Some Ascetic Style Builds


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Imbicatus wrote:
I don't see the reason to go quarterstaff unless you have access to Shililagh. There are several superior options in monk weapons to the quarterstaff.

Oh, the quarterstaff was mainly because it is a simple weapon, so you can flurry with a Holy Ice Weapon, and still benefit from Touch of Madness w/o having a conductive weapon. Also, it makes it possible to go Guided Hand, but that's sort of besides the point.

Scarab Sages

Pounce wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
I don't see the reason to go quarterstaff unless you have access to Shililagh. There are several superior options in monk weapons to the quarterstaff.
Oh, the quarterstaff was mainly because it is a simple weapon, so you can flurry with a Holy Ice Weapon, and still benefit from Touch of Madness w/o having a conductive weapon. Also, it makes it possible to go Guided Hand, but that's sort of besides the point.

Ah, I hadn't considered Holy Ice Weapon. That makes sense.


Hayato Ken wrote:


And i want to point out his own comment at that feat on his most often interesting blog.

Talking about that one single section of that blog (not to muddy the waters), I can say with confidence that I am very curious about this Aesthetic Style featline.

I'm sure someone as alluring in countenance and poise as N. Jolly would appreciate it.


Secret Wizard wrote:
Hayato Ken wrote:


And i want to point out his own comment at that feat on his most often interesting blog.

Talking about that one single section of that blog (not to muddy the waters), I can say with confidence that I am very curious about this Aesthetic Style featline.

I'm sure someone as alluring in countenance and poise as N. Jolly would appreciate it.

Clearly it is meant to give Monks an incentive to have a positive charisma modifier, putting the flash back in flashy martial arts!


You mean you all don't take "Perform(Dramatic Posing)" on all of your monk characters?


PossibleCabbage wrote:
You mean you all don't take "Perform(Dramatic Posing)" on all of your monk characters?

Only on my Sun/Repose Sacred Fist Warpriests and my Overwhelming Soul Spiritualists.

Scarab Sages

I though that was just an unarmed dazzling display.


Imbicatus wrote:
I though that was just an unarmed dazzling display.

That'd imply it has any other purpose than looking fabulous.


For an Ascetic-Dragon TWF build, a single level of MoMS is all that's needed to secure both hands having full Power Attack and Dragon Style. Doing the rest as a Two-Weapon Warrior Fighter or whatever else is enormously more effective.

Some other notable exploits for Ascetic Style would be Brawling Armor and Domain Strike or Hex Strike or whatever other Strike; or exploiting Weapon Finesse or Guided Hand with a weapon that wouldn't normally be playable with them.


Marking for interest.

Grand Lodge

Alexander Augunas wrote:
Torbyne wrote:
Alexander Augunas wrote:
So aesthetic style requires that you pick a weapon from the monk fighter weapon group. Crusader's flurry allows you to treat a weapon as if it were a monk weapon for effects. While weapons in the monk fighter weapon group always have the monk ability, choosing a weapon with Crusader's Flurry does not allow you to add that weapon to the monk fighter weapon group. Please keep that in mind when building shenanigans.
That depends on how you interpret the wording of "as if it were". How would you rule it if the character was level 5 in monk? The special clause for Ascetic Style says it applies to any Monk weapon and with Crusader's Flurry the katana is a Monk weapon for that character. Likewise at level 5 you can use Ascetic Style with Shuriken even though you normally have to choose a melee weapon.

Never fear! As the freelancer who designed the feat, I have a +20 insight bonus on checks made to interpret ALL of the weapon style feats.

Therein lies the important note. It is a weapon style feat. They interact with fighter weapon groups. All of the other weapon style groups apply to fighter weapon groups, and the universal weapon style rules at the start of the section specifically state that the special clause notes that it expands the use of the feats to other fighter weapon groups.

Even though you wrote the feat, you didn't write exactly what you just said in the book.

Weapon Fighting Styles wrote:
Although unarmed fighting styles are often more storied, martial traditions exist for every kind of arms. These weapon fighting styles are embodied by style feats, following the usual rules for such feats as described on page 78 of Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat. Instead of requiring Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, however, all weapon fighting styles include Weapon Focus as a prerequisite. Weapon style feats can be used only in conjunction with the weapon chosen for Weapon Focus, but count as style feats for all other purposes. Characters with certain class features can broaden the application of weapon style feats to include additional weapons, as described by the feat.
Then
Ascetic Style wrote:
Special: A 5th-level monk or character with the weapon training (monk) class feature can use Ascetic Style with any monk weapon, in addition to the chosen melee weapon

So a 5th level monk can use Ascetic Style with any monk weapon, Crusaders Flurry lets you treat your deities favored weapon as a monk weapon.. Why doesn't this work exactly?


Any weapon in the monk group. Not a weapon with the Monk special quality.


Here's one on the arcane side -

Elven Quivering-Blade Master
Sohei 1/ Wizard 6/ Eldritch Knight 2
Elf (Overwhelming Magic): 13STR, 15/17+DEX, 14\12CON, 15/17+INT, 10WIS, 8CHA
Traits: Magical Knack, Wayang Spellhunter: Elemental Touch
Favored Class Bonus: +3/day Shift

1So. Weapon Finesse / +Monk: Dodge / +Elf: Spell Focus: Evocation
2Wz. *Teleportation Subschool: Shift* / Arcane Bond: Amulet
3Wz. Weapon Focus: 9-Ring Broadsword
4Wz.
5Wz. Ascetic Style
6Wz. +Wizard: Dazing Spell
7Wz. Toughness
8EK. +Power Attack
9EK. Arcane Armor Training

Ascetic Style at 5 allows for the use of Brawling Armor, an Agile Amulet of Mighty Fists, and Elemental Touch with the 9-ring broadsword.

