Monk, Rogue, Fighter archetypes: What are the good ones?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


As the topic title says: Among these three classes, widely regarded as some of the weakest PC options, (I hope not to have this topic devolve into yet another argument into the Martial/Caster disparity, but I also hope that a magical unicorn will carry me to the Peppermint Forest.) which archetypes are considered worthwhile for them?

Leastwise, I vaguely recall seeing people occasionally mention that certain archetypes are solid choices for the above classes. The only ones I can remember are Zen Archer for the monk, and Thug for the Rogue.

I'm aware that archetypes aren't going to turn them into gods, but it's good to know the worthwhile options.

Scarab Sages

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Unchained Monk is the strongest monk right now IMO. For core monk, there are some archetypes that really stand out such as the Sohei, Zen Archer, Tetori, and Harrow Warden.

For Rogue, Unchained is much better than core here as well, and unlike monk, Unchained can freely take archeypes. Thug is good for intimidate builds, Vexing Dodger is loads of fun, Escapologist is good for getting out of conditions while keeping trapfinding, Scout mixes well with mobility, and Knife Master is good for adding more damage.

For Fighter, Eldritch Guardian, Lore Warden, and Mutation Warrior are the top of the pile, with Pack Mule being not bad for adding skills. Fighter is helped the most by the new Weapon Master's Handbook.

Liberty's Edge

I would add there's nothing too bad about Tetori monks. Grappling is really strong, and since monks tend to have absurd non-armor bonuses to AC and therefore CMD, it's really hard to get out of the grapple.

I think flavorwise, there's a lot of opportunities.
For example, I've had amazing success (at least at lower levels so far) with flowing monk. It's not uncommon to deliver a charging enemy on a platter to the rest of the party prone, sickened, flat footed.

Scarab Sages Developer

Assuming your game it going to go beyond 4th, viking can make some very impressive fighters. Shield defense actually boosts your AC, unlike armor training, and rage (even with an effective barbarian level of fighter -4) combines nicely with a ton of feats.

Scarab Sages

With the release of the Weapon Master's Handbook, I'm loathe to take any fighter archetype that loses weapon training. Advanced Weapon Training is just too good to give up.

Scarab Sages Developer

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Imbicatus wrote:
With the release of the Weapon Master's Handbook, I'm loathe to take any fighter archetype that loses weapon training. Advanced Weapon Training is just too good to give up.

You're welcome. :)


The Unchained Monk abandons the whole point of being a monk and is just another easily dominated stupid fighter. No increase in combat capability is worth giving up the will save progression. Having to use ki for freaking everything without increasing the pool size is just icing on the fail cake. Unchained Monk is basically an inferior Brawler and has no business being in a later book.

The best monks are almost certainly the Sohei and Zen Archer. Tetori has a niche as well, but needs outside help to get its numbers high enough for a combat maneuver focus to be applicable in the late game because monster CMB/D scaling is messed up.

For rogue, unchained doesn't completely suck. And that's it unless you multiclass. Scout rogue 4 {storm|tempest} druid 4 with shaping focus is a potential combat polymorpher start, but it takes a while to come together and doesn't really play well with others. Scout rogue 4 synthesist summoner 1 can work similarly. If you're not multiclassing with some sort of combat shifter that gets early pounce access to justify scout the unchained rogue is the only option worth considering.

For fighter go lore warden. Focus on dirty trick or grapple and have a CMB/D high enough to be useful. WMH has probably made the martial master obsolete. The mutation warrior is still an option, but it was usually recommended in combination with the martial master. Being good at combat maneuvers is harder to get from items than short duration flight. Mutation warrior is a viable second choice, though.


Imbicatus wrote:
With the release of the Weapon Master's Handbook, I'm loathe to take any fighter archetype that loses weapon training. Advanced Weapon Training is just too good to give up.

And in a few months, I think the same will be true with Archetypes that give up armor training as well.

Martial Mastery, Advance Weapons Training, Equipment/Weapon tricks and Combat tricks are some of the best things to come a fighters way. There is even ways to get Martial Mastery (sort of) when you take AWT classes.

Though, It just makes the Advance Class Guide archetypes that much more painful now, as a lot of them are pretty weak, and most of them replace out Weapon Training with a Pseudo weapon training


Fun fact: Two-handed Weapon Fighters can dish out the hurt, AND they keep standard weapon training. ;D


Atarlost wrote:

The Unchained Monk abandons the whole point of being a monk and is just another easily dominated stupid fighter. No increase in combat capability is worth giving up the will save progression. Having to use ki for freaking everything without increasing the pool size is just icing on the fail cake. Unchained Monk is basically an inferior Brawler and has no business being in a later book.

