Hi,
I'm running the carrion crown campaign with several friends (group of 6) and I'm having all sorts of problems trying to handle how they spend their money.
First thing you need to know is that my group is made out of casual gamers. Maybe 2 of them are more familiar with role playing games, but otherwise, I can't expect that they will do their homework and frankly I don't mind it. Pathfinder is being overly complicated on several issues as far as I'm concerned.
Playing almsot exclusively with casual gamers, I also can't rely on them to help me out remembering the rules. That ends up with me managing a lot of things that they should otherwise be familiar with, limiting the time I have to deal with other issues such as this one.
Don't misunderstand me, I enjoy DMing and and I also enjoy pathfinder... I also want to abide by the rules as often as possible.
So my question is this... how do you usually handle the way your players are going to shop for magical items? Do you have a list of items per city? Do you have them look it up by themselves between games and then verify that they got it right? What is accessible and what isn't? The corerule book has lots of tables and formulas but I need it to be simple.
My players don't have a lot of knowledge about what magic items actually exist and what common magical enchantments are. They usually stick with what I give them. They are starting to hoard gold and think it is useless, as they have no idea how to spend it. When I ask them if they're going shopping before continuing with the quest, they have no idea what to look for and I can't do it all for them.
You can RP them talking to shopkeepers but honestly I find that tedious. If your players are so casual that they can't even look up items to better their characters though, I don't know what to tell you. The Big 6 is a no brainer.
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Try using the alternative Automatic Bonus Progression rules, then offer items with cool effects, flight, see invisibility, haste. An easy method would be to take their level and provide items that replicate level appropriate wizard spells.
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It depends on the city and setting,
if your in a small town or village i rule that they can not find the majority of magical items, pretty much just mundane non magical items.
If they are in a huge metropolis i will rule you can find most items, just ask me before you buy it and i will let you know if it is available or if i will allow the item.
sometimes you might want to limit the items and make a list yourself for the cities, but beware, if you are in a setting were going from one city to another quickly is a thing then this will get over exhausting to manage these lists. And it might lead to the players going well i just travel from city to city till i find the item i am looking for.
Other ways i have dealt with it is. You put a "buy order" on an item.
this works by going to the magic shop and paying for half the item upfront and having the shop craft the item for you. this take a number of days, usually 1 day for every 1,000 gp of the item. once the shop has finished crafting the item you then pay the other half for it and you have your item.
This method allows the players to get items they really want and allows you to continue the story without holding things up and without just giving them items as soon as they want them. they still have to wait a little bit.
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If you opted to mostly restrict the characters to using what they find in their adventures (as opposed to just being able to commission/purchase anything they want), that might be more conducive to getting them more actively engaged, since that way they need to do more actual thinking about their options and actually living in the gameworld.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So my question is this... how do you usually handle the way your players are going to shop for magical items? Do you have a list of items per city? Do you have them look it up by themselves between games and then verify that they got it right? What is accessible and what isn't? The corerule book has lots of tables and formulas but I need it to be simple.
This one's easy:
Player: I'll buy X.GM: Okay.
I promise, nothing bad will happen.
My players don't have a lot of knowledge about what magic items actually exist and what common magical enchantments are. They usually stick with what I give them. They are starting to hoard gold and think it is useless, as they have no idea how to spend it. When I ask them if they're going shopping before continuing with the quest, they have no idea what to look for and I can't do it all for them.
Okay, this one's a little trickier.
My first thought, since it sounds like your players simply don't know what's out there to spend their money on, is to simply advertise: maybe when they're in town, point out a storefront barker or bazaar trader who calls out to them with offers of bigger/better gear than they currently have.
"You there, sir! Have you been going out in the dangerous wilds with only a mundane cloak around your shoulders? You're lucky to be alive, and I'm here to give that luck a break! Yes sir, for the low, low price of 1,000 gold pieces you can own this magical cloak that will protect you from all manner of hazards, from pit traps to magical assaults! And you, with the fine sword! What if I told you I had a sword just like it, but that coats itself in the very fires of Hell at your command? That's right, it can be yours today at a bargain of a price. And you ma'am, with the..."
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If you opted to mostly restrict the characters to using what they find in their adventures (as opposed to just being able to commission/purchase anything they want), that might be more conducive to getting them more actively engaged, since that way they need to do more actual thinking about their options and actually living in the gameworld.
I'm confused.
The OP's stated issue is that the players don't know what they want, and so they're hoarding their gold.
I don't understand how making things harder to purchase will solve (or even contribute toward solving) that issue.
Can you elaborate?
I have a quick and easy solution for you.
