So, Ascetic Style came out with Weapon Master's Handbook and I started brainstorming about the possibilities.
Here are the new builds that I could come up with. 20 point buy, human, two traits.
Looking for ideas on how to make these better!
Class: Iroran Paladin
Dual Talent?: Yes
Attributes: S16+2 D12 C14 I10 W8 CH14+2
Feats:
1. Power Attack
3. Weapon Focus (Sansetsukuon)
5. Ascetic Style
7. Ascetic Form
9. Improved Critical
11. Crusader's Strike
Gist: So the cool thing about this is that Iroran Paladin were forced to use Unarmed Strikes to benefit from their Ki Pool powers and Divine Bond.
With Ascetic Style/Form, they can apply those bonuses to a monk weapon, making it easy to enchant it, granting it the ability to count as lawful, silver, cold iron and magic for avoiding DR, and granting you the ability to spend ki to get extra strikes with a 1.5x STR weapon.
Plus, you can use Crusader's Strike with it, making you a true terror to undead.
Class: Elemental Ascetic Kineticist
Dual Talent?: Yes
Attributes: S16+2 D12 C14 I10 W15+2 CH7
Feats:
1. Toughness
3. Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff)
5. Ascetic Style
7. Ascetic Form
9. Power Attack
11. Perfect Strike
Gist: So the Elemental Ascetic is an interesting archetype, but it's too wildly inaccurate to be reliable. When it hits, though, it deals good damage.
Now, Ascetic Style/Form allow you to 2H a quarterstaff for 1.5x STR, larger Power Attack bonus, and cheaper weapon enhancements to improve accuracy.
Additionally, you can now use Elemental Flurry with it, granting you more strikes with higher power.
But the beauty is Perfect Strike (of which you'd get 1x level thanks to Ascetic Form), which is a very large boost to accuracy when you need it.
Plus, combining Kinetic Fist with a weapon thanks to Ascetic Form is just hilarious.
For your first suggestion, Secret Wizard, you're overlooking a basic problem of the Iroran Paladin - it can't use it's ki pool for an extra attack. As written, it gets to use a ki point to ignore DR, or anything that a monk can do with a ki pool. And monk's can use a ki point to get an extra attack only as part of a flurry - which Iroran Paladins don't have. (And I think you mean Crusader's Fist, rather than Crusader's Strike, yes?)
And for the second, I think that the "no matter what other abilities" language of Elemental Flurry precludes it from working with Ascetic Style.
I'm somewhat interested in seeing a Monk of the Mantis Ascetic Style with Sawtooth Sabre. Though there really isn't much of a reason to do so as the blade isn't any better than a fist. Plus, this was feasible before with Crusader's Flurry.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
heres an idea, Elf with:
Elemental Resistance (Cold)
Desert Runner
Darkvision
Fey Magic (Cold Terrain)
Fey Thoughts
Basically, a very weak cold fey, then take Elemental Ascetic (Cold) with VMC Monk then add Ascetic Style (Quarterstaff) and you have a pretty good recreation of a certain winter spirit. ;)
Paizo obviously didn't learn from the pre-errata FCT, which I think is a good thing... :P
I love the "you can apply... /snip/ ...effects that augment an unarmed strike, as if attacks with the weapon were unarmed attacks" part of Ascetic Strike, since this means everything from UAS-dependent spells and items like strong jaw and brawling armor to monk/brawler UAS damage and other UAS-enhancing class abilities applies to the weapon. At least if going by the previous FAQ on the pre-errata FCT with the same wording, though it lacked the bolded part which makes it even clearer.
This can enable tons of fun/cool/hilarious/silly previously impossible combos. The first thing that jumped to my mind was a "tripping tetori AoO grabber" with superior threatening reach for control abilities far beyond what for example Greater Whip Mastery allows. Something like:
Tetori Monk 9 for grab with weapon attacks and shutting down FoM
Brawler 2 for Flurry, required for Crusader's Flurry
Cleric 1 for Channel, also required for Crusader's Flurry
(Ragechemist Vivisectionist Alchemist 2 - maybe - for Vestigial Arms to remove the -4 penalty of grappling without two free hands, plus a nifty Str boost)
Add a say an Oni-Spawn tiefling with Fiendish Heritage for Oversized Limbs, dress him up in a Titanic armor and give him a gargantuan (colossal when enlarged) Flying Talon with an Effortless Lace, granting +20/+30 ft. reach, which he wields as a 2-handed monk weapon with a -2 penalty.
