Arcanist Build, Lvl 1 Rise of the Runelords Campaign


Advice


We’re playing Rise of the Runelords. Our party will have the following composition:

Slayer Melee > High system mastery
Unchained Rogue/Ninja > Never plays casters. Decent system mastery
Oracle of Life > Full healer/support. Low system mastery. Do not expect convuleted use of spells. He’ll be also taking the Achievement Feat Healer’s Touch
My build is the following
Human Arcanist School Savant Conjuration Teleport (Opposition Schools Enchantment – Divination)

-Traits-
Clever Wordplay - UMD You attempt checks with that skill using your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier.
Undecided Trait
Undecided Campaign Trait

-Feats-
1 – H – Scribe Scroll
3 –
5 – – Exploit: Familiar – Quick Study – Potent Magic (help with decision order)
7 –
9 –
11 –
13 –
15 – Spell Perfection (no spell decided)
17 –
19 –

-Skills-
Spellcraft
UMD
Arcana
Dungeoneering
Nature
Planes
Undecided
Undecided

So, my major problem relies on the following:
Should I focus on Summon? That means going SF Conjuration, Augment Summoning, Summon Good Monsters and Superior Summoning.

My main issue with this is that I gain access to new spell level really late.
So my strategy could be either to Crowd Control the enemy and hope my team kills them, or use the extra amount of spells I have to cast SM non stop in case of troubles.
Also, using SM could lead to more creatures, more time and might make combat slower and I don't want to do that. It's annoying when I'm rolling 10 times because of my monsters. I haven't found a way to make summoning faster, so I accept advice.

If I don't focus on Summons, which feats should I take? And which spells? This is where I get lost. I'm the arcane guy, I shouldn't be using Blast spells that much, but it's my first time playing an Arcane guy.

How do I like to play? I enjoy helping, being supportish and enhancing my party. I don't mind not doing damage but I wanna feel useful.


I am not an Arcanist expert, but with your party makeup then being a "God Wizard" Battlefield Controller seems to make sense. Arguably that role can be filled with little investment as long as you pick your spells carefully. Summoning can be one aspect of this, and specialising in it is a strong option.

Making sure you've got a decent mix of Control options, targeting different saves, area denial, walls etc will make you invaluable. Have a secondary role too - buffs or blasts once you've prepared the battlefield.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

There are enough good Conjuration spells (Grease, Glue Seal, Glitterdust, etc) that taking spell focus in that is probably worth it.

I would not go summoning route with that archetype. If you want summoning, take the Occultist archetype and have a decent Charisma so you can refill your pool.

If you are going to summon creatures, make sure you have their stats written down on an index card or sheet of paper, have Handle Animal skill for the animals, and have the proper languages for the others. Best if you have minis selected and ready for the summons you intend to use a lot as well.

As for exploits, I would take the Potent Magic exploit first. When you really need it, you can make it that tiny amount more difficult for the main enemies to save against whatever spell you are casting.


BretI wrote:

There are enough good Conjuration spells (Grease, Glue Seal, Glitterdust, etc) that taking spell focus in that is probably worth it.

I would not go summoning route with that archetype. If you want summoning, take the Occultist archetype and have a decent Charisma so you can refill your pool.

If you are going to summon creatures, make sure you have their stats written down on an index card or sheet of paper, have Handle Animal skill for the animals, and have the proper languages for the others. Best if you have minis selected and ready for the summons you intend to use a lot as well.

As for exploits, I would take the Potent Magic exploit first. When you really need it, you can make it that tiny amount more difficult for the main enemies to save against whatever spell you are casting.

Poblem with Arcanist is that I get access to high level spells really late and it still takes 1 full round to cast.

Do you think summoning creatures is still useful without focusing on it? Maybe I should just take Augment Summoning just for the sake of it?

If I don't focus on that, what do I have left? Taking metamagic feats doesn't make sense early, I can barely use them.
I need to check with my DM but I might go the crafting route, taking Craft WI and Craft Wands/Rod, do you think that's viable?

Do you have other suggestions?
Maybe taking Greater Spell focus conjuration?


Going first is never bad. If in doubt, consider Improved Initiative.


Corvino wrote:
Going first is never bad. If in doubt, consider Improved Initiative.

I could potentially get a +7

+4 Imp Ini
+2 Reactionary
+1 DEX

I know my DEX is REALLY low, but I prefer having higher CON. Considering I'm a caster I need 20 INT, everyone always talking about maxing the stat.
I don't feel like playing a 7 CHA PC, so I'm sticking to 10-10 WIS/CHA.

