Is my rage cycling monk that stupid of an idea??


Advice


So I was talking about what I was gonna do for my back up character in a home campaign and was met with a slew of "that's really stupid an pointless" kinda feed back. I didn't really pick out any feats yet but the idea was to take 3 levels of unchained barbarian with the savage barbarian archetype, which basically nets me a little extra movement speed, the lowest form of rage, powerful stance for an extra +1 to cmd and cmd when I rage, and a dodge bonus at level three 3 so long as I wear no more armor than a shield, extra hit die and extra bab. Then the rest of my levels would be in martial artist monk which eventually gives immunity to fatigue. This I can rage cycle. Rage would mainly be used to improve cmb and bust grapes as I was going to be a small sized tiefling as well as abuse the new wording on the extra hit points per hit die (NOT just per barbarian lvl) being lost first by rage cycling when near death. I'd take the trait to get three extra rounds of rage and maybe take extra rage once or twice.
EDIT: Rage for when I'm missing or need to hit a tad harder or both too!

Sounds awesome to me, but maybe it's stupid. I was going to flavor it as while he could never master his spiritual energies like some peeps tried to teach him, but in line with the flavor of the archetype, he had near perfect control of his body, so he could freely and perfectly control his adrenaline.

So does this idea seem to have any potential?? I mean build wise, no one will ever convince not some seriously cool fluff pertaining to combat skills, but could a decent build be made from this?


These temporary hit points are lost first when a character takes damage, disappear when the rage ends, and are not replenished if the barbarian enters a rage again within 1 minute of her previous rage.
you need to finish that sentence man, it tells you that you're rage cycling for temp HP wont work.
But the idea of having rage on a monk isn't a bad idea. But unchained barb doesn't get much from rage cycling like the original barb did.


... Well there's nothing saying I can't use the normal barbarian I guess, musta forgot that bit about the hp having thought of the idea while NOT actually looking at stuff. What does the normal barbarian look like rage cycling?


you need to go for rage powers that can only be used once per rage like raging trip. And most of those either need a fairly high barb level to get like spell sunder. But if you do normal barb you don't get the extra HP, since the HP go away when you stop raging.

Personally I'd suggest going Urban bloodrager 1 and then unchained monk the rest, and this way you can use wands without UMD and you don't have to worry about alignment.


It's not stupid, no, but it does seem rather cheesy at first glace, which is probably why you're getting some negative feedback.

Personally, I'd say that kind of build needs a decent backstory for it to make sense as a character. Martial artist avoids the jarring barbarian -> lawful alignment shift, but some kind of background would help. There's a Random Background Generator somewhere that could help give you ideas if nothing else. This paragraph is my personal opinion, though, and might not be how your group plays.

Mechanically, it's a decent start. Seems like it would mostly play like a martial artist monk, so maybe check out some guides or older threads. Taking the "Extra Rage" feat once or twice should get you enough rounds to rage when you need to. Can't say much about rage cycling myself.


I've got the back story and the barbarian bit can easily be cut out as it really doesn't affect much. Just didn't find it relevant since I was strictly talking build here. Oh well perhaps it is a tad silly I suppose, or at least not practical since I was wanting to stick to monk mostly. Would've liked to do (un)monk/(un)barbarian that only took one level of monk. However the trait to get around that alignment restriction would require me to be an aasimar and they are frowned upon at our table.

As a side note I don't see how people don't think a one level dip in unchained monk is the absolute best dip for a pure martial. Use a seven branched sword, or whatever monk weapon suits you as there's tons now, and get an extra attack at full bab when you full attack for a one level dip plus some monk crap and a decent selection of bonus feats? Sold.


To get around the barbarian alignment you can just go bloodrager instead. Choose a bloodline with a good lvl 1 power, or choose one with a weak one, then trade it out for a familiar.


The best rage cycling options require higher barbarian levels, iirc. That's why the oracle (lame) 1, or buying an item, is preferred if rage cycling is wanted. Also, MA monk has no full attack solution, like barb10's beast pounce, or other monk's ki d-door for the dimensional agility line.

It looks like a good patch for flurry of misses. Depending on campaign/party, dipping mutation warrior or mutagenic mauler might also work for that. (10 minutes of buff replenished by 1 hr of alchemy work, vs X rounds/day).

+1 to staying lawful with a Bloodrager dip for Un-monk might work better if you really want that flurry of rages, although I'd miss the will save of old-monk.

Unfortunately, without being able to flurry in light armor, you miss out on the brawling enchant that keeps unarmed great, and MA can't qinggong barkskin to make up for the amulet slot. Not a downside if you were planning on using a monk weapon.

So, your idea has it's perks, but nothing really incredible that I'm seeing. Should be playable unless your party is full of mad optimizers.


noble peasant wrote:

I've got the back story and the barbarian bit can easily be cut out as it really doesn't affect much. Just didn't find it relevant since I was strictly talking build here. Oh well perhaps it is a tad silly I suppose, or at least not practical since I was wanting to stick to monk mostly. Would've liked to do (un)monk/(un)barbarian that only took one level of monk. However the trait to get around that alignment restriction would require me to be an aasimar and they are frowned upon at our table.