Feat/class progression would perhaps be:
1 Brawler 1: Fiendish Heritage (Oversized Limbs), IUS, (Martial Flex (retrained at 9th): Rapid Grappler?)
2 Cleric 1 (deity with Flying Talon as favored weapon)
3 Brawler 2: Crusader's Flurry, Ascetic Style
4 Tetori 1: Improved Grapple
5 Tetori 2: Dirty Fighting, Stunning Pin
7 Tetori 4: Improved Trip
9 Tetori 6: Combat Reflexes, Greater Grapple
11 Tetori 8: Greater Trip
(13 Alchemist 1: ??? retrained at 14th)
(14 Alchemist 2: Extra Discovery (2nd Vestigial Arm)
Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid in Wayfinder: Weapon Focus (Flying Talon)
The end result is an AoO controller threatening everything within a 45 ft. radius, able to trip and grab any provoking (corporeal) enemy within that area.
I'm sure this concept can be much improved though. Somehow making the Tetori able to fuse styles like the MoMS monk would be awesome, allowing for example dirty trick grabbing AoOs with Kitsune Style feats, instead of trip grabbing AoOs, and/or perhaps Grabbing Style feats. (Though dirty trick AoOs could of course be gained via the Seize the Opportunity feat if Path of War: Expanded is on the table.)
How about Stunning Fist - Dragon Style - Dragon Ferocity on a Strength based Swashbuckler?
yeah, crusader's flurry doesn't put it into another weapon group.
yeah, crusader's flurry doesn't put it into another weapon group.
Also, brawler's flurry doesn't meet the prerequisites for Crusader's Flurry, which calls for flurry of blows. Brawler's flurry does not count as flurry of blows for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements.
So aesthetic style requires that you pick a weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. Crusader's flurry allows you to treat a weapon as if it were a monk weapon for effects. While weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So aesthetic style requires that you pick a weapon from the monk fighter weapon group.
truly the most powerful of the style feat chains, because it makes it so that when you fight you look FABULOUS:p
So aesthetic style requires that you pick a weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. Crusader's flurry allows you to treat a weapon as if it were a monk weapon for effects. While weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.That depends on how you interpret the wording of "as if it were". How would you rule it if the character was level 5 in monk? The special clause for Ascetic Style says it applies to any Monk weapon and with Crusader's Flurry the katana is a Monk weapon for that character. Likewise at level 5 you can use Ascetic Style with Shuriken even though you normally have to choose a melee weapon.
Never fear! As the freelancer who designed the feat, I have a +20 insight bonus on checks made to interpret ALL of the weapon style feats.
Therein lies the important note. It is a weapon style feat. They interact with fighter weapon groups. All of the other weapon style groups apply to fighter weapon groups, and the universal weapon style rules at the start of the section specifically state that the special clause notes that it expands the use of the feats to other fighter weapon groups.
So aesthetic style requires that you pick a weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. Crusader's flurry allows you to treat a weapon as if it were a monk weapon for effects. While weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.
I think it's easily up for debate. The only thing that determines if a weapon is in the Monk fighter group... is the monk ability. If Crusader's Flurry grants it the monk ability... it's in the weapon group.
So aesthetic style requires that you pick a weapon from the monk fighter weapon group.truly the most powerful of the style feat chains, because it makes it so that when you fight you look FABULOUS:p--
I think it's easily up for debate. The only thing that determines if a weapon is in the Monk fighter group... is the monk ability. If Crusader's Flurry grants it the monk ability... it's in the weapon group.
----------------------> the joke
(You)I
I---
^
/ \
----------------------> the joke
(You)
I
I---
^
/ \
I edited my quote, I replied to the wrong post. I saw the joke and rightly ignored it.
I edited my quote, I replied to the wrong post. I saw the joke and rightly ignored it.
----------------------> the joke
(You)
I
I---
^
/ \
i seem to sense some hostility, it was just a joke man, nothin to get upset about
|
While weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.
Not all weapons in the monk fighter group have the monk weapon ability. The Tri-point Double-Edged Sword for example.