If my DM is ok with it I'm gonna focus con Crafting (WI, Rods, Wands) with Familiar that has archetype Cooperative Crafting.


You can try Words of Power if you want top tier with battlefield control. It allows you to summon as standard action and somehow apply metamagic for free. It requires high system mastery.


Going first is really important for battlefield control.
You can choose Exile as campaign trait to get +2 bonus to initiative.
There is maybe a way by getting initiative bonus through divinator wizard via variant multiclassing.

You can combine it with wildblooded – Sage sorcerer with inteligence as main ability and still get familiar via wizard secondary class and still be a bit of a party face with student of philosophy trait.


Natural 1s wrote:
You can try Words of Power if you want top tier with battlefield control. It allows you to summon as standard action and somehow apply metamagic for free. It requires high system mastery.

No WoP for me, way too complex.

The other one uses Variant Multiclass which we aren't honestly using.

I'll have to check if it's possible to be effective summoner without time sink, or I'll take Crafting Feats+Imp Ini


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Letric wrote:


Poblem with Arcanist is that I get access to high level spells really late and it still takes 1 full round to cast.
Do you think summoning creatures is still useful without focusing on it? Maybe I should just take Augment Summoning just for the sake of it?

You get your spells at the same level as a Sorcerer. Assuming you don't multi-class, that isn't really late.

I think you gave several good reasons to not go focused on summoning. The biggest single reason is it crowds the battlefield and can slow down combats.

Quote:

If I don't focus on that, what do I have left? Taking metamagic feats doesn't make sense early, I can barely use them.

I need to check with my DM but I might go the crafting route, taking Craft WI and Craft Wands/Rod, do you think that's viable?

Do you have other suggestions?
Maybe taking Greater Spell focus conjuration?

The first step is to figure out what spells you will normally be using and what exploits. You've got a start on the exploits.

Once you have spells and exploits, look at how your archetype helps you use them. Look at which of your exploits need Charisma to help you decide if you need to put ability points in there.

Then go with it and don't be afraid to adjust course as you go through the adventure path.

With most Adventure Paths, there usually isn't a lot of down time. If you do decide to pick up item crafting feats, you probably only want the ones that are fast -- Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, etc. If it takes more than a couple of days to craft, you may find no one wants to give you the time to do it.


Or you can take occultist archetype which allows you to summon as standard action for minutes/level at the same level wizard get acces to them. Check the guide.

Grand Lodge

Take Occultist archetype or go wizard.

For a campaign trait take Lore seeker. Pick 3 spells and get +1 to the CL and DC of the spell. (I used glitterdust, magic jar, and command undead.) But I played a Gluttony Thassalionian specialist.

For most the campaign will and Reflex bwill be ideal saves to target. Late in the campaign fort saves will be hard to land.

Be prepared for LONG adventuring days. That is why I recommend occultist. A slumber witch just wrecks a good portion of the campaign.

The Exchange

You don't need handle animal for summoning stuff. Summoned creatures automatically attack your opponents. If we are talking from a game balance perspective, expecting a lv 1 wizard to push his eagles to attack, with a DC 25 handle animal check will just screw the wizard/cleric/witch over.

Even a druid would would be hard pressed to make that check for the first 5 levels or so.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Handle Animal is so that you can have the critters do something other than just attack. Things like Aid Another, Flank, or Guard.


-Traits-
Clever Wordplay - UMD You attempt checks with that skill using your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier.
Undecided Trait
Lore Seeker Campaign +1DC to 3 Spells. Glitterdust, 2 others left

-Feats-
1 – Spell Focus Conjuration H – Scribe Scroll
3 – Greater Spell Focus Conjuration
5 – Persistent Spell – Exploit: Potent Magic
7 –
9 – Exploit: Quick Study
11 –
13 –
15 – Spell Perfection (no spell decided)

Should I take Scribe Scroll? It seems I'd expend more money to craft scrolls than Wizard/Cleric/Druid, is it still worth?

