7-11 Ancients Anguish


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5/5 *****

I am reading through this one in preparation for running it in the next couple of weeks and there is one awkward omission.

The DC for high tier in the Children of the Sands encounter isn't provided. It says "In Subtier 10–11, increase the DCs and
effective ACs of all checks made to earn their trust" without giving the number. (Page 11)

What should the modifier be?

Otherwise this looks like a great adventure, I am looking forward to running it.

5/5 *****

Also, the module is missing the stat blocks for the

Spoiler:
Greater Shadows

They are not guaranteed to turn up but if they do...

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

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Checking in to answer any questions I can. :-)

I also noticed that the AC/DC increase was missing while leafing through the scenario this morning. It should say "...increase the DCs and effective ACs... by 3." Sorry about the omission!

(Disclaimer: This is not official errata, but I recommend using that value until/unless John says otherwise.)

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Washington—Spokane

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Mikko Kallio wrote:

Checking in to answer any questions I can. :-)

I also noticed that the AC/DC increase was missing while leafing through the scenario this morning. It should say "...increase the DCs and effective ACs... by 3." Sorry about the omission!

(Disclaimer: This is not official errata, but I recommend using that value until/unless John says otherwise.)

Thank you for chiming in on this one as I know I will be running it very soon in my area. If I am not mistaken any corrections made by a scenario author on the message boards are considered official errata unless otherwise noted by the John or Linda.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

Preston Hudson wrote:
If I am not mistaken any corrections made by a scenario author on the message boards are considered official errata unless otherwise noted by the John or Linda.

Thanks, that's useful to know!

5/5 *****

OK, stat blocks have been prepped and I have another question.

Spoiler:
The scorpion people at high tier are listed as having poisoned their weapons but no poison is listed on their equipment. As we to assume they are poisoning their weapons with their own venom? I have assumed so.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

andreww wrote:

OK, stat blocks have been prepped and I have another question.

** spoiler omitted **

Yes, that's also my assumption. I think the only place where it's explicitly mentioned is the quick striker entry in Inner Sea Monster Codex (page 38): "They spread their venom across whatever weapons they wield, trusting the poison to linger even after they vanish from battle."

5/5 *****

OK, I have a few more queries about the set up.

Spoiler:
The sanctum section is noted as being warded from teleportation and the door is extremely difficult to get through. That leads to a few questions:

1. Is teleportation blocked both into and out of the sanctum? Is it blocked within? I assume the answer to the latter is no given Sinuhoteps Space Rending Spell ability.

2. The door is pretty impenetrable but what about the surrounding walls? Adamantine weapons are pretty ubiquitous at this level.

3. Are divination effects impacted at all? Gloves of Reconnaissance are very common at this level which may spoil quite a bit of the surprise.

4. Likewise, using summoned elementals to earth glide through the walls to scout is a common tactic although I imagine Sinuhotep would deal with them rather easily.

Lastly I just want to say thanks for a very interesting end boss. I rather pity any party that chooses to fight him, especially if run to his full potential. Surma also looks like a great fight. Choosing summons effectively immune to her gaze attack made me chuckle.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South

I have two question about the "research" encounter:
Is it allowed to take 10?

And is the +4 or +5 Bonus to strength correct?

Sovereign Court 5/5

having played through it, i will tell you the research portion is rough, each check taking 6 minutes, 7 book cases with minimum 3 checks per if dc 30 can be hit every time(which is unlikely) with less than an hour to do it in.

4/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

Ran this yesterday at 10-11.

The research part is dicey, to be sure. My table split the tasks up between them and was thus able to complete the job (making the 30+ DC routinely was pretty common for this tier) in just enough time to make it back to

Spoiler:
shut down the dark iris
. It's not clear whether that's the intent (or is, in fact, possible), but I didn't see anything to contraindicate it so I went with it.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

andreww wrote:

OK, I have a few more queries about the set up.

** spoiler omitted **

Excellent questions.

