Making an Kitsune Mesmerist-Need advice.


Advice


I want to make a kitsune Mesmerist that is a spellcaster and party face starting at first level with a 25 point build. What should my starting stats be? I want to have a few magical tail feats. And I want to take the craft wondrous item feat. I also want the Kitsune's Realistic Likeness feat. Do I want to take the craft wand feat? I am thinking to make some wands that use the new crafting rules that make the wands useable 3 times a day?

Here is a list of Feats I am deciding on taking. I have not decided on the order to take them.

Realistic Likeness
Craft wondrous item
Magical tails (number not decided?)
Spell Focus Enchantment
Greater Spell Focus Enchantment
Intense Pain
Improved Initiative
Craft wands

What spells are full of awesomesauce that I need to take?
What are some of your suggestions?
I love crafting things. And I want to make a bunch of Kitsune star gems.

Dark Archive

If you want to have Magic Tail Feats, have you considered being an Oracle or Sorcerer instead of a Mesmerist? I ask because Magic Tail is generally considered to be a poor feat investment unless you either A) Get a lot of bonus-feats in class, such as through being a fighter or B) Get the feats "for free." This is generally because magic tail feats, while nice, contribute little to a character beyond flavor. Martial characters are generally made to maximize damage, and maximizing damage can often be very feat intensive(There is a reason fighters get piles of feats, after all.) Thus, for all martials but fighters(who have the feats to play with thanks to getting so many bonus-feats in-class), spending feats on magic tail is generally considered an inferior choice when they could be instead spending them on things that help them accomplish their primary goal(s)(which is almost always to deal damage. I say almost always because their are fringe cases of things like intimidate-focused martial debuffers, but those are, as stated, a rare fringe case)

Casters, by comparison, are much less feat-intensive than martial characters. While a martial character's damage dealing often requires an expenditure of at bare minimum one feat(Power attack, for str-types), you could theoretically have a spellcaster with 0 feats and they would still be able to contribute to a party. Thus, magic tail seams like a bit of a better deal for a spellcaster but, in reality, it's not. Reason? Most casters can already cast all the spells Magic Tail provides, meaning that each magic tail feat is essentially just giving them 1-2 extra uses of a spell they can already cast per-day. Now, unlike martials, which often get bonus-feats in-class due to the more feat-intensive nature of most martial builds, almost all spellcaster classes are stuck solely with the feats they gain from leveling.(In fact, the ONLY caster to get bonus feats of any kind is the wizard). Thus, casters tend to be extremely limited in their feats; they are a precious resource for them, and as a result, every feat should be something thats working towards the goal of your character build. As a caster, your feats are rare and precious, too rare and precious to be spending them on being able to cast a handfull of spells you can already cast normally a few more times per-day. When looked at through that lenses Magc Tail feats are just as much a bad deal for casters as they are for most martials.....unless you pick at least some of them up for free.

Thankfully, there is two ways for spellcasting characters to pick up magic tail feats for free. The first is a trait from the Dirty Tactics Toolbox called Nine-Tailed Scion. This trait gives you +1 CL to your spell-like abilities and allows you to take Magic Tail Feats whenever you would gain either a combat feat or Bloodline Feat as a bonus feat from your class. So this, essentially, gives a sorcerer Kitsune -three- out of the eight magic tail feats for free as long as you single class as sorcerer(which you should as a Kitsune to make maximum abuse of the AWESOME Kitsune favored class bonus for a sorcerer.) However, while you get three for free, you still need 5(or was it 6?) other feats to become a full Kyuubi, which still eats into your feats in a big way. Even further, Sorcerers get a pitiful 2+ Int skill points, which means unless your taking the Sage wildblooded archetype for the Arcane Bloodline to become an int-based caster and take some way to make social skills based off of int(student of philosophy trait being the best one) you simply won't have the skill points to be a party face.

However, don't worry, there is a better way. Oracles also got a nifty method of getting Magic Tail feats for free, in a Curse known as "Wrecking Mysticism," also from the Dirty Tactics Toolbox. Basically, what it does is make you a paragon of kitsune-ness, at the cost of making certain conditions that can usually be avoided by -not being a frontline fighter- effect you for a lot longer than normal. What does this mean mechanically? The curse's first "beneficial" side is that you can choose to trade your mystery spells for Magic Tail Feats when you get them. While this does mean losing out on some bonus spells, there are several mysteries that suffer from having rather lackluster mystery spells, which makes this curse ideal when taking them. This method is also superior to the trait for sorcs because sorcs only ever get 3 Bloodline Feats while an Oracle gets 9 mystery spells. This means an Oracle with this curse can get all the "Magic Tail" feats without spending a single actual feat slot on any of them. Even further, this same curse grants you several bonus spells that are tied to the lore of the Kitsune, including several illusion spells(Kitsune are known to employ illusions in Japanese mythology) and Magic Jar(Fox possessions where common in Japanese myth, to the point where stories of Kitsunetsuki(fox possession) has bred an actual mental illness in Japan with the same name.)

