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I'm interested in taking the Mesmerist class for a spin, but there was one twist I wanted to throw in there. I want her to wield a greatsword in battle. I know there's the Vexing Daredevil archetype that grants you an automatic Weapon Proficiency feat for free, but I'm not sure how effective it is compared to a vanilla Mesmerist who just takes MWP at first level. Any advice?
The vexing daredevil will likely serve much better than a standard mesmerist for a swordsman, as it leaves you all your feats, provides useful combat abilities, and further enhances the mesmerists capacity to take his social/occult powers and smack folk with them.
You could craft a viable mesmerist swordsman without the archetype, but I bet 20/1 that vexing daredevil will make for a mechanically better option.
That said, feasts like Combat Expertise and ever more so, Improved Feint and its related tree will serve a vexing daredevil very very well.
You could always do a half-elf with Ancestral Arms, or a half-elf with a great are instead.
I agree with Beernorg. If you have a single, specific weapon in mind, blowing your first level feat to pick up MWP would be overkill. There are racial traits that allow you to pick up weapon proficiencies (Ancestral Arms), as well, if you wanted to stick with the base Mesmerist class.
If you want to specifically be better at melee combat, the Vexing Daredevil is a great archetype. They lean a tiny bit towards being Dex-based in concept, with Acrobatics as a class skill, and a Dazzling Feint class ability that improves it, but a STR-based build is just as viable.
If you really wanted to be more martially-oriented, a 1-level dip in a Martial class could net you increased armor and weapon proficiencies (which you can use without penalty as a Psychic caster), and additional Feats or class abilities. Fighter, Cavalier, and even Paladin could work if you want Heavy Armor. The Slayer would give you MWP and the Studied Target ability.
elven curve blade Dex based feint specialist vexing daredevil sounds "bad ass" to me, now I am intrigued, and need to play with this too, GAHH too many characters! LOL
2-level dip Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)/Vexing Daredevil. Heavy armor, MWP, Smite, +CHA to all saves and to Will twice (!!!), plus Painful stare abilities. >:)
Are you sure about greatsword? Because the best option I know for this job has access to falchions and longswords. So you could certainly make do as a swordsman with those.
Anyway- one of the best options for a melee mesmerist (that isn't the vexing archetype- I understand, it has a strong flavor and might present problems) would be to go Half Orc.
Half Orcs have a favored class bonus that gives them an extra 1/2 point to painful stare. That is an extra 10 points, which can be added onto the already impressive 9d6+10 after instense pain. That is 9d6+20 (or 51.5 extra damage on your hit- a nice chunk of damage; not pouncing barbarian, but enough that you have options that can sovle problems, along with spells, tricks, and skills)
Half orcs also get falcions and great axes, or if you prefer, a longsword via an alternate racial trait. Falchions should be fine (high crit equivilant of greatsword), but you might prefer longsword for the style (I like the idea of a gentleman half orc in a class made up of liars- very easy RP potential)
Build wise- Grab toughness, since you will be squishy without favored class bonus to health. A good approach would be to go with furious focus (because removing power attack penalties from your first attack is FANTASTIC when you are a 1 big hit build). This kind of 2 hander with a nice big hit is probably the best approach to a melee mesmerist due to that, really.
Maybe grab armor expert trait so that you can grab a mithral breastplate to boost your AC.
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+CHA to all saves and to Will twice
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That WAS something I was concerned with. As to the questions of specifics, my plan is to play this character in the Serpent's Skull adventure path. One of the plot elements of that campaign is "Mental Strength vs. Physical Strength" and I thought a character like this could represent a unique blend of the two. I'm also interested in modeling her after Savith, the heroine who set Serpent's Skull's plot in motion, and she's referenced in Occult Realms as a new spirit for the Medium class, and the bonus feats she provides such a character revolve around using a greatsword. As for why I'm ignoring using her spirit itself by playing something BESIDES a medium is because 1) while Savith kicked off Serpent's Skull's plot, she doesnt directly make an appearance in the campaign unless the GM adds a new story arc at the end, and 2) because I like the irony of being a hypnosis user fighting snake creatures, given how things like legends and cartoons have given snakes the ability to hypnotize potential prey.
As for race, I'm hoping to go human, specifically Chelaxian, as another plot factor in Serpent's Skull is "Colonialism vs. Integration" with the former Chelish colony of Sargava contrasted with the wild and dangerous beauty of the Mwangi Expanse, and the Chelaxians pride themselves as heirs of Azlant, Savith's homeland. This character would be a way to explore these ideas, unlearning the imperialistic ideals she learned as kid and that deeds like Savith's heroism matter more than Savith's Azlanti blood.
In a hilarious twist, for vermin and oozes anyway, if you happen to cast foxes cunning on them, they are no longer immune to mind effects as it removes the mindless quality.
"I am giving them a mind, so I can then dominate it, what? Sop looking at me like that!"
nameless and slightly unbalanced mesmerist
As for race, I'm hoping to go human, specifically Chelaxian, as another plot factor in Serpent's Skull is "Colonialism vs. Integration" with the former Chelish colony of Sargava contrasted with the wild and dangerous beauty of the Mwangi Expanse, and the Chelaxians pride themselves as heirs of Azlant, Savith's homeland. This character would be a way to explore these ideas, unlearning the imperialistic ideals she learned as kid and that deeds like Savith's heroism matter more than Savith's Azlanti blood.
I will not that a half orc might fit into that well though.