Spoiler:

1. What I meant with "protected against teleportation" is that entering the sanctum using a teleportation spell or effect is impossible while the door is locked. Teleporting within and out of the sanctum should be possible at any time.

2-4. The scenario is silent on the issue of entering or scouting the area in creative ways such as those you mentioned. Many GMs won't read this thread, so I don't want to attempt to change the scenario retroactively through forum posts even though I realize it would have been a good idea to mention how abilities like that work. In other words, the walls are ordinary stone walls, and divination magic works normally.

The following things might be useful to keep in mind, however:

a. It's not immediately obvious where the jewel is, only that it is nearby. As mentioned on page 6, "the change [in the seeker stone's glow] is so gradual that it can only help the PCs locate the ruins (area A); it is not accurate enough to help pinpoint the sage jewel’s exact location." For most groups, it makes more sense to enter the temple first because it's so much easier to reach (stairs + key vs climbing/flying + no key).

b. The girtablilus (if still alive) are likely to mention that their ancestors told them the temple contains a lot of hints (...and loot...) that will help the PCs to fight the ancient evil. Mentioning potentially lost loot will likely remove the problem. When they give the PCs the key, they'll certainly mention that it opens the other door if the PCs attempt to enter the sanctum immediately.

c. The sage is very intelligent and rather paranoid, so if he detects *anything* that seems suspicious, he'll probably use his spells and abilities to thwart any attempts to obtain any useful information. And if a PC uses gloves of reconnaissance while standing behind the bronze door, he can only see the room where the pool is, not the sage's study where the sage is. As mentioned on page 10, the ceiling is 10 ft. high in staircases and all stairs are steep, so line of sight to the second room is blocked.

d. While of course table variation should be avoided, I do think GM fiat should be used if the PCs come up with something really silly. If a PC attempts to dig through the wall using a weapon rather than an actual mining tool, especially without any ranks in Profession (miner), it's very likely they'll cause a collapse rather than create a perfectly even 5x5 ft. hole. As the temple encounter proves, causing massive structural damage to the walls is not a good idea.

I'm very glad to hear that the BBEGs sound interesting. :)

I hope that helps!

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

Alexander Lenz wrote:

I have two question about the "research" encounter:

Is it allowed to take 10?

And is the +4 or +5 Bonus to strength correct?

I think the circumstances definitely count as distracting. Moreover, each roll is potentially an aid another action, and you can't take 10 on a skill check to aid another. So I'd say that's definitely a no. (Not to mention it would kill much of the tension that comes from not knowing if you'll be able to finish a task in time.)

As for the bonus, it was originally +4, but it was changed to +5 in development. It seems they forgot to change it in the handout, unfortunately. Also, the handout is just a quick reference, while the A6 room description is the primary source. So, I recommend using +5 as the bonus.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

Sarvei taeno wrote:
having played through it, i will tell you the research portion is rough, each check taking 6 minutes, 7 book cases with minimum 3 checks per if dc 30 can be hit every time(which is unlikely) with less than an hour to do it in.

According to my playtest data and some calculations, the PCs should be able to finish studying 3 of the 7 shelves, on average. Which means you'll have to rule out the least likely ones or you'll very probably fail.

Of the three groups I've seen playing the scenario, the first group picked the right bookshelf on their second try, the second group picked the right one right away, and I think the third group went through two bookshelves before they found the right one. So I think ruling out the least likely options is reasonably intuitive for the players, though of course three groups is a very small sample of data.

When I designed the encounter, I definitely wanted to make the players sweat. And think.

How did it go for your group? How many shelves did they go through before finding the right one? Most importantly, did the players enjoy it?

5/5 *****

Mikko Kallio wrote:
andreww wrote:

OK, I have a few more queries about the set up.

** spoiler omitted **

Excellent questions.

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for that, it is very helpful.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

Chris Rathunde wrote:

Ran this yesterday at 10-11.