So aesthetic style requires that you pick a weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. Crusader's flurry allows you to treat a weapon as if it were a monk weapon for effects. While weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.I think it's easily up for debate. The only thing that determines if a weapon is in the Monk fighter group... is the monk ability. If Crusader's Flurry grants it the monk ability... it's in the weapon group.
First, that's not true because there are no rules that state as such. Second, Crusader's Flurry doesn't give your weapon the monk ability, it allows you to use your weapon as if it had the monk ability. Nowhere in the feat's description does it say that you also treat it as if it were in the monk fighter weapon group. Claiming that it does is like claiming that a kitsune gains the human subtype when she turns into a human with the change shape ability, and that allows her to qualify for feats with human as a prerequisite.
While weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.Tri-point Double-Edged Sword
half the weapons in the monk group make no sense to me, i can't mentally visualize this or the Lotus Blade the same way i can a Monk's Spade
|
|
oh, well... poop. If you made the thing and say it doesnt work like that then not much i can say to that. but damn it all if that doesnt kill my interest in using the feat for anything :/
There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.
|
|
half the weapons in the monk group make no sense to me, i can't mentally visualize this or the Lotus Blade the same way i can a Monk's SpadeWhile weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.Tri-point Double-Edged Sword
There you go.
oh, well... poop. If you made the thing and say it doesnt work like that then not much i can say to that. but damn it all if that doesnt kill my interest in using the feat for anything :/There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.
This is true! There are many fantastic weapons that you can already use with the style.
And believe me, trying to find ways to blur the lines between fighter weapon groups is totally on my list of freelancing goals for the Player Companion line. It is ridiculous that a brawler can't flurry with a short sword or dagger. So maybe in the months to come, Owen and I will figure out a way that'll let you use this style with the katana. For now, however, it's not possible.
There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.
I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"
There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"
here are the monk fighter weapons that I feel best work with this feat.
Weapon_____________handed__damage__crit
butterfly sword________light____1d4_____19
Broadsword, nine ring___one_____1d8_____x3
sansetsukon__________two_____1d10___19
Sword, seven-branched__E two___1d10____x3
urumi_______________E one___1d8_____18
|
|
There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"
I'll break some out by handedness:
Light:
Dan Bong. 1d3 19-20/x2 threat range, blocking, +2 to grapple, 10' throwing increment. Low damage die replaced by style.
Deer Horn Knife. 1d4 x3 crit profile, Blocking, 20' throwing increment.Low damage die replaced by style.
One handed:
Nine-section whip. 1d8 19-20/x2 threat range, blocking, distracting, and trip.
Temple Sword. 1d8 19-20 Trip. All monks are proficient, even if not unchained.
Two Handed:
Seven-branched sword. 1d10 x3 Disarm, and a unique trip to make enemies flatfooted.
Kusarigama. 1d3/1d6 x2. Multiple Damage types, double, grapple, reach, trip. Both reach and adjacent, Low damage die replaced by style.
Sansetsukon. 1d10 19-20/x2, Blocking, Disarm.
|
|
There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"here are the monk fighter weapons that I feel best work with this feat.
Weapon_____________handed__damage__crit
butterfly sword________light____1d4_____19
Broadsword, nine ring___one_____1d8_____x3
sansetsukon__________two_____1d10___19
Sword, seven-branched__E two___1d10____x3
urumi_______________E one___1d8_____18
Urumi is not a monk weapon.
Urumi is not a monk weapon.There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"here are the monk fighter weapons that I feel best work with this feat.
Weapon_____________handed__damage__crit
butterfly sword________light____1d4_____19
Broadsword, nine ring___one_____1d8_____x3
sansetsukon__________two_____1d10___19
Sword, seven-branched__E two___1d10____x3
urumi_______________E one___1d8_____18
It is on the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.
|
|
It is on the Monk Fighter Weapon Group.Urumi is not a monk weapon.There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"here are the monk fighter weapons that I feel best work with this feat.
Weapon_____________handed__damage__crit
butterfly sword________light____1d4_____19
Broadsword, nine ring___one_____1d8_____x3
sansetsukon__________two_____1d10___19
Sword, seven-branched__E two___1d10____x3
urumi_______________E one___1d8_____18
So it is... I missed that. Interesting.
