Was mulling this question over while I was building some NPCs, How many coins can you fit in the standard backpack?
Assuming the standard backpack space of 2 cubic feet and that all coinage in golarion/your standard setting are the same size and weight (all of them are 50 to a pound) how many could you fill a bag with?
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Assuming pathfinder coins are the size of a U.S. dime; 1 coin is 340 cmm. 2 cubic feet is roughly 56.6 million cubic millimeters. So 166,470 dimes could fit melted. In whole form, packing statistics for coins max out around 91% of space consumed. So that would be 151,500 coins. Roughly.
Also, your backpack now weighs 1.5 tons.
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We can improve a bit on that estimate by working off of the density of a particular coin to find its volume, since we know that each of the coins weighs 0.02 pounds, or about 9.071847 grams.
Gold: about 109,748 coins
9.071847 g / 19.32g/cm3 = 0.46955729813 cm3 = 469.55729813 mm3
56,630,000 mm3 / 469.55729813 mm3/coin = 120602.959906 coins
120602.959906 coins x 0.91 for packing efficiency = 109748.693514 coins
Silver: about 59,589 coins
9.071847 g / 10.49g/cm3 = 0.86480905624 cm3 = 864.80905624 mm3
56,630,000 mm3 / 864.80905624 mm3/coin = 65482.6630126 coins
65482.6630126 coins x 0.91 for packing efficiency = 59589.2233415 coins
Copper: about 50,897 coins
9.071847 g / 8.96g/cm3 = 1.01248292411 cm3 = 1012.48292411 mm3
56,630,000 mm3 / 1012.48292411 mm3/coin = 55931.8074917 coins
55931.8074917 coins x 0.91 for packing efficiency = 50897.9448174
Most coins from old, are more the size of quarters.
I suspect in old days (as is today), coins of certain types are not 100% of the material. So Gold coins are probably not solid gold. Likewise for copper and silver.
Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Quarters would be the smaller ones, right? More of them would be closer to the 'old' silver dollars and half-dollars and such, right?
50 silver coins = 1 lb
1lbs = 453.592 grams
453.592 grams/50coins = 9.07grams per coin
A US silver quarter weighs 6.25grams (90% silver, 10% copper)
A US silver half-dollar weighs 12.5grams (as above)
So a silver coin is somewhere in size between a quarter and a half dollar.
Volume of a US quarter is 808.53 mm3.
9.07/6.25=1.4512 (A silver coin is 145.12% larger than a quarter)
808.53*1.4512=1173.34mm3
A backpack can hold 2 cubic feet of material. Link
2 cubic feet = 56633693.188392 mm3.
56633693.18/1173.34=48267
So you can fit 48,267 silver coins in a common backpack
48267/50=965lbs.
1. You are using data for a type of quarter that hasn't been in production since 1964. Modern quarters are 91.66% copper, 8.33% nickel, and have a weight of 5.670 grams and a volume of 808.93 mm3, if my data is accurate.
2. You cannot simply increase the volume in proportion to the difference in the weight of the coin, because the density of a quarter (just about 7 g/cm3) is different from the density of a coin made from actual silver (10.49 g/cm3).
3. I hope you like to carry around melted coins, because you didn't account at all for packing inefficiency.
Edit: Incidentally, there's a faulty assumption in the OP. In pathfinder, gold, silver, and copper coins are not all the same size. They are the same weight, but are made of different materials and therefore have different densities. Silver coins are almost twice as large as gold ones, and copper coins are larger still.
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Quarter dimensions was off
-Diameter 24.26 mm
-Thickness 1.75 mm
-Volume 808.93 mm3 (π × r² × h)
1) Ancient silver coins ranged in purity from just above 90% in the beginning of the first century all the way down to 5% at the end of the 3rd century. The only silver coin that was mass produced above 90% was by the US in 1985. It was 99.9% silver and could never be used in circulation because it was so easily damaged (it was collector coins).
So figuring that the coins pathfinder uses are 90% silver is much more reasonable than using a 100% silver coin (since 100% silver coins couldn't be used in daily transactions without losing their value).
2) Ok lets find the volume of of a 9.07g coin. We know that a 90% silver coin is 6.25g and its volume is 808.93, so its .00773 grams per cubic mm.
So a 9.07 coin at .00773g/mm3 would fill 1172.9 mm3.
Backpack holds 56633693.18 mm3.
