I'm playing a magus in a current campaign. I'm going the celestial armor & high dex route currently. I'm not trying to stack AC here, I get that I cannot and I understand the rules on it. If you try to tell me I can stack the AC then I'll be surprised though and I expect a citation. Haha.
My question isn't specifically about Celestial Armor AND Quilted Cloth, its basically just quilted cloth, but that's what I'm using so I figured I'd ask about it to be specific.
This +3 chainmail is so fine and light that it can be worn under normal clothing without betraying its presence.
This enhanced form of padded armor has internal layers specifically designed to trap arrows, bolts, darts, shuriken, thrown daggers, and other small ranged piercing weapons. When these kinds of weapons strike you, they tend to become snagged in these layers and fail to harm you.
Benefit: You gain DR 3/— against attacks of this kind (small piercing weapons). The special layers of the armor have no effect on other kinds of weapons
Here is the relevant bits of each.
My question is can you wear quilted cloth with another armor? Obviously I really only care about the DR 3/- from the quilted cloth. I am assuming if I can combine them, then I'd take the higher armor bonus, the lesser dex bonus, the worse ACP, and worse arcane spell failure or even combine them maybe?(which doesn't matter for magus spells cause I'm a magus). And possibly some added penalties to heat exhaustion based checks and the like? I'm not sure on this either though.
By RAW, is stacking these an option? I feel like I've seen before people mentioning it. But I cannot seem to locate it. And a search here doesn't find anything aside from a mildly heated debate about quilted cloth and bullets (which I don't care about). I think I saw wearing it with another armor in a guide or two before, but I can't recall which or the reasoning they had for stacking them.
If I cannot wear it with "any other armor," then can I wear it over my celestial armor? Since celestial armor can be worn under clothes and Quilted cloth is basically "thick clothes."
Thank you all,
Edit: regardless of the answer, yes or no, I'd love a citation if at all possible that way I can take it to the GM. While mass opinions are helpful, I don't foresee this question generating a very big response. So rules would benefit the most here either way.
Cameron
I'm sorry for giving you my opinion here, but I don't think there are any relevant rules for your problem. As Zhayne says in the thread, there is no armor slot.
You could try to use the optional rules for armor as KainPen suggested for clues as to how wearing multiple armors would work, but I think you will have to work this out with your GM.
*****
Anyway.
Armor doesn't stack.
ACP and ASFC does.
*****Opinion Alert*****
Maximum dex should be the lowest of the two. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Special abilities of the armor should only be usuable if logical (as in examples like yours).
Two light armors should be treated as one medium armor for movement hampering. (You are still using light armor proficiency.)
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Personally, I'd say that you can't wear two full sets of armor at the same time unless they are designed to be worn together. Quilted cloth isn't just an undershirt - it's 15 pounds of padding and layers. It's like wearing a thin mattress. Your celestial armor won't fit over it, and vice versa is just as bad.
I'm not sure there is an actual rules citation addressing wearing two full suits of armor at once.
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I'd follow the guidlines for an Armored Coat in this situation.
If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those of armor, clothing, or items worn on top.
If the only magic/special effects that are active are the ones for the armor on top, the only thing the quilted cloth would do for you is add encumbrance and possibly an armor check penalty.
If I stacked the two then it would be quilted cloth over the celestial armor. So using armored coat guidelines would give dr 3/- for small piercing weapons. And then I'd take the better AC and the worse everything else. Which isn't bad. If magic effects that apply are those of the item on top means even +1 to +5 enchantments too then it'd be a bad trade overall and wouldn't be worth it later when enchantments become even more prevalent.
And I do like the suggestion about the two light armors would be medium for movement hampering. But the armor coat doesn't even mention wearing it over armor increasing the armor to medium or heavy, so that wouldn't really work too well.
I noticed the comment about not having an "armor" slot before too. That's what prompted my question even more so. Cause if there was a slot then I think that's even more clear proof that you can't wear multiple cause that's how rules work for body slots.
Also, opinions are more than welcome here as well. I didn't mean don't share them. I just meant that everyone has one and the main part of the question here is what do the rules say about it, not what we think should happen. I personally think that logically, I would wear the quilted cloth over my chain for the added bonus of the slight DR. And that technically by physics that'd slow hits and hinder them even further and so they AC "SHOULD" stack. But I understand why they don't and I'm not trying to fight any of that. This is Pathfinder after all, not Physics and definitely not even real life haha.