The best monks are almost certainly the Sohei and Zen Archer. Tetori has a niche as well, but needs outside help to get its numbers high enough for a combat maneuver focus to be applicable in the late game because monster CMB/D scaling is messed up.

For rogue, unchained doesn't completely suck. And that's it unless you multiclass. Scout rogue 4 {storm|tempest} druid 4 with shaping focus is a potential combat polymorpher start, but it takes a while to come together and doesn't really play well with others. Scout rogue 4 synthesist summoner 1 can work similarly. If you're not multiclassing with some sort of combat shifter that gets early pounce access to justify scout the unchained rogue is the only option worth considering.

For fighter go lore warden. Focus on dirty trick or grapple and have a CMB/D high enough to be useful. WMH has probably made the martial master obsolete. The mutation warrior is still an option, but it was usually recommended in combination with the martial master. Being good at combat maneuvers is harder to get from items than short duration flight. Mutation warrior is a viable second choice, though.

While unchained monks have slow progression for their will saves its actually not really a weak save. So many of the monk’s abilities rely on WIS which means they usually have a good WIS. They also get still mind for an additional +2 save vs enchantments. One of my players is playing an unchained monk and his saving throws are actually the same across the board. The lack of fast progression is offset by his increased WIS.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Fighter:

- Cad is decent if you have a GM that doesn't make dirty trick maneuvers suck by disallowing them most of the time (because of not liking the "narrative" justification behind the attempt), especially with a dip in rogue (to gain sneak attacks against opponents you just blinded with dirty trick; skulking slayer has some nice synergy)

- Mobile fighter works fairly well; they effectively get a somewhat weaker version of pounce in Rapid Attack at 11th level, but they don't have to charge (with all of the associated limitations on movement) to use it

- Phalanx fighter is a pretty good option (with TWF and Improved Shield Bash/Shield Slam) for a character who can attack/threaten at reach and adjacent simultaneously (especially using the free bull rush with Shield Slam to push an opponent where they can be attacked with the reach polearm)

Monk:

- Monk of the sacred mountain has some interesting abilities that can be extremely useful when combined with another monk archetype or if the GM is allowing firearms (Bastion Stance + culverin or double hackbut = not being knocked prone; still take the -4 on attack rolls, though)

- Master of many styles can be quite effective with a bit of planning (some of the styles work well together; Dragon + Pummeling, Marid + Tiger, Panther + Snake, etc.)

- Sohei is one of the best monk options for low level play and/or for multiclassing (armor use, better weapons)

- Zen archer (as mentioned) is one of the best options for ranged weapon damage

Rogue:

Unfortunately, too many other classes (alchemist, bard, inquisitor, investigator, ranger, slayer) have archetypes and other options that allow them to basically do what a rogue can do, without significantly reducing their other class abilities (IMO); even a fighter (trip specialist with 13 Int for Combat Reflexes/Improved Trip; 3 Skill Ranks per level for Disable Device, Perception, and other skills as desired) can effectively fill in for the rogue when dealing with locks and traps (dwarf for Stonecunning to effectively gain Trap Spotter in most circumstances; Trap Finder trait to gain Disable Device as a class skill and even the ability to disarm magic traps); sadly, the rogue is probably best used as a 1-3 level dip when multiclassing

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Saying saving throws are offset by ability scores is not an argument, MS. You look at the class, not the stats of the person using the class.

While I agree it's probably overkill for them to say the Unchained Monk is worthless because it has a poor Will save now, in no way does having Wis as their primary stat offset this. Wis was already supposed to be important to a Monk. Making it more important to offset a weakness does not get rid of the weakness.

I must also, however, point out that 'all good saves' has only been a Monk thing since 3E, and one of the very few bright lights about the monk, it's 'schtick'. But it was a benefit that should have also gone to the fighter, who, after all, has even fewer magical abilities then the monk does (i.e. none at all). So, I don't consider it special that they lost the ability, especially if they gained full BAB out of it.

==Aelryinth


Mysterious Stranger wrote:
While unchained monks have slow progression for their will saves its actually not really a weak save. So many of the monk’s abilities rely on WIS which means they usually have a good WIS. They also get still mind for an additional +2 save vs enchantments. One of my players is playing an unchained monk and his saving throws are actually the same across the board. The lack of fast progression is offset by his increased WIS.

