Long AP's (time InGame wise)


Pathfinder Adventure Path General Discussion


Hi,

I love Pathfinder and I really love the Adventure Pathes. I stopped writing my own campaign, because AP's let me do the same thing in a much, much smaller amount of time. And I have to admit that I don't have that much time anymore than I used to have back when we were playing AD&D or 3rd Ed.
But I didn't want to glorify my favourite RPG, but ask a question:
Some of my players are "complaining" that Adventure Pathes are too short from an InGame time view. I mean, most AP are done in a couple of weeks InGame wise. And in this time the PC's are raising from nobodies to great heroes. This just doesn't feel right...
So far we played Council of Thieves, Kingmaker and now Reign of Winter (will probably finish this end of this/beginning of next year) and the only one, where there is plenty of time, so that you could say that the PC's train and getting their new skills and feats was Kingmaker. (also it was the best AP for me to add some additional adventures, involve the backgroundstories of the PC's etc.).
So, as I want to satisfy my players I wondered, if there are more AP which take longer (again: InGame Time wise). Also which have a bit more sandboxy approach, so that I as the GM can add some of my own material without rewriting the whole AP (I'm exaggeratin a little bit here... ).

Oh and please don't say Skull & Shackles as that one is out of the question (because of all the pirates).


Legacy of Fire, an older AP which would require some updating, somewhat takes place over a decent length of time. In the first book the characters clear out what is essentially a bandit town and go from 1-5, then there's a year break. Books 2-6 then take a few weeks to sort out (most of that is travel time).

Jade Regent also has a large amount of time if only because there is so much travelling, it takes a few months of in-game time to complete as opposed to a few weeks.

Why is your group opposed to Skull & Shackles, however? Is it purely from a "I do not enjoy sailing" standpoint? Or is it a fear that as 'pirates', the PCs are obliged to plunder and rape? If it's the second this is not the case - while a GM and group interested in running the AP from a more evil standpoint could certainly pursue it that way, it's honestly more of a 'selfish' campaign than evil (IE CN rather then CE).

Consider the fact that the Shackles, while yes run by pirates, is actually a nation. The men and women who lead the ships and hold positions of authority are 'free captains'. While there are of course a number of evil captains, there are just as many (if not more) who are more focused on personal freedom.

Not only the above, but Skull & Shackles probably has the most downtime of any AP due to the amount of sailing and the passage of time it takes to go from point to point (particularly the second book, which is very open-ended).

My point is that you shouldn't discount S&S just because you fear it will be too over the top evil or everyone will just end up a Pirates of the Carribean reject. I would recommend giving it a look over before you deny it out of hand.


Thanks for the reply.
Its me, not my group who said that we won't play S&S, just because I don't like anything pirate themed (the S&S PACG was ok, but I still didn't liked the theme). It's not that I think that they are evil, I'm not afraid that it will be full of rape and plunder... I just don't like pirates...

Legacy of Fire sounded already interesting in the past, but it's hard to get the modules, isn't it?
Jade Regent could be an idea... I will have a closer look to that one (even if I'm afraid that one of my group isn't fond of that idea and another one would immedeatly say yes, because then I had to allow ninjas to my campaign....).


While the physical copies of Legacy of Fire would be difficult to get, as I believe they are out of print (I also believe this is the case for Jade Regent), you can always grab up the PDFs. As far as 'having' to allow ninjas in a Jade Regent game, that's not true at all - the first book takes place in Varisia, and in truth the players don't make it to Tian Xia until the end of the third book. Of course, on the other hand, I've always been of the opinion that if a player can make a sensible backstory, no class should be off limits.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

None of the Adventure Paths we do are on timers—they can take as long as the GM wants in-world. I think the fact that each part comes out so quickly over the course of six months gives the wrong impression that the game play is supposed to only last six months. That's certainly not the intent.


Looking at something like Carrion Crown, the journeys aren't very long, the adventures themselves are generally over in a few days, and there's no particular reason to delay between them unless the GM adds in special "you have to wait for someone to bring you information" type obstacles.