I mean... mwangi is the Africa stand in, Cheliax is both highly imperialistic and a slave empire...And you have this lovely little bit from orcs of golarion about half orcs of Mwangi:
Rainkin are valued as guardians and property alike, and face a heavy burden of responsibility.
So you could, for instance, have a half orc that is disguising his ancestry (playing the role of a young noble) coming to terms with the treatment of half orcs in a different context and their own self identity.
But I'll admit- I am biased with this discussion, since your scenario is getting me on a brain storming session for a character I had in the backburner.
"I am giving them a mind, so I can then dominate it, what? Sop looking at me like that!"
"I am giving it a mind so that it may know PAIN AND FEAR"
Actually, the Mesmerizing Feint and Greater Mesmerizing Feint Feats (both in Occult Adventures) will allow Mesmerists to Feint against Mindless Creatures who are subject to their Mesmerizing Stare.
Which means that a Human might not be a bad pick, for the bonus feat.
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Actually, the Mesmerizing Feint and Greater Mesmerizing Feint Feats (both in Occult Adventures) will allow Mesmerists to Feint against Mindless Creatures who are subject to their Mesmerizing Stare.
Which means that a Human might not be a bad pick, for the bonus feat.
Mesmerizing Stare is a mind effecting ability. How can a mindless creature be under its effects?
One of the stare abilities is specific to the mindless or immune creature types, though there is only a 50% chance each round that the effect works while stare is used against it. Reads as follows:
Psychic Inception: The hypnotic stare and its penalty can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects (such as an undead or vermin). The mesmerist can also partially affect such a creature with his mind-affecting spells and abilities if it's under the effect of his hypnotic stare; it gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw (if any), and if affected, it still has a 50% chance each round of ignoring the effect. Ignoring the effect doesn't end the effect, but does allow the creature to act normally for that round.
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One of the stare abilities is specific to the mindless or immune creature types, though there is only a 50% chance each round that the effect works while stare is used against it. Reads as follows:
Psychic Inception: The hypnotic stare and its penalty can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects (such as an undead or vermin). The mesmerist can also partially affect such a creature with his mind-affecting spells and abilities if it's under the effect of his hypnotic stare; it gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw (if any), and if affected, it still has a 50% chance each round of ignoring the effect. Ignoring the effect doesn't end the effect, but does allow the creature to act normally for that round.
Psychic Inception is a Bold Stare ability. Vexing Daredevil trades out Bold Stare and can never take it.
Mesmerists in general can effect mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects. It's the Vexing Daredevil that can't.
One of the stare abilities is specific to the mindless or immune creature types, though there is only a 50% chance each round that the effect works while stare is used against it. Reads as follows:
Psychic Inception: The hypnotic stare and its penalty can affect creatures that are mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects (such as an undead or vermin). The mesmerist can also partially affect such a creature with his mind-affecting spells and abilities if it's under the effect of his hypnotic stare; it gains a +2 bonus on its saving throw (if any), and if affected, it still has a 50% chance each round of ignoring the effect. Ignoring the effect doesn't end the effect, but does allow the creature to act normally for that round.
Psychic Inception is a Bold Stare ability. Vexing Daredevil trades out Bold Stare and can never take it.
Mesmerists in general can effect mindless or immune to mind-affecting effects. It's the Vexing Daredevil that can't.
And thus why Archpaladin Zousha might be reluctant to take Vexing Daredevil.
That, and the bold stare that debuffs enemy spell DCs. Both are huge quality of life boosters for a class heavily reliant on will saves.
EDIT- maybe you can just have to have the hypnotic stare aimed at the creature, and it doesn't have to actually work. I mean... they did stick a feat like greater mesmerizing feint onto vexing daredevil, so you might wnat to use the interpretation that makes it actually... work. But yes- that is a reason to avoid the archetype- mental gymnastics may be required.
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Hmm...dipping looks okay...I don't plan on using rule minds since its ethically icky anyway...not doing paladin, though. I know it's good, (like it is for almost ANY Charisma-centered class), but I'm going more for a character who starts out, at best, disdainful of others and outright mean at worst becoming more brave and honorable as she adventures.
Yep, very true, just provided that bit for clarification (some asked)
Generally looks like Improved Feint becomes your replacement for Bold Stare in essence when going vexing daredevil, dunno if that trade is worth it or not, I can see good and bad there, tough one.
EDIT- maybe you can just have to have the hypnotic stare aimed at the creature, and it doesn't have to actually work. I mean... they did stick a feat like greater mesmerizing feint onto vexing daredevil, so you might wnat to use the interpretation that makes it actually... work. But yes- that is a reason to avoid the archetype- mental gymnastics may be required.
This is my interpretation as well. Says nothing that the enemy needs to be suffering from the effects, only that it must be the subject.
This is my interpretation as well. Says nothing that the enemy needs to be suffering from the effects, only that it must be the subject.
EDIT- maybe you can just have to have the hypnotic stare aimed at the creature, and it doesn't have to actually work. I mean... they did stick a feat like greater mesmerizing feint onto vexing daredevil, so you might wnat to use the interpretation that makes it actually... work. But yes- that is a reason to avoid the archetype- mental gymnastics may be required.
It makes sense...but it is wonky enough and requires enough leaps that it feels...dirty. And table variation, of course.
again- explicitly allowing your will save heavy spell list to work on mindless creatures, adn to debuff spellcasters...that seems like reason enough to not go vexing a lot of the time. The confusion over mechanics just further solidifies it.
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Plus, because vermin and oozes are only immune normally due to the mindless condition, there is an actual offensive use for a wand of foxes cunning, LOL. (I laughed like a madman when this nasty trick popped into my head)