Edit:
Here is a relevant thread
This actually seems to suggest that by raw you could do it and it'd work just fine because the lack of a specific armor slot. But I assumed that was wrong. Especially after I read the whole thread and saw the last post.
The brooch only transforms if the wearer's armor slot is unoccupied, thus it won't work if the wearer is already armored.
Based on this specific armor, there is an armor slot though. Which contradicts what was said in a previous post and the above linked thread and does hint at only 1 armor being able to be worn at a time. If only being able to wear 1 at a time was not the case, then I think this would have had language very similar to that of the armored coat quoted above.
@C4M3R0N: You missed a key bit:
If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those of armor, clothing, or items worn on top.If the only magic/special effects that are active are the ones for the armor on top, the only thing the quilted cloth would do for you is add encumbrance and possibly an armor check penalty.
Do you want your +3 Celestial enchant or your DR 3/- enchant?
/cevah
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@C4M3R0N: You missed a key bit:
If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those of armor, clothing, or items worn on top.If the only magic/special effects that are active are the ones for the armor on top, the only thing the quilted cloth would do for you is add encumbrance and possibly an armor check penalty.
Do you want your +3 Celestial enchant or your DR 3/- enchant?
/cevah
Er, the quilted armor DR 3/- isn't a magic effect, it's a nonmagical property of the armor. That's why this is even a question. Btw, if you're wondering how DR 3/- is even remotely balanced on a suit of 100 gp light armor, it only applies to basically arrows, bolts, and shuriken. I'd also argue that the balance intent is that you are taking the terrible armor bonus that goes with it (+1) and that it certainly wasn't intended to be an "Add-on" for free DR with other armor types.
Yeah a lot of the question is based on the DR being non-magical. And if the rules were used for the armored coat then yeah I figured I'd lose the armor enchantments and such that aren't on top. Which makes it not worth it unless you could wear the quilted cloth under the celestial armor. But seeing how the celestial armor can be worn under clothes, it seems a touch silly to think it could be worn over them as well. Especially over a quilted cloth (which as someone previously pointed out is like wearing a thin mattress, personally I think it's like wearing two or more quilts, but either interpretation leads to roughly the same result. That being you cannot wear it under things.)
Thanks for all of the comments though! I'm currently under the impression that stacking quilted cloth only works if under an armored coat now. I'll run this all by the GM to see his opinion though. But currently, there aren't any rules that have come to light that seem to say this would work to stack the cloth with other armors aside from an armored coat.
Cameron
stuffEr, the quilted armor DR 3/- isn't a magic effect, it's a nonmagical property of the armor. That's why this is even a question. Btw, if you're wondering how DR 3/- is even remotely balanced on a suit of 100 gp light armor, it only applies to basically arrows, bolts, and shuriken. I'd also argue that the balance intent is that you are taking the terrible armor bonus that goes with it (+1) and that it certainly wasn't intended to be an "Add-on" for free DR with other armor types.
Oops. I misread "Enhanced" as "Enchanted". :-/
I would allow the quilted armor over the celestial & benefit from celestial & DR 3/-.
/cevah
/ryic Er, the quilted armor DR 3/- isn't a magic effect, it's a nonmagical property of the armor. That's why this is even a question. Btw, if you're wondering how DR 3/- is even remotely balanced on a suit of 100 gp light armor, it only applies to basically arrows, bolts, and shuriken. I'd also argue that the balance intent is that you are taking the terrible armor bonus that goes with it (+1) and that it certainly wasn't intended to be an "Add-on" for free DR with other armor types.
I know that looking at historical use of armor and weapons rarely has anything to do with the pathfinder system, but since youre talking about the intention of quilted cloth armor i thought i'd link this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambeson
cloth armor was definitley intended to be an arrow catching layer underneath metal armors. buuuuuut whether that has anything to do with the pathfinder intention i don't know
Yeah I think I'm just gonna run it by the great GM and see his opinion on it all. He's pretty lenient and understanding. But I don't want to wreck the game here with everyone and everything with a decent int score and 100 gold packing on DR 3/- against most ranged attacks. But then again, that 100 gold price tag and extra penalties will probably stop moat things from getting it. Unless they make it darkleaf or something to avoid the penalties. But that ups the cost even more. Maybe it'll be balanced fine haha