Spells
1- Mage Armor, Grease, Unseen Servant, Silent Image, Vanish, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Faether Fall
2- Glitterdust, Web + Blur, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Defending Bone, False Life, Darkvision, Levitate
3- Dispel Magic - *Aqueous Orb, *Ash Storm, Mad Monkeys, *Phantom Steed, Sleet Storm, Stinking Cloud, *Heroism, Blacklight, *Chain of Perdition, Fireball, *Tiny Hut, *Wind Wall, *Invisibility Sphere, *Eldritch Ague, *Ray of Exhaustion, *Countless Eyes, Fly, *Gaseous Form, Haste, *Shifting Sand, *Shrink Item, *Slow
4- *Globe of Invulnerability, *Stoneskin, *Dimensional Door, *Secure Shelter, *Illusory Wall, *Greater Invisibility, *Enervation

This is my idea of Spells. Those marked with * are not necessary.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Quote:


Spells
1- Mage Armor, Grease, Unseen Servant, Silent Image, Vanish, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Faether Fall
2- Glitterdust, Web + Blur, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Defending Bone, False Life, Darkvision, Levitate
3- Dispel Magic - *Aqueous Orb, *Ash Storm, Mad Monkeys, *Phantom Steed, Sleet Storm, Stinking Cloud, *Heroism, Blacklight, *Chain of Perdition, Fireball, *Tiny Hut, *Wind Wall, *Invisibility Sphere, *Eldritch Ague, *Ray of Exhaustion, *Countless Eyes, Fly, *Gaseous Form, Haste, *Shifting Sand, *Shrink Item, *Slow
4- *Globe of Invulnerability, *Stoneskin, *Dimensional Door, *Secure Shelter, *Illusory Wall, *Greater Invisibility, *Enervation

.

Ok let me trim this down (as having played the campaign 2 times through as a full caster)....I can help you gut some of these spells that will seem be redundant or not useful at all. Remember that Reflex and Will saves are going to be your best targets...against a majority of the campaign the enemy will have an outragous Con and Fort save by extension.

1- Mage Armor (I recommend a Wand of this for 750gp), Grease, Silent Image, Vanish, Ray of Enfeeblement, Enlarge Person, Feather Fall (Level 3+), Blood Money, Endure Elements (Mid/late game), Shield, Color Spray or Sleep (for the first 4 levels)

2- Glitterdust, Invisibility, Mirror Image, Defending Bone, False Life, Darkvision, Levitate, Create Pit, Command Undead (every book has them and good way to turn the Creatures against the DM and using them to take the parties beating)

3- Dispel Magic, Resist Energy Communal, *Aqueous Orb, *Ash Storm, *Phantom Steed, *Heroism, *Chain of Perdition, Fireball, Lightning Bolt, *Tiny Hut, *Invisibility Sphere, *Ray of Exhaustion, *Countless Eyes, Fly, *Gaseous Form, Haste, *Shifting Sand, Summon Monster 3 (this is the first good Summon monster)

4-*Stoneskin, Emergency Force Sphere, Death Ward (Very helpful in parts) *Dimensional Door, *Illusory Wall, *Greater Invisibility, *Enervation, Confusion, Wall of Fire, Fear, SM 4, Arcane Eye (scouting 101. If you have someone wanting to be the stealth guy...don't let him...at this point things will kill him if he is caught alone...I'm saving a PCs life with this spell)

5- Life Bubble (this spell wrecks parts of Book 4,5, and 6) ((Use with Cloudkill strategy), Cloud Kill, Stoneskin Communal, Teleport (Very useful), Wall of Stone and/or Wall of force, SM 5, Dominate Person (plenty of "Humaniods" to turn against the DM), Magic Jar (similiar to Dominate but can be done through walls), Waves of Fatigue, Permanency

6- Dispel Magic, Greater, Acid Fog (not easily resisted and NO saving throw), Legend Lore (hand full of artifacts in this campaign), SM 6, Greater Heroism (Immunity to fear, Temp HP, and +4 to saves. But immunity to fear will be a MAJOR blessing), Mass Suggestion (Suggest they go Buy potions or Go hunting that should take a few hours and take them out of the fight), Contingency, Sirocco (amazing spell), Chain Lightning, Disintegrate (for tearing through Walls of Force and other barriers), Stone to Flesh, Form of the Dragon 1

7- Spell Turning (Cause hahaha), Plane Shift (you will need it and is decent for offense as well), SM 7, Limited Wish, Waves of Exhaustion (No Save), Control Undead (Cause hahaha)

8- Protection from Spells (Trust me you want the BEST saves possible), Prismatic Wall, Maze (no save...goodbye), SM 8, Form of the Dragon 3

9- You wont reach these...campaign fights final boss at level 17...only if your on Wizard/Cleric spell progression will you see this...and if you switch to Wizard...TIME STOP, WISH, GATE, DOMINATE MONSTER

