Inquiry about unchained rogue's finesse training (Ex) ability.


Rules Questions


Maybe it's obvious or I did miss it somewhere, but I must ask: do the same strength mechanics apply in the case of a two handed finesse weapon (x1.5 dex bonus to dmg) and in an off hand attack (x0.5 dex bonus to dmg)?.


yes - personally I think it's stupid they do, but yes


Yes. See FAQ


I saw the 'deadly agility' feat in the Path of War section at d20pfrsd.com and I was hoping it worked the same. It would have been excellent for two weapon finesse fighters but, well, a pity. Thank you guys.


Why should dex get full damage to off-hand when strength doesn't?

The only thing that I don't agree with Paizo on is that you can't use double slice to bring it up to full dex damage instead of only half.

Scarab Sages

Yeah, but double slice is a terrible feat anyway. It's only use is to unlock two weapon rend, which isn't that great for an unchained rogue anyway. It really just frees up a feat that you can use for the two weapon feint tree.


I mean, it's an okay feat for rangers since they can ignore dex prereqs and just roll with a high strength.


Would it apply the x1.5 dex bonus to dmg if I wield a Rapier with two hands? Seems a bit silly.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I do not believe so. You could use an Estoc for that.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Starfinder Society Subscriber
Xuchilbara wrote:
Would it apply the x1.5 dex bonus to dmg if I wield a Rapier with two hands? Seems a bit silly.

You can't get 1.5x Str with a rapier, so you can't get 1.5x Dex either

Scarab Sages

Without class abilities or feats that allow non finesse weapons to be finessed, Estoc, Elven Curve Blade, Elven Branch Spear, Spiked Chain, Aldori Dueling Sword, and Bladed Scarf are the weapons that can be two handed with finesse training for 1.5 dex to damage.


Fighter’s Finesse [weapon masters handbook] will open up a whole weapon group to the Weapon Finesse feat even if they cannot normally be used with it. That of course requires 5 levels of Fighter, so at a minimum you're looking at an 8th level charatcer to use dex with non-finesse weapons [5 fighter and 3 unchained rogue].

So if someone wanted to use dex for hit and 1.5 dex damage with a orc skull ram or a nodachi they could.

Scarab Sages

They can also finesse a nodachi with spear dancing style.


If I have at least 13 str, I could pick power attack, use it with an elven curve blade and deal 3 additional dmg instead of 2 for being a two handed weapon, even if I'm using my dex for regular weapon damage, right?. Would it work with any other feat that has power attack as a prerequisite?. And, more importantlty, would it be advisable?

Scarab Sages

Xuchilbara wrote:
If I have at least 13 str, I could pick power attack, use it with an elven curve blade and deal 3 additional dmg instead of 2 for being a two handed weapon, even if I'm using my dex for regular weapon damage, right?. Would it work with any other feat that has power attack as a prerequisite?. And, more importantlty, would it be advisable?

Yes, that is correct. It's part of why the ECB was good for dex builds even before they were options for dex to damage. There is also an advanced weapon training for fighters that use dex to hit and Str to damage, it allows them to apply double weapon training to damage.


Imbicatus wrote:
They can also finesse a nodachi with spear dancing style.

Ah, true. I overlooked that. If you use a human and use your 2nd level talent for a combat feat, I think you can manage it with a single class unchained rogue.

1st Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus [Adoptive Parentage, tengu], Weapon Finesse [bonus feat]
2nd Combat Trick [Spear Dancing Style]
3rd Spear Dancing Spiral

Makes a perfect Tian rogue with a BIG 'sword'. It sure isn't a typical thief.

Scarab Sages

graystone wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
They can also finesse a nodachi with spear dancing style.

Ah, true. I overlooked that. If you use a human and use your 2nd level talent for a combat feat, I think you can manage it with a single class unchained rogue.

1st Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus [Adoptive Parentage, tengu], Weapon Finesse [bonus feat]
2nd Combat Trick [Spear Dancing Style]
3rd Spear Dancing Spiral

Makes a perfect Tian rogue with a BIG 'sword'. It sure isn't a typical thief.

How are you getting proficeny? You could use a longspear, but not a nodachi.


A trait would work.


Paulicus wrote:
A trait would work.

Heirloom weapon but you would need a masterwork transformation if you ever want it to be magical.


Heirloom Weapon or Swashbuckler archetype.

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