The research part is dicey, to be sure. My table split the tasks up between them and was thus able to complete the job (making the 30+ DC routinely was pretty common for this tier) in just enough time to make it back to ** spoiler omitted **. It's not clear whether that's the intent (or is, in fact, possible), but I didn't see anything to contraindicate it so I went with it.

Spoiler:
Do you mean they placed the three components on the stone tables? That's what the PCs probably want to do as it prevents the collapse. It also earns them 1 Research Point because preserving the history for future generations is important, and of course, it sheds some light on what Sinuhotep was doing with the device. Or did they also do something else? Shutting down or disabling the apparatus has no effect as such, and is not necessary either, but if the PCs want to disable the wiring (to prevent it from destabilizing again?) or something like that, I see no harm in allowing them do that.

By the way, how many shelves did your group search before they found the right one? Also, I'm curious as to which ending your group (and other GMs' groups who are reading this) chose?

5/5 *****

More questions:

Spoiler:
Does the boon mentioned at the start have to be earned by the character being played.

The travel section seems to assume the PC's will bring mounts and mundane equipment which they care about which at this level doesn't seem likely, certainly not at high tier. Food and water tend not to be relevant issues when you can make your own out of nothing.

Many groups may well have a way to create their own shelter from the storm. Rope trick, a dome based wall combined with air bubble, secure shelter etc. How long does it last?

How open do people intend to be on the checks needed to convince Anahita and Ardashir. The scorpion one seems a little obscure, I imagine Ardashir will happily taunt the PC's about their martial skills.

I am very much liking he way this scenario potentially discourages murderhoboism and brute force although one of the penalties looks nigh assured tpk.

Sinuhitep looks like a complicated character, both mechanically and in temperament/personality. I will know together a short guide on how all of his widgets work.

4/5 *

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Mikko Kallio wrote:
Chris Rathunde wrote:

Ran this yesterday at 10-11.

The research part is dicey, to be sure. My table split the tasks up between them and was thus able to complete the job (making the 30+ DC routinely was pretty common for this tier) in just enough time to make it back to ** spoiler omitted **. It's not clear whether that's the intent (or is, in fact, possible), but I didn't see anything to contraindicate it so I went with it.

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
More like: you (barbarian/fighter & gunslinger) do the moving; you (lore warden & oracle) the cataloging; and you (bard & rogue) do the studying. They went through all seven shelves this way.

Then yeah, the three components on the tables just in time to prevent the collapse (literally had them at 59 minutes).

Mikko Kallio wrote:
Also, I'm curious as to which ending your group (and other GMs' groups who are reading this) chose?

I had three Scarab Sages PCs at the table, and they were unanimous about

Spoiler:
aiding Sinohotep's return.
5/5 *****

And one more question

Spoiler:
High tier Sinuhotep has the ability to create a magnificent mansion which he can prevent anyone else from entering. He could, theoretically, stand inside the door lobbing spells at people entirely safe from any form of melee. It's a bit of a dick move, especially as it cannot be dispelled, but I wonder if entering it would count as leaving Area A.

It's an extra dimsensional space rather than its own separate plane so I tend towards him being able to do it.

5/5 *****

Spoiler:
More like: you (barbarian/fighter & gunslinger) do the moving; you (lore warden & oracle) the cataloging; and you (bard & rogue) do the studying. They went through all seven shelves this way

Just to note:

Spoiler:
It is difficult to do what you describe as you cannot start to catalogue until you complete the moving and you cannot start to study until you have catalogued. Unless you roll extremely well you are not completing all seven shelves in 60 minutes.

The Exchange 4/5

I don't think you can jump to Step 3. You need to do 1 and 2 before you can do 3.

5/5 *****

Just a Mort wrote:
I don't think you can jump to Step 3. You need to do 1 and 2 before you can do 3.

Yes, exactly this. It makes finding the right bit challenging.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

Here's an example of play (Subtier 7-8)

Spoiler:

Amiri, Merisiel, Ezren, and Kyra (each 7th-level characters) start searching the library. The stone table with the tablet-shaped indentation had "rebirth" carved on it in many languages, so they correctly guess that they should find a tablet related to that subject.