Quote:

-Traits-

Clever Wordplay - UMD You attempt checks with that skill using your Intelligence modifier instead of your Charisma modifier.
Undecided Trait
Lore Seeker Campaign +1DC to 3 Spells. Glitterdust, 2 others left

-Feats-
1 – Spell Focus Conjuration H – Scribe Scroll
3 – Greater Spell Focus Conjuration
5 – Persistent Spell – Exploit: Potent Magic
7 –
9 – Exploit: Quick Study
11 –
13 –
15 – Spell Perfection (no spell decided)

For your other trait I like Magical lineage- (Pick a spell...Lore seeker it too...make it your Signature spell)

A few Feats I recommend:

Craft wondrous item (80% of your items are wondrous)

Spell Penetration I recommend this for your 7th level feat. Then craft Dweomer's Essences to get an extra +5 with Craft wondrous Item. You will run into SR quite a bit...as well as a handful of Constructs between books...be prepared for those (pit spells work on most of them)

Quicken Spell at 13.

Scribe Scroll- I say keep it...you and the parties Divine caster can make scrolls together. Having a library will help your long adventuring days. Having a full library of Remove X is very wise.

Dazing Spell is very nice. Acid Arrow, Fireball, Wall of Fire, Flaming Sphere/Aggressive T-Cloud....are all good targets. Plus you do need pre-reqs for Spell perfection.


-Feats-
1 – Spell Focus Conjuration H – Scribe Scroll
3 – Craft Wondrous Items
5 – Extra Exploit: Familiar (Valet Archetype) – Exploit: Potent Magic
7 – Persistent Spell – Exploit: None
9 – Spell Penetration – Exploit: Quick Study
11 –
13 – Quicken Spell
15 – Spell Perfection (no spell decided)

I can take Magical Lineage Glitterdust, with Persistent Spell at level 7 I can Persistent Glitterdust a lot, and will have a pretty decent DC.
I know this strategy will stop working at around level 10, that's why I'm a little hesitant to take a Trait for only 1 spell. Do you think I should chose another spell?
For my Lore Seeker Spells I was thinking about Color Spray (will work even late game, though small chance), Glitterdust (or another spell chosen for Magical Lineage), and no idea for 3rd one.

Also, do you think SF Conjuration is necessary? I took it because I didn't know what to take.
I mean SF+Potent Magic+Greater SF is a +4 to DC, or +3, seems quite important, but not sure if Spell Focus is worth it alone.

Considering our DM likes to follow the rules, from my understand I can neat a total of 8 hs/day (minium 4 hs block) if I dedicate time to crafting (I'll need a laboratory/shrine according to the rules), and having Valet Familiar I'll be doing 2000gp worth of work.
How do I get a laboratory/shrine while adventuring?

If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night.
If time is dedicated to creation, it must be spent in uninterrupted 4-hour blocks. This work is generally done in a controlled environment, where distractions are at a minimum, such as a laboratory or shrine. Work that is performed in a distracting or dangerous environment nets only half the amount of progress (just as with the adventuring caster).

Why Valet Familiar? Gets me more crafting in same time. I'll be the only one with this feat and I played some RotR and we had little downtime, this will help me get things out faster for me and my party, specially low level items that costs up to 2k gold.

Regarding spell selection: why Magic Armor on a wand? You think it's better to have it there in case of danger without wasting a prepared spell? Seems logical.

What do you think about School Savant Archetype? I think the possibility to prepare an additional spell is too strong considering how limited I am.


Change of plans, DM switched to 15 pt buy

STR 7
DEX 12
CON 14
INT 18
WIS 10
CHA 12 > Consume Spells uses CHA Modifier

Or

STR 7
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 20
WIS 10 / 8
CHA 8 / 10

Or

STR 7
DEX 13
CON 14
INT 20
WIS 8
CHA 7

I'm REALLY inclined on going for the first one, I know that +2 INT is +1 DC +1 Skill Points, but I don't think it's worth it if I have to dump so many other things.

I don't wanna play a 7 CHA player either. I think I get the best of everything. A really high INT, more than decent CON for a caster (+1hp/lvl for favored class, making it a 16), I could drop SF Conjuration and get Thoughness, virtually an 18 CON + enhancing items.

I know having high INT helps, but the costs not worth it. Also we're not all experienced players, and we made lots of mistakes, so being extra careful is always good.


Anything new in the last few years`?

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Arcanist Build, Lvl 1 Rise of the Runelords Campaign All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.