Just to ask, why has noone yet named dragon ferocity with aestic style with 2 Moms levels, get 2x your strength on every swing with a two-handed weapon, what normally needed 7 fighter levels now only requires a two level dip!
MOMS errata. The dip is dead.
|
|
Just to ask, why has noone yet named dragon ferocity with aestic style with 2 Moms levels, get 2x your strength on every swing with a two-handed weapon, what normally needed 7 fighter levels now only requires a two level dip!MOMS errata. The dip is dead.
It's still useful to get two styles active at once. But you only get entry level style feats. Still it's a faster way to have multiple styles than Varisian Free Fighter or using the Weapon Style Mastery feat.
|
Just to ask, why has noone yet named dragon ferocity with aestic style with 2 Moms levels, get 2x your strength on every swing with a two-handed weapon, what normally needed 7 fighter levels now only requires a two level dip!MOMS errata. The dip is dead.
The mixing of styles is the thing i'm after, just a 1 level dip and at level 5 I add 2x my str to my damage, maybe go weapon master fighter into horizon walker so i can go into the dimension dervish tree, full attacking with a 2x str weapon is pretty strong as well as having a pseudo pounce.
There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"I'll break some out by handedness:
Light:
Dan Bong. 1d3 19-20/x2 threat range, blocking, +2 to grapple, 10' throwing increment. Low damage die replaced by style.
Deer Horn Knife. 1d4 x3 crit profile, Blocking, 20' throwing increment.Low damage die replaced by style.One handed:
Nine-section whip. 1d8 19-20/x2 threat range, blocking, distracting, and trip.
Temple Sword. 1d8 19-20 Trip. All monks are proficient, even if not unchained.Two Handed:
Seven-branched sword. 1d10 x3 Disarm, and a unique trip to make enemies flatfooted.
Kusarigama. 1d3/1d6 x2. Multiple Damage types, double, grapple, reach, trip. Both reach and adjacent, Low damage die replaced by style.
Sansetsukon. 1d10 19-20/x2, Blocking, Disarm.
The feat looks at the "Monk Fighter group" which doesn't include the Temple Sword and does include the Urumi. So getting a weapon to have the monk property doesn't help with this feat as it's looking at the fighter's weapon group.
Just to ask, why has noone yet named dragon ferocity with aestic style with 2 Moms levels, get 2x your strength on every swing with a two-handed weapon, what normally needed 7 fighter levels now only requires a two level dip!
I brought up the idea cause of a question
How does Dragon ferocity work with a two-handed weapon using ascetic style?
While using Dragon Style, increase your Strength bonus on unarmed strike damage rolls by an additional one-half your Strength bonus, to a total of double your Strength bonus on the first attack and 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the other attacks.The first part works fine, but then it has the part, "to a total of..."
Is that meant to clarify how the adding would work or is it setting hard limit of how high the str can go?
Hard limit. You get 2x STR on your first attack and 1.5x STR on later attacks. The combination is still quite interesting for, say, a Swashbuckler. Get all the benefits of wielding a 2-hander except it's a 1-hander so you're also getting Precise Strike.
So at the very least, unless you can prove otherwise, you have table variation on if you can dragon a two handed for 2x str.
Class: Master of Many Styles Monk
Dual Talent?: Yes
Attributes: S17+2 D14+2 C14 I7 W14 CH7
Feats:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Dragon Style
2. Wildcard
3. Weapon Focus (Dan Bong)
5. Ascetic Style
6. Outslug Style
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. Wildcard
11. Power Attack
Gist: How would you like to deal 1.5x damage with a 19-20 weapon that you can TWF with? Plus you have higher damage die and with Outslug Style, extra attack/damage bonuses.
TWF gives you extra attacks to enjoy.
|
|
Class: Master of Many Styles Monk
Dual Talent?: Yes
Attributes: S17+2 D14+2 C14 I7 W14 CH7
Feats:
1. Two-Weapon Fighting, Dragon Style
2. Wildcard
3. Weapon Focus (Dan Bong)
5. Ascetic Style
6. Outslug Style
9. Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
10. Wildcard
11. Power AttackGist: How would you like to deal 1.5x damage with a 19-20 weapon that you can TWF with? Plus you have higher damage die and with Outslug Style, extra attack/damage bonuses.
TWF gives you extra attacks to enjoy.