Before level 9, Elemental Touch (electricity) is used to inflict the staggered condition while kiting with Shift; once Dazing Elemental Touch becomes available, Elemental Touch (acid) is used to repeatedly daze victims that fail the first save. By level 9, the Quivering-Blade Master can 'pounce' up to 20 feet with a 5ft. step and 15ft. teleport, making up to 4 melee strikes that each threaten daze with Elemental Touch. Brawling Armor and Heroism keep attack bonus decent despite flurry and BAB; overall damage is kept high by solid DEX damage, two-handed Power Attack, Brawling Armor and Elemental Touch.

Grand Lodge

Chess Pwn wrote:
Any weapon in the monk group. Not a weapon with the Monk special quality.

It doesn't say "any weapon in the monk fighter weapon group" specifically though. And honestly I'm not trying to be "that guy" or anything. It's just worth pointing out there are other interpretations. Or at the very least, these feats have some wording problems.


^Which again brings up the question of why the Monk Fighter Weapon Group does not correspond fully to weapons that have the Monk property.


There are a few cases where it's productive, like the fact that the tri-point double-edged sword gives the Monk group a reach weapon even if you can't flurry with it... usually. Generally though, it's an odd situation where weapons seem to be included on a conceptual level.

Scarab Sages

There are two weapons in the monk fighter group that don't have the monk property: The urumi and tri-point double-edged sword. I think this was either one of the many editing errors in Ultimate Combat, or a deliberate last minute change because the thought of a monk flurrying with a 1d10 /x3 reach weapon or a weapon with 18-20 crit profile was deemed too good.


Has this already been mentioned here?

Blog post wrote:
Monk: Bo staff, brass knuckles, butterfly sword, cestus, dan bong, deer horn knife, double chained kama, double chicken saber, emei piercer, fighting fan, hanbo, jutte, kama, kusarigama, kyoketsu shoge, lungchuan tamo, monk's spade, nine-ring broadsword, nine-section whip, nunchaku, quarterstaff, rope dart, sai, sansetsukon, seven-branched sword, shang gou, shuriken, siangham, tiger fork, tonfa, tri-point double-edged sword, unarmed strike, urumi, and wushu dart

source:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5li4u?Weapon-TrainingAnd-So-Many-Weapon s

Edit: I did not check it for changes. But other groups had weapons added.


Chess Pwn wrote:
Any weapon in the monk group. Not a weapon with the Monk special quality.

While i accept that the author has clearly stated it does not work the point being raised seems to be "monk weapon" is not a game term, Monk Weapon Group is a defined term, as is the weapon quality: Monk. I misinterpreted the meaning at first reading of the feat and thought as Oncoming_Storm does. I probably wouldnt have been convinced otherwise without Alexander Augunas stating his clarification.


and any weapon with the monk special weapon quality.

This is from the UMonk. It shows the wording for a weapon with the monk special weapon quality. It isn't a monk weapon. Monk weapons are weapons in the monk group. Like a polearm is defined as what's in the polearm weapon group.


Chess Pwn wrote:

and any weapon with the monk special weapon quality.

This is from the UMonk. It shows the wording for a weapon with the monk special weapon quality. It isn't a monk weapon. Monk weapons are weapons in the monk group. Like a polearm is defined as what's in the polearm weapon group.

I am confused by the way you wrote that... i guess this is a serious propblem for me :P

Weapons monks can use, the monk special weapon quality and the Monk Weapon Group are all different but highly overlapping game terms and could be thought to be referenced as a "monk weapon" until Mr. Augunas' post i defaulted to monk weapon equals a weapon with the monk quality.

To make matters worse, when Mr. Augunas wrote "can use Ascetic Style with any monk weapon" in his feat he was clearly thinking of weapons in the Monk Weapon Group. The feat i was looking at, Crusader's Flurry, uses the exact same words, "as if it were a monk weapon", to refer to the Monk special weapon quality and not monk weapon as in Monk Weapon Group, apparently.

Can you see how i confused the term "monk weapon" with the separate term "monk weapon"?


This is still bugging me... Ascetic Style has been made clear that its use of the term monk weapon means a weapon in the monk weapon group while the same term in Crusader's Flurry has to mean the monk special weapon quality instead of weapon group due to the feat intending to allow you to flurry with it which checks against properties and not weapon group. still bitter over the loss of a character concept i guess :/


Torbyne wrote:
This is still bugging me... Ascetic Style has been made clear that its use of the term monk weapon means a weapon in the monk weapon group while the same term in Crusader's Flurry has to mean the monk special weapon quality instead of weapon group due to the feat intending to allow you to flurry with it which checks against properties and not weapon group. still bitter over the loss of a character concept i guess :/

Considering Crusader's Flurry mainly just lets you use a non-flurry weapon to flurry with, why not just use a monk group weapon? There are at least a few deities with monk group weapons that wouldn't need Crusader's Flurry. Crossing Ascetic Style (Quarterstaff) with Spear Dancing Spiral also allows you to use Ascetic Style (and flurry) with any polearm.

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