56633693.18/1172.9=48,285 coin (I was off by 18 coins)
3) I pack very efficiently, thank you. For those who don't, feel free to subtract 5-10% if makes you feel better
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nickel 688.3 cubic mm
dime 339.7 cubic mm
90% Gold coin = 522 cubic mm (.018lbs gold, .002lbs copper)
100% Copper coin = 1015 cubic mm
56633693/522=108,493 (2,169lbs)
56633693/1015=55,796 (1,115lbs)
Volume to weight converter
Pathfinder coins don't work that way: they get their value purely from the substance they're made out of. You can tell this because if you melt down a silver piece made of pure silver, it is still worth exactly the same amount as a trade good. In other words, a silver piece and a chunk of silver weighing the same amount as a silver piece are worth exactly the same, so it seems clear that the value of the piece comes from the silver alone.
Avoron wrote: Pathfinder coins don't work that way
In other words, a silver piece and a chunk of silver weighing the same amount as a silver piece are worth exactly the same, so it seems clear that the value of the piece comes from the silver alone.
Clear to some. I'm fine with this being a true statement.
It isn't a rule and is never detailed.
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Fair enough. The moment you start asking questions like "How many coins fit in a backpack?" is the moment where you stop finding your answers written out explicitly in the rules.
Well, the reasons people made coins is so they could 'stand in' for precious metals. By using base metals to dilute the coin, you could 'magnify' what the precious metal backing the coins actually represented.
In PF, it doesn't matter what the coinage derivation is, its worth 1 sp or gp. That means that the intrinsic value of the coin itself is worth the 1 gp, not the 'representative value', which would vary by mint. Since they don't talk about weight, it could be entirely possible that coin sizes vary TREMENDOUSLY just within metal types, but in alll cases, 'intrinsic value' and approximate weight end up the same.
Coinage size thus can vary quite a bit to get to the same level. But weight and value are always going to be at accepted levels.
So, there's a LOT more precious metal around in Golarion then on earth.
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I expect that magic is responsible for the constancy level of the coinage, if the economy were realistic. The simple reason is that "500 gp of resources" is only valid if 500 gp is a 'fixed' number. In other words, if you assume that raw gold is useful as a magical component, and other items are usable as magical components, they would have a 'use figure' expressed in how much gold they sub for.
This number would basically be an absolute number, totally ignoring inflation. the ratio of silver to gold in this number is fixed...so ten silver replaces one gold, and this is an absolute number as well. It is this constancy which keeps the value of the metals in their relative positions. The only way it would change would be if some greater demand came around (For instance, if for Psionic Crafting silver were more useful then gold), in which case absolute values would change as market arbitrage took over (everyone would sell silver to Psionic Crafters, and gold to Magic crafters).
Regardless, that means that a 'silver peice' is an absolute fixed value, and 'representative value' is going to have a hard sell. Unless paper money could absolute and easily be exchanged for real precious metal, spellcasters would never want to use it, since it couldn't be converted into magical items. Merchants wouldn't care, but anyone who could use magic would.
So, magic item crafters are setting the scale. It doesn't allow material deviation of the VALUE of each coin, and that is keeping the weight nearly identical from coin to coin. Size and construction of coin could vary tremendously, however...imagine wide, thin disks with intricate detailing, vs straight small cubes, vs standard coins, vs triangle shaped, or ovals, or beads with holes in them. Regardless, all will be about the same weight and value, but size and form could definitely shift.
==Aelryinth
I agree with almost everything you're saying, but I'd just like to point out that as long as the weight and density of the coins remain the same, they must all be roughly equal in volume - although they can be formed into whatever crazy shapes happen to entertain the GM.
Quote: Most coins from old, are more the size of quarters. Dunno, but pathfinder ones are definitely slightly larger than dimes only, for gold at least. (Silver and copper closer to this, see below)
50 coins = 1 lb, so 0.02 lbs = 9.07g = 477mm^3, or slightly more voluminous than a U.S. dime, not as big as a nickel.
Quote: It could be entirely possible that coin sizes vary TREMENDOUSLY just within metal types Only by the relative metal density, and we know exactly what that is, and it will be identical ratios in all countries. A sp is 1.84x bigger than a gp, so it is 879mm^3, so it is a little bit larger than a U.S. quarter.
A cp is 1.17x bigger than a sp, or 1,029mm^3, roughly as much volume as two nickels together.
Unless you meant shape, as in thinner but bigger, etc. if so yes.
Crimeo wrote: 50 coins = 1 lb, so 0.02 lbs = 9.07g = 477mm^3, or slightly more voluminous than a U.S. dime, not as big as a nickel. How are you getting volume from a weight? Different material has different densities.
James Risner wrote: Crimeo wrote: 50 coins = 1 lb, so 0.02 lbs = 9.07g = 477mm^3, or slightly more voluminous than a U.S. dime, not as big as a nickel. How are you getting volume from a weight? Different material has different densities. That's for gold pieces. The bottom portion of the same post has the calculations for silver (~quarter sized) and copper (~2 nickels glued together sized)
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