As a side note I don't see how people don't think a one level dip in unchained monk is the absolute best dip for a pure martial. Use a seven branched sword, or whatever monk weapon suits you as there's tons now, and get an extra attack at full bab when you full attack for a one level dip plus some monk crap and a decent selection of bonus feats? Sold.

Well flurry of blows does not work while wearing armor or using a shield or carrying a medium or heavy load. The same with the AC bonus.

That might limit your choice of builds considerably.


So first off, I think this is a cool idea - it's thematic, it's creative, and it is definitely a sort of character you see in martial arts movies, etc.

That said, it is rough mechanically - Barbarian doesn't really cover any of the weaknesses of Monk - your guy will still be MAD as hell (heh) - barbarian needs str and con, but without any armor your AC is going to be low even with a decent wisdom. So you still need Str, Dex, Con, and Wis.

- If you're only going to be immune to fatigue at very high levels, what levels are you expecting to play at, and how will the character function there?

- You're going to have very few rounds of rage unless you start spending feats on extra rage, which is already pretty suboptimal.

- Some GMs might rule that using your ki powers or monk abilities requires focus and patience, and can't even be used while raging. I think that'd be dumb but check with your GM.

- Alignment restrictions as has been pointed out - this is dumb, your GM should just waive it. That said,

noble peasant wrote:
Would've liked to do (un)monk/(un)barbarian that only took one level of monk. However the trait to get around that alignment restriction would require me to be an aasimar and they are frowned upon at our table.

Monks don't lose any abilities when they cease to be Lawful - if you were a monk 1, went berserk and dropped out, you'd keep all your powers and be nonlawful, fulfilling the Barbarian requirements.

The reverse is harder as Barbarian explicitly loses rage if you're lawful.

- I'm not sure you actually *get* that much from rage - Unchained, you'll get some temp HP (not helpful when rage cycling - in fact, you'll lose them on the first cycle and not get them back) and some bonus damage. In fact, I'm not even sure what you get from rage cycling with unchained barbarian. It seems like they removed most of the 1/rage powers anyway.

If you aren't super attached to actual barbarian levels, your best bet might be VMC barbarian. You'll get rage and a decent number of rounds, at higher levels you'll get a rage power and if you want you could use feats to get a few more. No alignment restriction, no delaying Monk abilities. I'd do perhaps a dwarf monk with high str, con, and wis - make friends with a wizard or get a wand of mage armor, some barkskin, and you'll probably be fine.


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noble peasant wrote:
As a side note I don't see how people don't think a one level dip in unchained monk is the absolute best dip for a pure martial. Use a seven branched sword, or whatever monk weapon suits you as there's tons now, and get an extra attack at full bab when you full attack for a one level dip plus some monk crap and a decent selection of bonus feats? Sold.

Umm... the inability to wear armor. Yeah, that seems like the biggest one. So unless your wis and dex are high for some reason already a dip into monk will drop your AC and/or make you reliant on mage armor. I feel a common stat block for a martial is 16+2/14/14/12/12/7 so you're losing the 6 from breastplate for a 1 from wis, 2 if you take the dodge feat. That's a 4 or 5 point drop in AC.


Paulicus wrote:
It's not stupid, no, but it does seem rather cheesy at first glace, which is probably why you're getting some negative feedback.

What kind of cheese?

I only ask since everyone has their own definition of "cheesy".

What you meant to say is in your opinion you don't like that concept. But instead went for the classic derogatory slang of "cheese".

Paulicus wrote:
Personally, I'd say that kind of build needs a decent backstory for it to make sense as a character.

Wouldn't that hold true for any build in an RPG?


Paulicus wrote:

... This paragraph is my personal opinion, though, and might not be how your group plays.

You should read the whole post before getting offended, Brain.

Besides, I just said it was cheesy, not bad. It's getting a class feature earlier than intended, like using the Samsaran alternate racial trait to get early access to higher-level spells on a caster. It's fun, but a bit cheesy.


Paulicus wrote:
Paulicus wrote:

... This paragraph is my personal opinion, though, and might not be how your group plays.

You should read the whole post before getting offended, Brain.

Besides, I just said it was cheesy, not bad. It's getting a class feature earlier than intended, like using the Samsaran alternate racial trait to get early access to higher-level spells on a caster. It's fun, but a bit cheesy.

I'm not offended. The remark wasn't even about me.

I just thought I'd mention that calling a person's concept cheese or cheesy is in fact a derogatory term. You say it's not a stupid concept or a bad concept then at the same time calling it cheese.

All you're doing is calling the concept cheap, corny, or usually used for calling something bad without directly calling it bad.

If that's not what you meant then why say it? It adds nothing to the conversation.

Back On Topic

I've used a similar build with a Barbarian with a Cord of Stubborn Resolve to use Rage Cycling. It's useful to have particularly if you can fit Spell Sunder in your rage powers.

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