Even further, Oracles have another distinct advantage over a sorcerer for your character concept: 4+ Int skill points. This means that you can have anywhere from 12-14 intelligence and still have the skills to spend on both face stuff and the required "spellcaster" skills. The only downside is that if you wanted specifically to be an enchantment-focused debuffer/controller, the Cleric list(which the Oracle uses) is inferior to the sorc, and definetly the Mesmerist list. However, if you want to build towards Magic Tail, Oracle is without a doupt the way to go, and despite not having the best spell list for it, Oracles can make decent debuffers and controllers if thats the role your looking to fill in combat. Granted, a lot of their debuffing will be necromancy as appose to enchantment, and cleric-list battlefield control is literally all over the place in terms of school, but a debuffer/controller Oracle can still be made quite effectively, and due to naturally high charisma and 4+ Int skills can most certainly be a "party face" as well. If you are at all interested in swapping to Oracle with the Wrecking Mysticism curse to get Magic Tail feats, please let me know and I can help you further define your build and, if you decide you want to stick with a controller and debuffer role in combat help you find ways to do that which may not seem obvious when looking at the cleric spell list.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'd advise against Magical Tail even once for a mesmerist. Why? Take a look at the spells it gives you, now take a look at the mesmerist spell list. That's right, you can get all of those spells just by advancing in the mesmerist class.

Spell Focus and Greater Spell focus are good. Mesmerist is a save-or-suck caster, so you want things making saves less.

Finally, have a plan to deal with things immune to mind-affecting spells. The Spirit Walker archetype and Psychic Inception bold stare are both good starting points for this.

Played right, you can be an incredible asset to the party, without ever needing to deal HP damage yourself.


I really want to make the unchained monk archetype called the Kyuubi Visionary From this book. http://paizo.com/products/btpy9dsh?Everyman-Unchained-Monk-Archetypes

It is a kitsune dex base unchained monk. What stats should I put my 25 points into? what other feats should I get? What extra spells should I pick? And how am I able to use the flurry of blows damage with my Fighting fans? The book is very cheap $2.99.

Dark Archive

I'd have to look at the book, first, which I will do at some point. However, I still would not discount an Oracle with the Wrecking Mysticisim curse if you want to play a Caster + Face character who is a battelfield controller/debuffer and Nine-Tailed Kitsune. Oracles can be VERY potent controllers with the right choice of mystery and spells....don't think for a second that having the cleric list makes them bad at battlefield control and debuffing. Many of the Oracle Mysteries have revelations that grant them some powerful ways to apply battlefield control, and the cleric list has some potent debuffs as well if you know where to look. If you want a controller Oracle, Heavens Oracles are perhaps one of the most potent battlefield controllers in the game, able to apply absolute lockdown with the simple color spray spell. Several other mysteries have some great control abilities as well. The Lunar mystery immediately springs to mind, as it has a revelation that lets you use Inflict spells(which you can get for free as an Oracle) as a means to apply the confusion status condition to enemies(which is especially potent when you start getting the Mass Inflict spells and can confuse(aka lockdown) and damage entire mobs at the same time). The Outer Rifts mystery also comes to mind here, as it has at least two revelations that allow you to create zones of either difficult terrain or vision-obscuring fog...and this is all just off the top of my head. There are PLENTY more mysteries that offer some potent battlefield control options as an Oracle, what I've mentioned is meerly the tip of the iceburg and if you want to know more options for a controller Oracle I can certainly go find them.

As far as worrying about being shoehorned into being a "support/healer" character because your an Oracle...don't worry about that. Let people know flat out you are built as a controller, not a supporter...an anvil, not an arm...and you should be ok. If your REALLY worried about being forced to be "the healer" then the Lunar Mystery is where you should look. It gives you an actual use for the Inflict spells, and if you choose to take the Inflict Spells for free(which you should as a Lunar oracle speced to anvil/controller) then you can never be "forced" into a healing/support role as you won't have a single -cure- spell among your spells known. Lunar Oracles also get some very nice perks, such as cha-to-ac(nice) and, if your into control, an animal companion. While it may not seem as obvious a method of control as say, the sleep spell for arcane casters, the animal companion is actually a strong control option for low levels before you can start using Mass Inflict spells to confuse mobs. An animal companion can gum up the battlefield and make movement more difficult if placed smartly(such as by threatening attacks of opportunity, blocking optimal movement paths etc..). Heck, if you really wanted to push the control idea with a Lunar Oracle I'd go with a wolf over the usual choice of a big cat; at lower levels the trip is actually a very useful way of locking down enemies. If you use your animal companion smartly and flesh out your spells known with some of the debuff and control options from the cleric spell list, a Lunar can be a potent battlefield controller at low levels as well as high levels, when it finally gets mass inflict spells and can just start locking down entire mobs while damaging them at the same time.