You can't take a wildcard feat until 6th level, but you could simply move up Ascetic Style to second level as MoMS can skip the weapon focus requirement.
|
|
The feat looks at the "Monk Fighter group" which doesn't include the Temple Sword and does include the Urumi. So getting a weapon to have the monk property doesn't help with this feat as it's looking at the fighter's weapon group.There are very good weapons in the monk weapon group that this chain is awesome with. The only thing you miss out on is a 18-20 threat range.I'm no expert at monk weapons so by all means inform us, because right now this went from "This could be fun" to "Why would I want to waste my feats on this?"I'll break some out by handedness:
Light:
Dan Bong. 1d3 19-20/x2 threat range, blocking, +2 to grapple, 10' throwing increment. Low damage die replaced by style.
Deer Horn Knife. 1d4 x3 crit profile, Blocking, 20' throwing increment.Low damage die replaced by style.One handed:
Nine-section whip. 1d8 19-20/x2 threat range, blocking, distracting, and trip.
Temple Sword. 1d8 19-20 Trip. All monks are proficient, even if not unchained.Two Handed:
Seven-branched sword. 1d10 x3 Disarm, and a unique trip to make enemies flatfooted.
Kusarigama. 1d3/1d6 x2. Multiple Damage types, double, grapple, reach, trip. Both reach and adjacent, Low damage die replaced by style.
Sansetsukon. 1d10 19-20/x2, Blocking, Disarm.
Temple Sword is in the monk weapon group using Humans of Golarion. It's not a PFS legal soruce, but it clearly should be in the monk group.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
To summarize the classification issues:
The following are Monk special weapons and are in the Fighter weapon group (Monk).
bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, deer horn knife, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, hanbo, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungchuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork, tonfa, unarmed strike, and wushu dart
The following are not Monk special weapons but are in the Fighter weapon group (Monk).
tri-point double-edged sword and urumi
The following are Monk special weapons but are not in the Fighter weapon group (Monk).
knuckle axe, bich'hwa, and temple sword
Just to ask, why has noone yet named dragon ferocity with aestic style with 2 Moms levels, get 2x your strength on every swing with a two-handed weapon, what normally needed 7 fighter levels now only requires a two level dip!MOMS errata. The dip is dead.
MoMS 2 is still good for this, because you want to be picking up the Dragon Style and Ascetic Style feats with your bonus feats anyways. Dragon Ferocity isn't terribly useful until you can qualify for it normally anyways.
How about a Dual Talent Human Cleric X / UnMonk 1 of the Lost Prince, who flurries with a quarterstaff and uses it to deliver stunning fists + touch of madness?
Something like 16+2/12/14/10/15+2/7 for maximum hurt.
How about a Dual Talent Human Cleric X / UnMonk 1 of the Lost Prince, who flurries with a quarterstaff and uses it to deliver stunning fists + touch of madness?
Something like 16+2/12/14/10/15+2/7 for maximum hurt.
very nice, but I don't see the need for Human,we're not very feat starved. And if we forgoe flurry, we can make a devcent two-handed build with heavy armor.
1 U-Monk: IUS (free), Stunning Fist (free), Power Attack
2 Cleric (Crusader): Weapon Focus (Quarterstaff) (free)
3 Cleric (Crusader): Ascetic Style
4 Cleric (Crusader): -
5 Cleric (Crusader): Domain Strike, Heavy Armor Prof. (free)
The fighters monk weapon group has the problem that it wasn´t updated in a very long time. Since then plenty of weapons came out which have the monk weapon property.
The CRB monk has a problem there, which was solved for the UC monk by saying she is proficient with all weapons that have the monk weapon special property.
Unfortunately, not all weapons with the monk weapon special property are in the fighters monk weapon group.
That´s something that could be adressed at some point somehow.
I would also love to ask Mr. Augunas if ascetic style should be strictly restricted to the fighters monk weapon group as printed in the CRB or some leeway allowed with "monk" weapons, especially for the UC monk.
And i want to point out his own comment at that feat on his most often interesting blog.
I don't see the reason to go quarterstaff unless you have access to Shililagh. There are several superior options in monk weapons to the quarterstaff.
Weapon Masters Handbooks khakkhara, that monk staff with the rings and bells on top like in so many pics: 1d8*3 b damage, twohanded weapon.