Int 3 Wizard... What the heck can I do now?


Advice

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

So... My wizard got feebleminded in the boss fight. This is for a PbP campaign, so I'm still in that dang boss fight. The mage we're fighting has greater invisibility on him and I'm the only one in the party who can still see him because I can see invisible. I'm also hasted for what it's worth, and have a headband of vast intelligence plus 2. (Hence the Int of 3.)

At the moment, I told the GM that I am screaming wordlessly as I am rushing towards "the bad man who hurt my friends." There are multiple images of him, but I don't know how many because I can't currently count that high.

What can I do when I catch him? Can I actually pull my dagger? What can an int 3 person actually DO?

Hmm


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Hmm wrote:

At the moment, I told the GM that I am screaming wordlessly as I am rushing towards "the bad man who hurt my friends." There are multiple images of him, but I don't know how many because I can't currently count that high.

What can I do when I catch him? Can I actually pull my dagger? What can an int 3 person actually DO?

You can still count with an INT3 (although you might have an upper limit).

You can still speak with an INT3 (although you should probably stick to simple words and sentence structures).
You can still draw a dagger.
You can do anything a trained animal can do and more !

Scarab Sages

Feeblemind wrote:
Target creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence- or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently. Still, it knows who its friends are and can follow them and even protect them.

You can absolutely still use weapons, as they are not Intelligence or Charisma based skills, spells, or language. Feeblemind is explicit on what it disallows and weapons are not on the list. You can even use ranged weapons if you have them.

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Int 3 is still enough to understand language. There shouldn't be an issue with attacking in melee. Well, not a rules issue, at least...

Wands actually don't have a casting stat requirement. Again, you still understand language, so technically you should be able to deliver the command word. You may want to roll randomly to determine what wand you think is helpful, though.

Scarab Sages

Even with the Int 3, she still can't understand on communicate, because feeblemind overrides that. Frankly, I don't think the headband works with feeblemind, because it sets the int to 1 period, but that's not really important here.


Int 3 Summary from PRD:

  • You can still read/speak your racial languages
  • You have just above animal level intelligence
  • You cannot cast spells tied to Int (i.e. your wizard spells)

Maybe there is a ruling on this somewhere, but you should be able to still use your Wizard class supernatural abilities. The Wizard class spell-like abilities could be on the table too, though this is probably more in the grey area than supernatural abilities.

Also, any of your equipment given spell-like and super-natural abilities should be usable still.

Edit: I also agree with Imbiactus that the feeblemind should have set your Int to 1, regardless of your magic items that raise int.

PRD Feeblemind wrote:
Target creature's Intelligence and Charisma scores each drop to 1. The affected creature is unable to use Intelligence- or Charisma-based skills, cast spells, understand language, or communicate coherently.


Imbicatus wrote:

Even with the Int 3, she still can't understand on communicate, because feeblemind overrides that. Frankly, I don't think the headband works with feeblemind, because it sets the int to 1 period, but that's not really important here.

The Headband gives a bonus to intelligence. It should still work.

That said, she still wouldn't be able to talk or communicate coherently. Wands shouldn't work because they require you to use the Spell Completion action which requires you to speak a word, which is absolutely communicating coherently.

This is one reason I always have a few alchemical items floating around - a tanglefoot bag would be quite useful right now.

Scarab Sages

MeanMutton wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:

Even with the Int 3, she still can't understand on communicate, because feeblemind overrides that. Frankly, I don't think the headband works with feeblemind, because it sets the int to 1 period, but that's not really important here.

The Headband gives a bonus to intelligence. It should still work.

Yes, but feeblemind sets INT to 1, and can't be removed by anything not a heal, limited wish, miracle, or wish (except possibly, break enchantment).

A headband is not any of those, so the feeblemind may override the enhancement bonus to intelligence.

But as I said, it's not important for this discussion, as the spell stops you from being able to communicate or understand any language.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Certainly the poor wizard's INT is set to 1, despite the headband, though even if the DM accepts that it's 3, that doesn't really change anything. The spell specifies you can't communicate or understand anything. Best you could do is go "Gaaaa-aa-aaah!" and charge the bad guy with your dagger, use your bow or throw something.

Wand use is a bit ambiguous. You can no longer "cast spells", but does that still allow you to count all wizard spells as being on your spell list? A generous DM would let you use a wand, especially if you have a favorite blasty wand in a handy place. Other DMs might rule that you no longer have a class-based spell list, as long as you are under the effects of the spell. The command word would be a major problem though, since you cannot "communicate coherently". I'd lean towards no wand use.

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MeanMutton wrote:

This is one reason I always have a few alchemical items floating around - a tanglefoot bag would be quite useful right now.

I got hit with a feeblemind while playing a bomber alchemist. Not only did the rest of my bombs per day evaporate, but I was now taking a -5 Int penalty to damage, so I couldn't hurt anyone with regular alchemical splash weapons either.