Sure, you can put 24-28 wisdom on a front line martial to make up the long term gap. Pull the other one, it's got bells on.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Imbicatus wrote:

Unchained Monk is the strongest monk right now IMO. For core monk, there are some archetypes that really stand out such as the Sohei, Zen Archer, Tetori, and Harrow Warden.

For Rogue, Unchained is much better than core here as well, and unlike monk, Unchained can freely take archeypes. Thug is good for intimidate builds, Vexing Dodger is loads of fun, Escapologist is good for getting out of conditions while keeping trapfinding, Scout mixes well with mobility, and Knife Master is good for adding more damage.

For Fighter, Eldritch Guardian, Lore Warden, and Mutation Warrior are the top of the pile, with Pack Mule being not bad for adding skills. Fighter is helped the most by the new Weapon Master's Handbook.

Add Viking and Martial Master on top of this for Fighters, and Master of Many Styles for Monk, and you've probably completed the rounded list of 'recommended' fighter archetypes. Sure, Specialty builds can get more specific (2h Fighter, Weapon Master Fighter, etc), but those above are the basic ones for stand alone and versatile play, as well as mix and match.

==Aelryinth


Sensei has some fun and unique abilities. Combine it with Qing Gong monk for more special abilities and Drunken Master for limitless ki. A level 12 monk/2 ninja can grant their party Mirror Image, which no other class can do. They can also use Restoration on people with no material component cost.


As someone who plays almost exclusively these classes...

Unchained Monk (no archetype) is boss. Monk of the Mantis is alright if you want to squeeze some extra damage. The boss builds are Dragon Style, Jabbing Style, or Ascetic Style.

Unchained Rogue can use a bit of archetyping but it's good baseline. Knife Master and Scout are the two archetype that I would always consider.

Fighter... well, as long as you have Weapon Training to take advantage of Advanced Weapon Training, you are good to go. No archetype is best for defensive builds. Lore Warden is great for utility, Mutagenic Mauler can boost damage way up high, Dervish of Dawn can grant mobility.


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Aelryinth wrote:

Saying saving throws are offset by ability scores is not an argument, MS. You look at the class, not the stats of the person using the class.

While I agree it's probably overkill for them to say the Unchained Monk is worthless because it has a poor Will save now, in no way does having Wis as their primary stat offset this. Wis was already supposed to be important to a Monk. Making it more important to offset a weakness does not get rid of the weakness.

I must also, however, point out that 'all good saves' has only been a Monk thing since 3E, and one of the very few bright lights about the monk, it's 'schtick'. But it was a benefit that should have also gone to the fighter, who, after all, has even fewer magical abilities then the monk does (i.e. none at all). So, I don't consider it special that they lost the ability, especially if they gained full BAB out of it.

==Aelryinth

When looking at a class you do have to factor in what the stats are going to be. Saying the monk is as vulnerable to domination and other enchantments as a fighter is simply not true. While he used to have the absolute best will save in the game, he still has decent will save. When people talk about paladins having great saves it is because of divine grace which is based on the paladins CHA.

By 20th level the unchained monk’s will save is 4 points behind his other saves without factoring in anything else. Vs. enchantments that gap drops down to 2 points. Do you really think a 20th level monk is not going to be able to make up the difference? The only thing the monk is really more vulnerable to is fear. Most fear based spells are necromancy so still mind does not help for those.

All in all I think they did a good job with the unchained monk. They now not only have full BAB, but better HP as well. Style strikes gave some nice options especially flying kick. Being able to get a full attack and while moving is very good. It allows the monk to be a mobile fighter which is pretty difficult to do. Other than a pouncing barbarian I don’t know of any class that can easily pull this off.


Aelryinth wrote:

Saying saving throws are offset by ability scores is not an argument, MS. You look at the class, not the stats of the person using the class.

==Aelryinth

This is a cognitive flaw. You need to look at the whole package.

Last month, base fighters were an underpowered class. Today, they have a lot of great options. The class itself didn't change. What changed is the relative power level of a FEAT.

Thanks to Advanced Weapon Training, Fighters get a lot more mileage from feats, and the class itself is powered up.

Similarly, an UnMonk does have lower baseline Will saves than a regular Monk.

However, the regular Monk DOES need more Constitution (due to low hit dice), and the regular Monk has more incentives towards using Finesse (which in turn means less focus on Wisdom).

