Combining Asmodean Advocate and Herald Caller


Rules Questions


Prepping well in advance for the upcoming evil AP, and I wanted to know if it's okay to combine the Asmodean Cleric archetype and the Herald Caller archetype.

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Cleric%20As modean%20Advocate

http://www.archivesofnethys.com/ArchetypeDisplay.aspx?FixedName=Cleric%20He rald%20Caller

Both do not affact each other in any way except for one thing: They both limit you to one cleric domain. Is it possible to have both of these since they both change practically the same thing, I would still only have 1 domain but it would be limited to the trickery domain.

If it's technically not legal, would you as a GM allow it in a home game anyways? I know this is probably loop holing at it's finest, but hey, got to start practicing somewhere don't I?

Designer

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They both alter domains, so it wouldn't be allowed by the rules of archetypes, which are very strict in that regard. I wouldn't allow it in a home game because they both gain significant power boosts (particularly compared to a domain's value) in exchange for the lost domain, so it's essentially taking two archetypes that trade out the same ability (the second domain).


Fair point. Hmrmmm, Which one should I pick then? Decisions, decisions, decisions.

Scarab Sages Developer

Mark is obviously correct that the rules don't allow you to take both. I would allow it in a home campaign, but you'd end up with 0 domains (having essentially taken two "-1 domain" archetypes).

Designer

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Mark is obviously correct that the rules don't allow you to take both. I would allow it in a home campaign, but you'd end up with 0 domains (having essentially taken two "-1 domain" archetypes).

I was actually also considering exactly that option for a home game ruling (and would likely allow two -1 domain archetypes in general in a home game to become 0 domains), but in this case, since Asmodean Advocate also includes restrictions on what the second domain must be, I went for no, since it can't be Trickery if you don't have it. That said, losing the second domain is far more of a trade-off than losing the first domain because you lose a bunch of spells per day.

Scarab Sages Developer

Mark Seifter wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Mark is obviously correct that the rules don't allow you to take both. I would allow it in a home campaign, but you'd end up with 0 domains (having essentially taken two "-1 domain" archetypes).

I was actually also considering exactly that option for a home game ruling (and would likely allow two -1 domain archetypes in general), but in this case, since Asmodean Advocate also includes restrictions on what the second domain must be, I went for no. That said, losing the second domain is far more of a trade-off than losing the first domain.

Yeah, losing the second domain means no domain spells, which hits pretty hard. I thought that was, in this case, reasonable even given that in addition to giving up a domain, the advocate requires your other domain be trickery. That said, since we're firmly in the realm of house rules, there's no real reason to think we'll come up with the same answer. :)

Designer

Yup!

I tend to be kinder about archetype stacking in home games than the official rules if I feel like one of the alterations to a class feature doesn't really affect or cancel out the other one (particularly if you have two archetypes that both add choices to your list of bonus feats with no other overlap, technically you can't take them both together because they alter the same class feature). But short of doing case-by-case rulings on when two alterations are fine (a quadratic number of rulings as the number of archetypes grows), the official rules are the only way to get a firm baseline, with GMs houseruling it when it makes sense.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Mark is obviously correct that the rules don't allow you to take both. I would allow it in a home campaign, but you'd end up with 0 domains (having essentially taken two "-1 domain" archetypes).

I was actually also considering exactly that option for a home game ruling (and would likely allow two -1 domain archetypes in general in a home game to become 0 domains), but in this case, since Asmodean Advocate also includes restrictions on what the second domain must be, I went for no, since it can't be Trickery if you don't have it. That said, losing the second domain is far more of a trade-off than losing the first domain because you lose a bunch of spells per day.

Hmm, I might discuss the possibility of doing this with my GM, even if I do lose spells per day *shudder*. Anyways, I made an advice post for this topic if anyone else who stumbles across this thread has any advice/opinions they'd like to offer.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2t5ka?Advice-for-an-evil-cleric#1

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