The players decide that the sun and the moon are probably symbols of rebirth, so they start searching that one. Kyra casts bull's strength on herself to boost her Str modifier by 2 for 7 minutes.

First round rolls: Amiri 19, Merisiel 11, Ezren 6, Kyra 15. Amiri's roll was highest (19), and Merisiel & Kyra successfully aided her (+4) for a total of 23 (=50%). Amiri and Ezren decide to push themselves, increasing Amiri's result to 24, and because Ezren's result now exceeds 10, he also successfully aids Amiri, and 24 + 6 = 30 (100%). Amiri saves against Fort DC 15, but Ezren fails and is now fatigued.

Progress:
7th: 100% > 0% > 0%

The PCs can now attempt to catalogue the sun & moon shelf. Amiri and Merisiel are reasonably good at Perception, and Ezren knows Terran, so they start working on that one, while Kyra picks the 6th shelf because she saw wheat stalk symbols in another room.

Amiri's roll is the highest again (24), and Merisiel adds a +2 on her roll for a total of 26 (75%). Pushing oneself is not possible while cataloguing or studying a shelf, so their progress on that round is 75%. Meanwhile, Kyra rolls a measly 11 on her Str check, but pushing herself increases her result to 16 (25%).

Progress:
6th: 25% > 0% > 0%
7th: 100% > 75% > 0%

Since the PCs have all but finished cataloguing the 6th shelf and because excess % are not carried over to the next task, the PCs decide that only Amiri will attempt to catalogue the 6th shelf, and the other PCs help Kyra move the tablets.

6th: 75% > 0% > 0%
7th: 100% > 100% > 0%

Now that studying the 7th shelf is possible, Ezren, Merisiel, and Amiri focus their efforts on that task. Ezren rolls a nat 20 and has Linguistics +15 (35), so the other two players just shrug and don't even bother rolling. They don't find the Rebirth tablet, however. Meanwhile, Kyra manages to complete the first task on the 6th shelf.

6th: 100% > 0% > 0%
7th: 100% > 100% > 100% (nope)

The PCs have now spent 20 minutes. They realize they won't have time to study all the 7 shelves, so they try to think which ones they should focus on. The weaponry one seems to be the most unlikely option. Mirrors.. also unlikely, though who knows. Cosmetics, wisdom, enchantments, maybe. They decide to focus their efforts on cosmetics and clouds & earth. Four rounds later...

1st: 100% > 100% > 25%
6th: 100% > 100% > 100% (YES!)
7th: 100% > 100% > 100% (nope)

They've now spent 40 minutes. Still plenty of time to get the torc and also fight a bit. Assuming a party similar to my example, the PCs should be able to study 3 or 4 shelves. That's a 50% chance of success assuming they pick randomly. But if they think about it a little, it's much easier.

Sovereign Court 5/5

unfortunately well rounded parties are rare, i know my run thru had no strength based characters, with highest strength being 20 after buffed. we did 3 shelves, our gm still trying to piece the situation together missed the parts bout the clues, and as only 1 player at our table is a cognitive thinker the rest tending to react and and favor combat left the 1 person to try and figure out the library. We did manage to do it on the 50 min mark, having only 2 characters that could even get above 20 on average, wizard with linguistics of +24, monk with perception of 19, rest of the party was looking an 8 or less or skill/str mod. i enjoyed the scenario but flow wise the scenario seemed like 7-01 where it moved easily for a bit than just hit a brick wall.

as for our option lets just say the alpha personality at the table was the scarab sage wizard with full devotion to scarab sages above all. so we voted to bring the amethyst sage home

Silver Crusade

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Just bought this to prep for a gameday coming up in a little over a month (I like to have lots of time to prep 7-11s), and I want to give the author kudos for the Blade Runner reference in one of Sinuhotep's answers. That garnered a big smile from me :D

Also, I was pleasantly surprised to find he's a lore discipline psychic, same as mine, so I'm familiar with his mechanics. As I'm the only local player I know of that HAS a psychic, I'm glad I'm the one running it first, then!