On the other hand, the UnMonk favors STR and WIS, with just the tiniest bit of CON (since you have evasion and good Fortitude saves anyway).

By the time the difference in saves would be greatest (level 20), the UnMonk has that ability that allows them to double roll Will saves, which fully balances out the situation.

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Getting the ability to roll twice on a save after 10th levels just means you don't want to play the class pre-10th.

We've been complaining that the level of fighter-only feats has been pathetic for years, esp vs what paladins get and barbarian rage powers are. They still need to learn the same thing for Rogue Talents, however.

And if you can only take 3 level appropriate, scaling feats for a fighter...I'm sorry, that leaves like 10 empty levels still waiting to be filled.

Weaknesses of a class drive builds. A low Will save basically FORCES an Unmonk to pump Wis, and drive it away from Dex builds. Good Will save and Cha to all saves makes paladins dump Wis and pump Cha for 3x the benefit. of COURSE you'll see high Cha on paladins. But they'll never pump Wis with a good Will save already there. It becomes much less important.

==Aelryinth


Quote:
A low Will save basically FORCES an Unmonk to pump Wis, and drive it away from Dex builds.

Which is good, considering Ascetic Style + Sansetsukuon or Temple Sword in 2H for 1.5x damage, or Dragon Style for 1.5x damage with unarmed strikes (and 2x with the first one) are really good choices.


Fighter :
Lore warden is simply amazing if you want to not ONLY do damage.
my Lore warden 12 \ monk of maneuvers 2 , can make a foe shaken + sicken + blind + dazzled and many more effects while still doing damage.

Monk:
Sohei that spend 3 feats for a mount is one of the best and most fun mounted terror in the game. mounted skirmisher while flurry with a lance - a mount that gain all the Ki bonuses and much much more. later on you can even flurry with a bow foe a switch option.

rogue -
i dont think it sucks at all.
a scout with spring attack = a sneak with effects delivered EVERY attack. only elemental, swarms and oozed are immune - and 2 of those are a headache to a fighter as well.
a sap master spring attacking, 1 dip into shadow dancer - scout \ thug is a VERY decent DPR while having super skills, talents and decent defenses. (other than the low saves. )
what other class can do , at level 15, 15d6 + sicken + fear (foe is running! ) + another free effect while you are hiding in plain sight?
EVERY round.


Fighter:
Top: Lore warden, Mutagenic warrior
Very good: Viking, Eldritch Guardian
Very good but dont have weapon training so not so good:Mobile fighter, Polearm master, Archer
Good if combined with Lore warden: Martial Master

Monk:
Good: Drunken Master, Hungry ghost monk, Monk of the Lotus (nobody mentioned it but its really strong), Sensei, Sohei, Master of Many styles (can you combine pummeling style and ascetic style?)
Excellent but not a monk: Tetori, zen archer
Qinggong applies to everything.
Unchained monk is also excellent

Dark Archive

I would rather uMonk had weak fort and its various immunities (like disease and poison) left untouched, rather than weak will. A weak-willed monk just doesn't sit well with me.

Having said that, I do think 14-16 base Wis is easy to get on most unchained monks, and that should cover your will save nicely.


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Darche Schneider wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
With the release of the Weapon Master's Handbook, I'm loathe to take any fighter archetype that loses weapon training. Advanced Weapon Training is just too good to give up.
And in a few months, I think the same will be true with Archetypes that give up armor training as well.

God, it's going to be so weird telling people to play Fighters for their martial concepts. Slayer? What's that? Does it get Weapon Training? DX


Brawler archetype fighters are rather good for what theya re mainly designed for: Locking down opponnets.

They get large bonuses to stand still, a feat that provides a maneuver which lets you stop AoO drawing movement in adjacent squares, and the No escape ability, which forces pretty much every kind of movement from your adjacent squares to draw AoOs.

They also give rather sizeable debuffs to attack adn concentration rolls to enemies in adjacent squares.

Overall, their purpose is to jump in, and stay in, and make sure everything else stays in too. Once that happens, it can get off all the full attacks it wants.


You could also work towards the new Gorum Divine Fighting style. It allows your vital strikes to count as continual damage for concentration checks, which will make it hard for the caster to cast.


lemeres wrote:

Brawler archetype fighters are rather good for what theya re mainly designed for: Locking down opponnets.

They get large bonuses to stand still, a feat that provides a maneuver which lets you stop AoO drawing movement in adjacent squares, and the No escape ability, which forces pretty much every kind of movement from your adjacent squares to draw AoOs.