Decide the maximum price of a single item they can purchase. For example, no item they can purchase in this town can cost over 7000 gold. This limit will be smaller for villages and towns and larger in cities. If they want to buy anything over the limit, either it simply isn't available or they will have to special order it (based on your discretion, no buying a gallon of demon's blood in a LG town, but the local armorer might be able to talk to his friends in the big city about getting a set of mithral full plate shipped in).
Also decide on the maximum spellcasting levels available in town. For example, this village only has a 5th level cleric, so only up to 3rd level spells are available. This town has an 11th level cleric, so 6th level spells are available. The capitol has a 15th level cleric, so 8th level spells are available. You can also distinguish between different spell lists, but I usually have them all remain the same.
Also, if your party is selling off massive amounts of loot, set a maximum "sell" amount for a settlement per month. For example, a settlement might have only 4000 gold to be able to spend on purchasing looted gear.
So once you come up with a few numbers you can use those as a baseline for everything else. It's a simplified version of the magic items and economy rules that are already established, and one that I find is much easier to work with.
To conclude, you need the following:
- Maximum item cost.
- Maximum spell levels available.
- Maximum sell amount.
With those three simple numbers you set, it should be much easier to run this. I hope this helps.
So my question is this... how do you usually handle the way your players are going to shop for magical items? Do you have a list of items per city? Do you have them look it up by themselves between games and then verify that they got it right? What is accessible and what isn't? The corerule book has lots of tables and formulas but I need it to be simple.
Playing with rather new players, I mostly hand out tailored items as loot, and only limited amounts of gold. Veterans probably wouldn't like this approach, but they seem happy they don't have to dig through the books and pick.
I made up a list of items for a city once - it was a lot of effort and they weren't interested in the majority of the offers. They liked the big items and mostly ignored the situationally useful little consumables. So next time I will focus on the interesting stuff. Consumables can still drop as loot.
I don't give them any homework beside their level ups. It would only increase the gap between the ambitious and the less ambitious players among them...
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Tailored items are definitely the friend of new or very casual players. You can peruse the books, even just core and hand out as you like - try and ask what the PCs are trying to accomplish then make sure it's in the loot. Don't feel at all constrained to use the loot as written in the AP because then you will end up giving the PCs items that aren't relevant to their character and they will want to sell.
If you do want to have magical shopping - which is by no means necessary (we didn't in our Carrion Crown campaign as our DM wanted us to feel isolated and 'on the edge') then you can set a price limit for minor items - the Core guide has a base table (though personally I find that a bit high and would half the figures or even quarter them).
There are lots of random generators that will then allow you to assign a selection of items to a settlement. Next time the Players visit simply refresh the list. This can represent the bigger items sold by nobles, other adventuring bands etc. Google 'settlement item generator'
I feel gives the best combination of purchasing without magic mart effect. The same limits allow the PCs to purchase magically reactive substances which they can use to craft. They can also harvest crafting materials from Magical Beasts, Golems, Outsiders, Fey, Undead and Dragons equal to the HD X 50gp on a successful knowledge check DC 15+HD.
That's just some suggestions based on how I have done things in my games.
So my question is this... how do you usually handle the way your players are going to shop for magical items? Do you have a list of items per city? Do you have them look it up by themselves between games and then verify that they got it right? What is accessible and what isn't? The corerule book has lots of tables and formulas but I need it to be simple.
I just what the rule book says about GP limit. If they have the money they can buy it if it's within that limit. But then I have players who know what they doing.
In your situation I might point out a magic shop with the sort of gear that their characters might want or could use. Have an NPC suggest they visit it for some suitable items. As they go along they should get the idea of what they need next time they play.
I'm going to echo what a few others have said. You need to go simple, as in, super-simple hand-holding for new players. There are literally thousands (maybe even ten thousand or more) different magical items in Pathfinder of varying levels of magic and cost. (It's one of the most annoying aspects of the game, in my opinion.) The problem is that most of them are situational or nearly useless, so one has to figure out which are useful and which are critical (the "big 6").
You don't need shorthand for determining which items are in which cities or shopkeepers suggesting items to buy. It sounds as though you players would benefit most from a dead-simple magic item system where you essentially hand things do them in loot form instead of money.
The solution:
1. Automatic scaling bonuses from Pathfinder Unchained (or some similar homebrew system). This will keep the PCs 'up to par' and reduce the need for the 'big 6' items, so they won't fall behind when they don't spend money on those items.
2. Drop loot instead of money. Not just any loot, but something the characters would want. With Point 1 above you don't have very much or any need for specific stat-boosting items, so you can choose things that are useful but don't often see play (Cloak of Displacement, Belt of Hurling, various amulets and headband items, etc.) or items that are just fun (Cloak of the Bat, for instance).
To sum it up: give them automatic bonuses to get rid of the "Big 6" syndrome, then just let them find useful magic items instead of money (mostly).