That said, I've never had experience with mage's magnificent mansion. Would it be useful at all in-combat, perhaps to escape and buy time or to draw the PCs into a trap?

5/5 *****

I ran this for the first time last night. I am running it twice more in the next two weeks when I will write a review. Yesterday was full on high tier with:

Witch 7
Zen Archer 10
Kineticist 10
Defensive Monk 11
Bard 11

They did pretty well with the storm getting the second level of success. Those DC's are pretty tough and I can see less specialised parties really struggling with them. In the event I completely forget about the effect.

They negotiated with the scorpionfolk getting them onside then the witch hit one of them with a charm hex which he easily saved against which nearly provoked combat. I allowed the bards 50+ diplomacy to save the day though.

Entering the complex they easily made the checks for the urals but one took the downside. They missed the next clue due to not actually checking then started the research portion. None of them had much strength but the kineticist had at will telekinesis for 1000lbs which I treated as a heavy load (Str26) which helped a lot. They picked the right option on the second round and the bard had Sense Motive as a versatile performance which made the research section trivial. They completed the research after 30 minutes with two locations completely checked. Again I suspect less specialised parties will struggle.

They collected the other item then things went to go badly wrong. The fight inside the temple was utterly brutal The main bad guy has a high damage output and the extra mobs were no slouches either. I was also rolling well. At the end of round two both monks were bleeding out, the bard was at single digit hp and the other two were flying to avoid some of the enemies. They fled to regroup and I didn't have them pursued.

After healing back up and going in the upper entrance they re-engaged the enemy. They weren't helped by the witch being largely helpless in the fight but they also tried to focus on the small things at the expense of taking some huge hits. One of the monks again came within a hairs breadth of being killed but they managed to survive.

The stabilised the object, located the key and moved to the next area. They made a deal with the local resident and faced the alternate enemy. Unfortunately her spell load out isn't all that great. The elemental whirlwind is helpful as it obscures all vision giving Surma a bit of time but she is too dependant on her racial ability to survive and the group learned how to negate it before she even arrived. She got a few spells off and I nearly managed to drop a few people from hundreds of feet in the air but ultimately she just couldn't stand up to the group.

I will be running it twice more, next week is probably at low tier and a second high tier group the following week. The bard skill checks and attack buffs probably made a huge difference to this particular group.

5/5 *****

Hrothdane wrote:
That said, I've never had experience with mage's magnificent mansion. Would it be useful at all in-combat, perhaps to escape and buy time or to draw the PCs into a trap?

Sure, he can open it as a standard action and walk into it. Only creatures he allows in can enter and he can effectively render himself immune to melee attacks doing this.

It is a bit of a dick move.

Silver Crusade

andreww wrote:
Hrothdane wrote:
That said, I've never had experience with mage's magnificent mansion. Would it be useful at all in-combat, perhaps to escape and buy time or to draw the PCs into a trap?

Sure, he can open it as a standard action and walk into it. Only creatures he allows in can enter and he can effectively render himself immune to melee attacks doing this.

It is a bit of a dick move.

Ah, cool. That's what I figured.

I actually think it would be kinda cool not as an "I win" button, but as a flavor thing. He's burly enough as-is. The powerful, arrogant lich draws the party back into a battlefield of his choosing, his personal realm. He goes in and leaves permission for the others to follow.

As for the agash, I noticed she looked a bit underwhelming compared to Sinuhotep. Her DCs are rather bad.

Scarab Sages 5/5

What are ghouls cursed claws???

5/5 *****

Utii wrote:
What are ghouls cursed claws???

I think it makes them count as magic.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Utii wrote:
What are ghouls cursed claws???

It's in the creature appendix. They count as cold iron and magic for the purposes of overcoming DR.