They also give rather sizeable debuffs to attack adn concentration rolls to enemies in adjacent squares.

Overall, their purpose is to jump in, and stay in, and make sure everything else stays in too. Once that happens, it can get off all the full attacks it wants.

Could you imagine the fighter using the Telekinetic Mastery feat for the combat Maneuver version?

Flying enemy? No problem. You can flipping grapple it 400+ feat away. With all the additional riders the Fighter could add on it, like chokehold..


How about non-combat situations? Is there any archetype that lets these poor souls perform at least decently in such cases (like dungeoneering and negotiations)?


For Fighter: Mutation Warrior, Lore Warden are the best but the new Relic Master is excellent too. Viking is very good but since it's basically a barbarian I refuse to consider it...

P.S.

Archer is probably the worst fighter archetype, a normal fighter is way better at being an archer than the archer.


Nah Worst archetype I think goes to Crossbow fighter. Since two of the class features you get are because they throught it would be too powerful to just give you full damage when you use a readied action to shoot a crossbow.

Cause clearly, dropping a character who could easily get 4~5 attacks a round as a full round action, to a single round would deal too much damage.


I put together an overview of Fighter archetypes in this post, although I missed Sensate (it gets filled in a few posts down), and I don't have access yet to the Relic Master that somebody mentioned above.


UnArcaneElection wrote:

I put together an overview of Fighter archetypes in this post, although I missed Sensate (it gets filled in a few posts down), and I don't have access yet to the Relic Master that somebody mentioned above.

Well, you can find it on d20pfsrd.com under, of all things, "other races". So its been a bit misplaced.

Not sure how good it is. Armor training gets traded for item mastery feats for x/day. (I have no idea what item mastery is- is that another new option?). Armor mastery is replaced with another item mastery thing.

Weapon training is replaced with some limited use enhancement bonus booster on your items. Used for minutes/day (1+con), spent in minutes. It appears to only add +1...and honestly, having constant weapon training seems so much better (especially with AWT giving you a ton of versatility now). So overall, that is a wash from my perspective (I have doubts even with more full enhancement bonus features- this is a limited use one that doesn't appear to scale)

Unless I am looking at an incomplete/inaccurate copy of the archetype, or just missing some amazing ability (maybe item master is great?) but no, doesn't have much oomph to me.


I still can't find Relic Master, even under Other Races -- which sub-page of this is it under?


UnArcaneElection wrote:

I still can't find Relic Master, even under Other Races -- which sub-page of this is it under?

Did you get to 'other races' through the side bar? That takes you to a different page than the one listed on the front page. Here is the page, should be on the right side of screen:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races

Scarab Sages

Item Mastery are a series of feats based on Use Magic Device that you can take to "overclock" magic items to cast spells a few times per day using your BAB as the caster level. For example, Flight Mastery allows you to cast Flight buy using an item with a transmutation spell creation requirement up to three times per day scaling on your Fort Save.


Imbicatus wrote:

Item Mastery are a series of feats based on Use Magic Device that you can take to "overclock" magic items to cast spells a few times per day using your BAB as the caster level. For example, Flight Mastery allows you to cast Flight buy using an item with a transmutation spell creation requirement up to three times per day scaling on your Fort Save.

And the awesome thing about that is that your stat belt requires a transmutation spell, so you are VERY likely to benefit from the feat without any additional investment.


johnnythexxxiv wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

Item Mastery are a series of feats based on Use Magic Device that you can take to "overclock" magic items to cast spells a few times per day using your BAB as the caster level. For example, Flight Mastery allows you to cast Flight buy using an item with a transmutation spell creation requirement up to three times per day scaling on your Fort Save.

And the awesome thing about that is that your stat belt requires a transmutation spell, so you are VERY likely to benefit from the feat without any additional investment.

I am still somewhat warry.

It just seems like something that is made obsolete by normal loot progression. If it was a constant thing, like with occultists or hunters, then I could accept it (since, yes, items are made available to make this obsolete, but you don't ever need to waste money on those items, thus allowing you to spend it to buff up other items).

But this is limit uses per day. And does item mastery use swift actions too? Does it conflict with other parts of the archetype over which should get the swift action? Wouldn't I just be better off grabbing a regular righter with AWT and maybe a nice intimidate/hurtful build for an extra attack?