From the player's viewpoint, there's a sense of urgency (sometimes false urgency), because the bad guys are trying to do something bad - any PCs who stop to craft items should worry about possibly bringing about a catastrophe.

And Pathfinder game balance relies to some extent on this urgency - the alternative is to allow "15 minute adventuring days" where PCs burn through their spells, retreat and rest.

I'd be surprised if many groups took a whole six months of in-game time to get to the end.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
James Jacobs wrote:
None of the Adventure Paths we do are on timers—they can take as long as the GM wants in-world. I think the fact that each part comes out so quickly over the course of six months gives the wrong impression that the game play is supposed to only last six months. That's certainly not the intent.

Well, the end of a lot of modules certainly give the appearance that immediate action needs to be taken to prevent a great evil from happening. If you want AP's to have a better illusion of a long campaign duration, you need to integrate more alternatives in the modules themselves on how to take out those frequent "you need to go to place X to prevent Y nownownow!" situations, like the siege of Sandpoint and many others like it.


Iron Gods doesn't need to be run fast. The BBEG is working on completing a plot that has already taken centuries. He can wait a few years. None of the intermediate parts are on short timers, either. At best I'd say you need to do volume 2 (Lords of Rust) within a reasonable amount of time after volume 1 (or else face a second assault from that direction, which isn't all bad), and you need to do 6 within a reasonable amount of time after 5 (or else face political upheaval and counter action by a reformed Technic League, which isn't all bad).

The third module even has a section in the back suggesting ways to do side adventures between the modules or during travel time. I can easily see this one taking a few years as you consolidate your gains from phase I (Fires of Creation and Lords of Rust) and phase II (Choking Tower and Valley of the Brain Collectors) and explore some side ruins to build up more resources and gain more experience.


Shattered Star can easily spread over years, especially if the shards only point to each other at specific times of the year.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

magnuskn wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
None of the Adventure Paths we do are on timers—they can take as long as the GM wants in-world. I think the fact that each part comes out so quickly over the course of six months gives the wrong impression that the game play is supposed to only last six months. That's certainly not the intent.
Well, the end of a lot of modules certainly give the appearance that immediate action needs to be taken to prevent a great evil from happening. If you want AP's to have a better illusion of a long campaign duration, you need to integrate more alternatives in the modules themselves on how to take out those frequent "you need to go to place X to prevent Y nownownow!" situations, like the siege of Sandpoint and many others like it.

That's as much a problem with GM presentation of the material, frankly, as anything else. We rarely use "timers" in adventures, and often there are points where the PCs can take longer breaks.

That's not the main point I was focusing on though—it's the in-between sections of the individual adventure path installments where the GM has full and absolute control over how much time passes, with a very few notable exceptions.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I don't really see any of the APs as short in-game, particularly at lower levels. Before the heroes start accruing some really useful healing, just recovering from a day's adventuring can take a few days.

Travel time adds more time and presents an opportunity for side-quests depending on how wedded to the strict AP storyline you are.

I'd also recommend adding training time (costing no gold) whenever PCs gain levels. Creighton Broadhurst (of LG fame) uses a 1 week per level gained method which would certainly slow down any campaign to a more realistic pace. You can see how it is used narratively in his session summaries here. As you'll see, this offers those not training the opportunity to go off and accomplish things on their own although this may not work with groups where everyone makes it to every session.

All in all, I think there are plenty of ways a GM can pace an AP outside the adventure as written.

Scarab Sages

Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Maps Subscriber

We just finished Serpent's Skull. Due to some of the travelling and other exploration themes it took us just under a year in game time.


Personally it all comes down to how the GM times things out. If the PCs want to do some off book or down time that makes sense. BBEG needs time to set things up and adjust. In contrast one of the longest games I've been in, which is still going and at around 4 years out of game has been about 4 months in game and the time frame only slowed down somewhat recently. It is just the nature of the adventurer's life to push push push and then go, huh, well that wasn't that long. As the Gm if you want, gate it the other way and make it so that they have the rest. All depends on your group personally.

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