Scarab Sages 5/5

I dont get that this ask Scarab sages wich NPC they chose, Badru or Saruna as they didn't have the choice only Dark Archive had.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

@Utii: Are you referring to the following parts of the adventure?

Spoiler:

Page 5 wrote:
Depending on whether more PCs have the Recruiter of Badru or the Recruiter of Saruna boons earned in Pathfinder Society Scenario #6–04: Beacon Below, either Badru or Saruna enters and greets the Pathfinders. If it is a tie (or if none of the PCs have these boons), the PCs get to vote whether they want to discuss the sage with someone devoted to him (Badru) or someone who loathes him (Saruna).

and

Page 23 wrote:
If the PCs chose Badru to answer their questions in the briefing, check box A on the reporting sheet.

If there are no Dark Archives PCs who have played Beacon Below, the PCs get to choose freely, regardless of whether they're of the Dark Archives, Scarab Sages, or any other faction. Because Ancients' Anguish is more closely related to the Scarab Sages than Dark Archives (and not every player has several high-level characters anyway), it's entirely possible that no one has either of the boons and they get to vote.

The reason I included the reporting checkbox is that if the PCs choose Saruna and they recruit Sinuhotep, Saruna gets upset, and if they choose Badru and destroy Sinuhotep, Badru gets upset. If Badru or Saruna appear in any future scenarios, the data collected from this scenario's reports may affect their roles, i.e. whether they're foes or allies.

@andreww: I noticed I haven't answered some of your questions upthread. I'll answer them sometime soon!

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Ran this on Saturday and I hope to give some notes on areas where it worked well, and areas where it stumbled a bit.

That said, since we have the author here, this is my favorite scenario in a long, long time.

4/5

This scenario was great! We had some pretty epic moments in it, and the end caused much discord in the party.

#7-11 Ancient's Anguish:

I ran it at 7-8.

They only failed one check in the chase part (the first one). We were running beside another table (subtier 10-11) and they didn't fail a single check. Both tables were 5 players. I made handouts with descriptions and what check they needed to use for the chase, but didn't put any DCs on there (it went very smoothly because of that).

They made the first check with the scorpionfolk but they miserbly failed to impress the other so ended up fighting, and stabilized both guardians at the end of the fight.

For the research section, there was much argument about what bookshelves should be read. They wasted about 4 minutes beforehand preparing extracts etc. so that people could read the languages. In the end, at minute 58 they ended up with 5 bookshelves completed (bookshelves 3-7), and on that last turn they completed both 6 & 7. (I made a handout for them to track progress, so it was much easier for them to visually see how far they had come) So with 2 minutes left, they went back to the dark iris, but of course the encounter triggers on their way back. It was epic as I was counting down the rounds until it was going to collapse...so they had 13 rounds left when they finally were able to stop the iris. Of course, they didn't know they had more time than that, which made it even more epic.

Then it was lich time. Before they opened the door, the cleric buffed like crazy. I didn't say anything, but he was a little disappointed after he found out they were talking afterwards (I think this will be a common occurrence at that part, haha, and the other table next to us had the same thing come up). They had someone in the party who hated undead, and the rest of the party were Scarab Sages. There was a bunch of discord whether to trust the lich or not. After much arguing, a vote was taken and he was trusted. Combat with the div was not too bad (I actually think the lich is generally harder).

It was a pretty awesome time. Definitely one of the better scenarios I have GMed.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

andreww wrote:

More questions:

** spoiler omitted **

Answers:

Spoiler:

The PC being played has to have the boon because the scenario doesn't explicitly mention otherwise (cf. Golden Guardian from season 6 which does mention it). However, if no PCs have the boon, they can easily just vote for the NPC they sided with in Beacon Below. (And the effect on the scenario isn't huge anyway.)