EDIT- I haven't read item mastery though, so maybe it lets you get +8 str belts and such, which would be alright... still, the repalcement for weapon training does in fact hit up against the upper limtis on item enhancement, so I consider that a wash at the very least (particularly when it is competing against advanced weapon training, or 'the ability that deal with a ton of complaints about fighters'-I just can't see this defeating a +6 to attack/damage, with gloves of dueling, and a +5 to will save or reflex saves)


Darche Schneider wrote:

Nah Worst archetype I think goes to Crossbow fighter. Since two of the class features you get are because they throught it would be too powerful to just give you full damage when you use a readied action to shoot a crossbow.

Cause clearly, dropping a character who could easily get 4~5 attacks a round as a full round action, to a single round would deal too much damage.

Overwatch Style from the Weapon Masters Handbook helps makes up for a lot of the issues with Crossbow Fighter being so reliant on readied actions. Hell make it a Crossbow Fighter (VMC Rogue) for all the interactions.

Liberty's Edge

Or ask the DM if he allows 3pp to allow other races to take the Dwarven Crossbowyer class. It's on the SRD. A class that takes into account the effectiveness of a crossbow against armor. As well as it being at a decent range increment.


johnnythexxxiv wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

Item Mastery are a series of feats based on Use Magic Device that you can take to "overclock" magic items to cast spells a few times per day using your BAB as the caster level. For example, Flight Mastery allows you to cast Flight buy using an item with a transmutation spell creation requirement up to three times per day scaling on your Fort Save.

And the awesome thing about that is that your stat belt requires a transmutation spell, so you are VERY likely to benefit from the feat without any additional investment.

A +1 sword also uses transmutation if I'm not mistaken.

But one of the cooler ones for me is the Telekinetic Mastery. Cause this is like the ultimate f-u spell if you're a martial who uses the manuvers in it. Like grapple, You're like Oh no! That monster is flying away? GRAPPLED!


Darche Schneider wrote:
johnnythexxxiv wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

Item Mastery are a series of feats based on Use Magic Device that you can take to "overclock" magic items to cast spells a few times per day using your BAB as the caster level. For example, Flight Mastery allows you to cast Flight buy using an item with a transmutation spell creation requirement up to three times per day scaling on your Fort Save.

And the awesome thing about that is that your stat belt requires a transmutation spell, so you are VERY likely to benefit from the feat without any additional investment.

A +1 sword also uses transmutation if I'm not mistaken.

But one of the cooler ones for me is the Telekinetic Mastery. Cause this is like the ultimate f-u spell if you're a martial who uses the manuvers in it. Like grapple, You're like Oh no! That monster is flying away? GRAPPLED!

Do we know how the CMB version of Telekinesis works with this feat? You're not a sorcerer or a wizard so determining which ability score you use isn't clear. I'd rule that Telekinetic Masters get to use whichever one is higher of course but I'm sure plenty of people would consider Wizards to be the default and say it's Intelligence.


Quote:
If a spell-like ability calls for a calculation using your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma bonus or modif ier, use your Constitution bonus or modif ier instead

So yeah, You'd just be using your con actually.


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lemeres wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

I still can't find Relic Master, even under Other Races -- which sub-page of this is it under?

Did you get to 'other races' through the side bar? That takes you to a different page than the one listed on the front page. Here is the page, should be on the right side of screen:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races

I'm not sure why it was under Other Races, but Relic Hunter has been moved under Fighters where it is supposed to be.

(If you spot anything else needing tweaking/fixing, you can use the Reporting form or email link on the d20pfsrd Trouble page.)


I really like Eldritch Guardian. Wonder what you could do combining it with advanced weapon training. Trench fighter is also pretty great if you want to use guns.


Nordom Whistleklik wrote:
lemeres wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:

I still can't find Relic Master, even under Other Races -- which sub-page of this is it under?

Did you get to 'other races' through the side bar? That takes you to a different page than the one listed on the front page. Here is the page, should be on the right side of screen:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races

I'm not sure why it was under Other Races, but Relic Hunter has been moved under Fighters where it is supposed to be.

(If you spot anything else needing tweaking/fixing, you can use the Reporting form or email link on the d20pfsrd Trouble page.)

Thanks for fixing this -- I didn't know who on here was from d20pfsrd.com. I ha ve generated a review of the archetype.


Thanks for all the comments, everybody. Good to see my options.

I see somebody started a topic reviewing all the archetypes, so this one could become redundant unless nobody takes up the martial archetypes.

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