each other and which got along. Even in the later editions that chart still applied even though it was never reprinted. I like the fact Pazio pretty much got rid of it. Now they do have racism just not like they once did. Half Orcs are often viewed with a mixture of disgust, pity or hatred because of their heritage and how many were created. Tieflings fall into that same category. Half elves are viewed by elves with those same feelings and in some cases humans view them that way as well. In these cases it adds to a character not that Pazio is a racist company.
Now had a player who played racist. He usually did it to mess with me mostly. In this case he was just being a jerk not that he really was racist. In adventures and home grown campaigns you can have racist people without even being racist yourself. Town has been ravaged by elves as a result they hate elves.
Now insulting players by being racist just ruins the game and friendships. It's one thing to insult your friend jokingly about his lack of hair for instance if he actually doesn't mind. It's another to call say a black friend the N word.