Opinions of the Alley Witch archetype


Advice


I'm working on a witch for an urban AP that will almost all be in a single city, and the scaling skill & initiative boosts of this archetype seem like they'd be pretty handy.

That said, I'm not certain that I like the spell list for the not-technically-a-patron patron, or giving up the level one hex and delaying access to extra hex.

Surprisingly, the search returned 0 results for alley witch, so I have to assume it isn't very popular.

Anyone have any thoughts about why the archetype is good / bad?

Link for anyone who wants to read the archetype


It's from a supplement that's fairly new, so I imagine it's just because not everyone's noticed it yet (I hadn't), and it is very much geared toward a specific kind of campaign.

That said, ermahgerd, I may just use it for my witch in my next campaign. :o

I do hear you on it being rough to lose the first level hex, though. I'm gonna have to do some thinking on that - going through all of first level with nothing but the witch's reduced allotment of spells could be rough. For a campaign that starts above first level, though, it sounds like a pretty sweet deal.


ZanThrax wrote:
Link for anyone who wants to read the archetype

It's also up at d20pfsrd.com.

Scarab Sages

Nordom Whistleklik wrote:
ZanThrax wrote:
Link for anyone who wants to read the archetype
It's also up at d20pfsrd.com.

I prefer Archives of Nethys to d20pfsrd.com whenever possible. d20pfsrd.com has too much 3rd party content mixed with paizo and changes rules text to omit golarion specific requirements, which can have large effects on prerequisites.


Basically you're trading two hexes in return for (1) +2 to Initiative and scaling bonuses to five different skills, and (2) the ability to temporarily transfer hexes as objects. The different spell list is (IMO) about average for a witch spell list. Note that Ears of the City turns your party's Perception monkey into a fast infodump. "I burn a first level spell to learn everything that could possibly be learned with Gather Information checks" is not a bad deal.

The Hex Trader ability seems more flavorful than useful, though I'm sure some clever player can come up with ways to leverage it. Note that it explicitly allows hexes with a target of "self" to be used on others. It does seem like a handy ability for NPCs -- for 50 gold I give you the ability to cast Evil Eye once. (In fact, you could build a pretty interesting NPC with this archetype.)

This seems neither great nor awful. It's kinda situational. Are you going to be in a single city most of the time? Does your campaign emphasize skills? Does your party lack a rogue?

Doug M.


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It would be possible, although painful in the first 3 levels, to stack Alley Witch with Cartomancer (which replaces the 2nd level Hex). This would be very flavorful for a campaign in a Varisian city, if you can figure out how to make it through the 1st 3 levels with no Hexes.

By the way, Ears of the City is a normal 1st level Witch spell -- you don't absolutely have to be an Alley Witch to get it. Strangely, the duration is listed as 1 round/level, but the spell description doesn't say that you get any more information for a longer duration (you always get 1d4 hours worth of Gather Information), so go right ahead and use it at 1st level if you aren't going to get it from your Patron due to not being an Alley Witch.

Also, if you want to be able to replicate the effect of the Alley Witch's 6th level power AND you want to brew Potions anyway, you can take the Cauldron Hex and then the Witch's Bottle Hex; this is more costly in Hexes, but you choose when you take them, and you can even render a Hex Potion (which is apparently dirt cheap) inert as a Free Action if you have an emergency and need to use the Hex yourself, whereas the Alley Witch's 6th level power apparently requires you to recover the item before you can use the Hex again.


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In my case, it'll be a GMPC I'm putting together for Hell's Rebels (GMPCs are norml in our group and no one wanted to play arcane). So yes, it'll be primarily in one city, and especially since I'm supposed to be a background character (read, not over-powerful) it's a good chance to try the archetype. And the campaign does have at least a reasonable emphasis on skills (plus, increases to initiative never, ever hurt as a control-type character).

I'm trying to decide if I'll have enough I can do to be useful through first level, though. I can always spam Guidance or Resistance or use Intimidate to debuff in combat, as I am going to have at least a passable Charisma, but it's just not as good as Evil Eye/Crack-le.

(And you have no idea how much I wish Alley Witch + Cartomancer wouldn't be so painful. I'd already been planning a cartomancer, and the mix would be so cool.)


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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
The Hex Trader ability seems more flavorful than useful, though I'm sure some clever player can come up with ways to leverage it. Note that it explicitly allows hexes with a target of "self" to be used on others. It does seem like a handy ability for NPCs -- for 50 gold I give you the ability to cast Evil Eye once. (In fact, you could build a pretty interesting NPC with this archetype.)

Hand off your Slumber hex to the party rogue to deliver on a guard as she's sneaking about.


Arachnofiend wrote:
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
The Hex Trader ability seems more flavorful than useful, though I'm sure some clever player can come up with ways to leverage it. Note that it explicitly allows hexes with a target of "self" to be used on others. It does seem like a handy ability for NPCs -- for 50 gold I give you the ability to cast Evil Eye once. (In fact, you could build a pretty interesting NPC with this archetype.)
Hand off your Slumber hex to the party rogue to deliver on a guard as she's sneaking about.