Luckily I had 14 Strength, a dagger, and boots of haste, so I still managed to kill that caster.


Oh yeah, I missed the part I even quoted. You cannot understand language or communicate coherently as part of the feeblemind. You can recognize your friends and protect them.

So attacking with your weapons is certainly ok, as well as using potions to help that effort.

I still don't see any reason why you couldn't use supernatural abilities.
Also, spell-like abilities "have no material, verbal, or somatic components, but are activated mentally". Now, whether or not you have the mental capacity to do so is likely worth the discussion, but feeblemind says it only prevents spell-casting.

Scarab Sages

Even if you can use wizard school abilities, they are limited to Int-mod uses per day. You have no uses with an INT 1 (or 3).


Imbicatus wrote:
Even if you can use wizard school abilities, they are limited to Int-mod uses per day. You have no uses with an INT 1 (or 3).

Some of them are flat times / day without any reliance on your intelligence - Elemental Wall, for instance, works for "a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level". So, some of those might work.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
MeanMutton wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Even if you can use wizard school abilities, they are limited to Int-mod uses per day. You have no uses with an INT 1 (or 3).
Some of them are flat times / day without any reliance on your intelligence - Elemental Wall, for instance, works for "a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level". So, some of those might work.

Only with a *very* generous DM.

If spell-like abilities "have no material, verbal, or somatic components, but are activated mentally," surely the inability to cast spells would also mean the inability to *mentally* activate those clever spell_like abilities.

The RAI of this spell is to deprive you of all recourse to magic. It's a legacy spell, so nobody thought about wizard school abilities back then.

Table variation is not going to be kind to this kind of usage. Just ask your DM and humbly submit to his ruling.


Is there a ruling that "3 + Intelligence Mod" for uses (as an example) really should include a negative intelligence modifier, or did they just not think about Int damage/drain when writing the ability?

As MeanMutton wrote there are some that are based on class. Also, any supernatural/spell-like from race or equipment should work too.


RainyDayNinja wrote:

I got hit with a feeblemind while playing a bomber alchemist. Not only did the rest of my bombs per day evaporate, but I was now taking a -5 Int penalty to damage, so I couldn't hurt anyone with regular alchemical splash weapons either.

Luckily I had 14 Strength, a dagger, and boots of haste, so I still managed to kill that caster.

My sorcerer got hit by it while playing Rats of Round Mountain 1, I flailed at the enemy mage with my staff until the fight was over.

Fun times.


Wheldrake wrote:
MeanMutton wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Even if you can use wizard school abilities, they are limited to Int-mod uses per day. You have no uses with an INT 1 (or 3).
Some of them are flat times / day without any reliance on your intelligence - Elemental Wall, for instance, works for "a number of rounds per day equal to your wizard level". So, some of those might work.

Only with a *very* generous DM.

If spell-like abilities "have no material, verbal, or somatic components, but are activated mentally," surely the inability to cast spells would also mean the inability to *mentally* activate those clever spell_like abilities.

The RAI of this spell is to deprive you of all recourse to magic. It's a legacy spell, so nobody thought about wizard school abilities back then.

Table variation is not going to be kind to this kind of usage. Just ask your DM and humbly submit to his ruling.

Totally agree with all of this. Items which are pretty definitively going to work:

1) Attack with a weapon
2) Drink a potion
3) Use an alchemical item
4) Use a supernatural or extraordinary ability

Am I missing anything?

Scarab Sages

justaworm wrote:

Is there a ruling that "3 + Intelligence Mod" for uses (as an example) really should include a negative intelligence modifier, or did they just not think about Int damage/drain when writing the ability?

As MeanMutton wrote there are some that are based on class. Also, any supernatural/spell-like from race or equipment should work too.

If the ability states "modifier", it includes negatives. If it states "bonus" it is positive only.

Determine Bonuses

Each ability, after changes made because of race, has a modifier ranging from –5 to +5. Table: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells shows the modifier for each score. The modifier is the number you apply to the die roll when your character tries to do something related to that ability. You also use the modifier with some numbers that aren't die rolls. A positive modifier is called a bonus, and a negative modifier is called a penalty. The table also shows bonus spells, which you'll need to know about if your character is a spellcaster.


Ahh, excellent.

After a quick look at Hmm's characters, I believe the character in question is Rataji, Human Enchanter 7.

It looks like that Dazing Touch would be the only applicable ability here, which is a Spell-like ability that has uses depending on Int mod.

So, it looks like the dagger is the only choice.

Good Luck, Rataji! :)


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OOC:
I'm off to stab the wizard
The wizard who gave me the blahs
We've found he's a git of a wiz
If ever a git there was...

IC:

"AAAAaaaaauugh!"

Stabitty stabitty stab!

Scarab Sages

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"What can an INT 3 Wizard do?"

I know someone who can tell you....


If this is Serpent's Rise,

Spoiler:
The oracle pregen should have a Heal scroll, unless she's used it already.

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