If I play the mesmerist, I do not mind losing the tails. I love the selections of new spells. I love the Idea of stealing information from someone's mind. If I play the monk, I want to earn some gold and have an NPC make a custom silk Monk's magic outfit that is similar to a kimono/dress.

Dark Archive

If your not sold on the tails then yeah, Mesmerist is a GREAT class for the Kitsune race. Once you've made a decision, please, let us know. For now, I'll give advice for mesmerist, since thats what I know best out of the two(I play almost exclusively spellcasters)

Your going to want max charisma on a mesmerist. Usually, this means a 18 post racial, HOWEVER, since you have a massive 25 point buy, I'm actually going to recommend a full 20 starting cha. Normally, it's not worth spending that many points when an 18 will more then suffice, however...with 25 point buy, you actually have enough points to get that post-racial 20 and still have all the dex, con and int you need. As a mesmerist, you want to be maxing your charisma as much as you feesable can; your entire class is based on being a master of save-or-suck spells, which means that you want to pile on the cha, even if it comes at the expense of your other scores.

Thus, For ability scores, I'd go with one of the following layouts, depending on how much dexterity you need to feel "safe"...

High Dex layout:

Str: 8 (10-2)
Dex: 16 (14+2)
Con: 14
Int: 10
Wis: 8 (You get cha-to will saves, so you can dump this better than anybody else)
Cha: 20 (18+2)

Middling Dex/Moar Int layout:

Str: 8 (10-2)
Dex: 14 (12+2)
Con: 14 (Swap with Int if you want moar int/skills and feel safe with 12 con)
Int: 12 (swap with con if you feel safe with 12 con and want moar int/skills)
Wis: 9
Cha: 20 (18+2)

As for feats, you going to want a few things. The first is, obviously, ways to boost enchantment DCs. The most straightforward are Spell Focus (Enchantment) and Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment), but there are others worth noting as well. Two metamagic feats also help with making your save-or-sucks harder to resist, and these are Persistent Spell and Heighten Spell. Out of the two, Persistent Spell is the -clearly- stronger option, as it forces enemies to roll twice on your save-or-sucks, for a relatively small level adjustment. It's a great, great metamagic feat for a save-or-suck caster, and not one I'd be without. Heighten Spell is not mandatory, but if your at a lack for DC boosters it's a solid option as it lets you cast lower level spell as-if they where higher level ones, which increases their effective level and thus, their DC.

For more generally useful feats, I HIGHLY suggest taking Noble Scion, choosing a house of War, as your sole first level feat if your not going for a high dex. Why? This lets you use your CHARISMA in place of your dexterity when calculating initiative. They always list improved initiative as a great feat for spellcasters, and this is for a very distinct reason. Initiative is KEY for a battlefield controller. If you go first, you can effectively debuff and/or shut down entire mobs before they get to act, which means the fight is THAT MUCH easier. A Mesmerist who goes first in the initiative chain can outright trivialize combat encounters, especially at low levels when sleep is effectively an AOE save-or-die. For most casters who use either Int or Wis as their casting stat, they almost always, at some point, take Improved Initiative to go first as much as possible.

However, as a charisma-based caster, Noble Scion is basically ALWAYS better than Improved Initiative. Reason being that as you increase your charisma for casting, you ALSO increase your initiative. Thus, at level 1, this is generally providing the same bonus as improved initiative, but as you increase in level and your charisma grows higher, this bonus increases dramatically. Even further, you get a mechanical backing to claim a noble title, which, IMO is VERY fun for RP. Heck, if you REALLY wanted to cheese things out, you can technically stack both Noble Scion and Improved Initiative to get an Initiative modifier so high your DM may just toss a few books in your general direction. If you can do this, I'd actually recommend grabbing both feats, but it can be so powerful that I'd check with your DM before grabbing both of those feats....and if you can only get one, I'd DEFINITELY take Noble Scion over Improved Initiative. Note that Noble Scion MUST be taken at first level, so if you want it you need to take it right off the bat.