It could also give you two Slumbers or Misfortunes in one round of combat - give away your token, delay until after the other person uses it, then use your own hex, since you'll have it back. Don't know for sure if it's worth burning the ability, but it could be. (It'd suck if a ne'er-do-well got hold of the token, though.)


UnArcaneElection wrote:


By the way, Ears of the City is a normal 1st level Witch spell -- you don't absolutely have to be an Alley Witch to get it. Strangely, the duration is listed as 1 round/level, but the spell description doesn't say that you get any more information for a longer duration (you always get 1d4 hours worth of Gather Information), so go right ahead and use it at 1st level if you aren't going to get it from your Patron due to not being an Alley Witch.

You don't get more information, but you do get to roll that Gather Information check again and again once per round. So by 4th or 5th level, you can be pretty sure that your perception monkey party member has acquired everything that can be found with Gather Information checks.

Doug M.


Rennaivx wrote:


It could also give you two Slumbers or Misfortunes in one round of combat - give away your token, delay until after the other person uses it, then use your own hex, since you'll have it back.

Oh, now that's nice. And RAW-legal as far as I can tell.

Doug M.

Grand Lodge

Arachnofiend wrote:
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
The Hex Trader ability seems more flavorful than useful, though I'm sure some clever player can come up with ways to leverage it. Note that it explicitly allows hexes with a target of "self" to be used on others. It does seem like a handy ability for NPCs -- for 50 gold I give you the ability to cast Evil Eye once. (In fact, you could build a pretty interesting NPC with this archetype.)
Hand off your Slumber hex to the party rogue to deliver on a guard as she's sneaking about.

Or hand off your fly hex to the party fighter or barbarian.


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Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
UnArcaneElection wrote:


By the way, Ears of the City is a normal 1st level Witch spell -- you don't absolutely have to be an Alley Witch to get it. Strangely, the duration is listed as 1 round/level, but the spell description doesn't say that you get any more information for a longer duration (you always get 1d4 hours worth of Gather Information), so go right ahead and use it at 1st level if you aren't going to get it from your Patron due to not being an Alley Witch.

You don't get more information, but you do get to roll that Gather Information check again and again once per round. So by 4th or 5th level, you can be pretty sure that your perception monkey party member has acquired everything that can be found with Gather Information checks.

You're right, I missed a piece in the text. But you can still get it without having it in your Patron, at 1st level -- and for that matter, so can a Bard, Cleric (strangely doesn't say Cleric/Oracle), Inquisitor, Shaman, Sorcerer, or Wizard.

Rennaivx wrote:

In my case, it'll be a GMPC I'm putting together for Hell's Rebels (GMPCs are norml in our group and no one wanted to play arcane). So yes, it'll be primarily in one city, and especially since I'm supposed to be a background character (read, not over-powerful) it's a good chance to try the archetype. And the campaign does have at least a reasonable emphasis on skills (plus, increases to initiative never, ever hurt as a control-type character).

I'm trying to decide if I'll have enough I can do to be useful through first level, though. I can always spam Guidance or Resistance or use Intimidate to debuff in combat, as I am going to have at least a passable Charisma, but it's just not as good as Evil Eye/Crack-le.

(And you have no idea how much I wish Alley Witch + Cartomancer wouldn't be so painful. I'd already been planning a cartomancer, and the mix would be so cool.)

I like this idea. You might also be interested in this thread about a build for a long-distance support character (which seems especially suitable for a GMPC, though not so much for a PC), although you would need to make some adjustments to the build due to FAQ/Errata since then (notably to Scarred Witch Doctor, but it is possible to do without this archetype; also no more viable Mystic Theurge option, but on the other hand, you can now do the Oracle part with VMC, and after a LONG time it gets better than the 1 level dip described in the thread, although VMC Oracle usually isn't very good).

Some other possible adjustments are noted further down in the thread (but again due to FAQ/Errata, no more viable Mystic Theurge option). With this, the GMPC would be able to transition to being more of a quest-giver and home base support NPC if needed. Beingn a home base support NPC lessens the need to be a Cartomancer (a Witch can still be a Harrower -- even going into the actual prestige class if you really want -- without being a Cartomancer, which is what you want for being a Harrower who is in the thick of things. If the GMPC ends up staying in the thick of things instead of dropping to the background, you could retrain the 2nd level Hex to the Cartomancer archetype (do this when the Witch just gained another even-numbered Witch level so that the retraining actually bumps the 2nd level Hex back to the level that you just got), instead of getting rid of it -- optionally do this as early as 4th level; also keep in mind that Cartomancer's Deadly Dealer 2nd level ability (that replaces the Hex) is really vulnerable to user error until you get to 3rd level. Retraining out the Familiar would take a bit of work, but since this is a GMPC, you could flavor this as being that the Familiar just died (not even in battle), and the Witch couldn't bear the thought of replacing the dear lost companion with another Familiar, and happened to have a Harrow deck with the Familiar's portrait painted on it, which is now the only memento the Witch has of the dear departed companion.


Some interesting ideas for hex trader.

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