Another Feat I'd recommend, while it has nothing to do with being a better casting, would be the Kitsune racial feat Realistic Likeness. With your high skill points per-level, absolutely ridiculous bonuses to bluff and disguise as a class skill, this feat is EXTREMELY abuse-able for you. If you don't know, what it does is let you assume the form of other people, including specific individuals. This feat is absolutely ridiculous when used properly, as you become an exact physical duplicate of that person. Want to sneak into a restricted party of nobles? Shape-shift into an invited guest. Need to sneak past some guards? Become their guard captain, or a fellow guard if you want to be more on the down-low. Hell, if you really wanted to you could impersonate THE KING himself, though that may be more trouble then it's worth since your DM may very well throw an optimized disguise buster/lie detector your way if you try and pull that(Though if your dead-set on pretending to be the king, PM me as I can give you -lengthy- instructions on how to optimize your character to beat an optimized lie detector/disguise-buster.) This feat is amazingly useful, and on a Kitsune character with high skills and even higher charisma, it's an absolute treasure that you'll never want to be without...

There are other feats as well, and I will list them when I have the time. I hoped that helped.

Contributor

From the wrecking mysticism curse to the nine-tailed scion trait to the Kitsune Compendium product, I am humored that so much of my work is mentioned in this thread. :-P

If you're going kyuubi visionary, your best bet is to focus on Dexterity, Wisdom, and Charisma. You can buy an agile amulet of mighty fists fairly early on that'll give you Dex to damage with your unarmed strikes (as well as your bite, if that's a thing you care about).

The version of the archetype in the Kitsune Compendium is, however, balanced for the standard monk. An unchained monk version of the archetype can be found in Everyman Unchained: Monk Archetypes 2, which includes unchained versions of a fair amount of monk archetypes from the Pathfinder RPG, as well as two from my own Everyman Gaming, LLC products.


Alexander Augunas wrote:

From the wrecking mysticism curse to the nine-tailed scion trait to the Kitsune Compendium product, I am humored that so much of my work is mentioned in this thread. :-P

If you're going kyuubi visionary, your best bet is to focus on Dexterity, Wisdom, and Charisma. You can buy an agile amulet of mighty fists fairly early on that'll give you Dex to damage with your unarmed strikes (as well as your bite, if that's a thing you care about).

The version of the archetype in the Kitsune Compendium is, however, balanced for the standard monk. An unchained monk version of the archetype can be found in Everyman Unchained: Monk Archetypes 2, which includes unchained versions of a fair amount of monk archetypes from the Pathfinder RPG, as well as two from my own Everyman Gaming, LLC products.

At one time, I tried to make a Batfolk race on these forms. I hope that someday you will invent a better Batfolk race? Mabe, make them have a similar shape-changing power as a kitsune? I can Imagine a Batfolk Alchemist flying above town dropping bombs on some trolls! I believe that you can make a great polearm ninja archetype for flying Batfolk!


I am thinking of making both the Mesmerist and the monk. And have one as a backup character. For the monk's free spells, I am thinking of the choices of Color Spray, Shocking Grasp, and Thunderstomp for the first level spell. For the second level spell, I am thinking of Mirror Image, Touch of Idiocy (Punch in the Face), or Blur? I really want the Firey Shuriken spell, but it is a conjuration spell. :(


In what order should I put my feats for my mesmerist? And what spells are awesome for tricking nonplayer characters. What other awesome spells do I want for my mesmerist? I have picked the low dexterity build.


This is my Mesmerist build so far.

Kitsune

Str 8
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 12
Wis 9
Cha 20

This is my plan for my feats and class picks.
Traits: Armor Expert? and ???
1. Feat: Noble Scion, House of war. Trick: Mask Misery
2. Trick: False Flanker
3. Feat: Realistic Likeness, Bold Stare: Psychic Inception
4. Trick: Mesmeric Mirror
5. Feat: Spell Focus Enchantment
6. Trick: Meek Facade
7. Feat: Persistent Spell, Bold Stare: Sapped Magic
8. Trick: Compel Alacrity
9. Feat: Intense Pain
10. Trick: Spectral Smoke
11. Feat: Greater Spell Focus Enchantment, Bold Stare: Allure
12. Trick: Greater Mask Misery
13. Feat:
14. Trick: Vision of Blood
15. Feat: , Bold Stare: Disorientation

Can you guys help me finish my plan for my character? And so I need to switch anything around?


People, please stop ignoring my posts! I need my character ready on Monday. I am waiting all week for more posts.

And what spells are the best?

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