When I've GM'd the scenario, I didn't try to present the camels, etc. as something the PCs *have to* use, but rather, as something that *allows* them to ignore the most mundane threats of desert travel. Basically, I said that thanks to Roderus' preparations, you don't have to worry about buying supplies and using spell slots or *any* other resources you'd normally need for the travel. The players were happy to hear that and didn't complain about their mode of transportation. There's usually a PC who travels in wild shape or uses air walk. That's fine, no reason to force them ride a camel. If a PC has an airship or something like that, I'd let them use it but mention that they'll have to continue on foot beyond a certain point because the use of the seeker stone requires that they're closer to the ground.

The sandstorm approaches really fast, so secure shelter isn't going to help (10 minutes casting time). Some types of shelters are probably sturdy enough to protect the PCs (and any mounts). Anyway, if the PCs use a temporary shelter while they're still out in the open, Surma is probably going to make the wall of sand go away for a while, only to rise again when the PCs think they're safe. However, if the PCs really have taken extraordinary measures to protect themselves against sandstorms, I think they should be allowed to skip the encounter altogether, or at least avoid some of the checks in the chase (cf. the sidebar about teleportation). For example, if they have no mounts & beasts of burden at all, they can skip the second check.

As for the checks to influence Anahita and Ardashir, if the PCs succeed at the Knowledge (nature) check, I'd reveal some or all of the different options to convince them. Also, as you suggested, they can reveal some or all of the options through dialogue if the PCs don't know what to do.

I hope that helps!

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

andreww wrote:

And one more question

** spoiler omitted **

He's intended to be able to use his memory palace. Since he has an infinite amount of time and not a whole lot of different things he can do in Area A, he probably spends a lot of time studying the memories stored in his amethyst and (in the higher subtier) organizing his mental library. My players actually asked him how he's managed to stay sane all this time, and I used something to that effect as my answer.

Anyway, personally, I wouldn't use the ability in combat because it's not mentioned in his tactics, and he's quite deadly as-is. And yes, it's a bit of a dick move as well.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

MisterSlanky wrote:

Ran this on Saturday and I hope to give some notes on areas where it worked well, and areas where it stumbled a bit.

That said, since we have the author here, this is my favorite scenario in a long, long time.

Andrew Roberts wrote:

This scenario was great! We had some pretty epic moments in it, and the end caused much discord in the party.

** spoiler omitted **...

And before I forget, many thanks to both of you for these comments! It was a tough adventure to write both schedule-wise and because it's Tier 7-11. So it's very reassuring to hear I didn't screw up very badly. :)

Thanks for the detailed description of how the library encounter and other parts of the adventure played out, Andrew!

Thanks for the 5 stars, MisterSlanky, it's very much appreciated! I look forward to reading your commentary on what worked well where it stumbled a bit. That'll help me write better scenarios in the future.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

In general I think this scenario is superb. Challenging combats, an interesting social encounter, research that work, resource drains that don’t feel like resource drains (I’m looking at you the mess that was The Price of Friendship). Overall if you’re a GM and thinking of running this – do so. If you’re a player and looking to learn more – just know you should stop reading, experience this awesome scenario on your own, and stop reading.

From the standpoint of moving forward one of the major faction missions, this scenario does a great job. The interactions make sense, and most importantly by far, player choices feel like they make a difference.

I only saw two major stumbles.

Stumble #1:
The first that came to mind was the scaling on the Div fight in tier 10-11 (I only ran at 10-11). It’s very easy for the group to move where they want to prior to triggering her calling. The result is quite possibly leave the melee characters right where they need to be when dealing with a witch. When this happens (as it did at my table), losing Waves of Fatigue really limits options. Additively, losing the second big summon via the same loss means the lack of a melee combatant to take hits for her (and tie up melee types) makes the fight extremely easy. I wish I were joking when I say it took 1.2 rounds for the team to kill her. Frankly, the four player adjustment made the fight go from tough but winnable to a complete cakewalk. At the bare minimum it should have been different summons vs. the summons lost.

Stumble #2:
The other was the ease of the “chase”. The mechanic was okay, but a reasonable team (I only had 5 players, but they were “reasonable” can blow away most of these DCs, especially with assists that don’t require the PC to be able to make the check) can blow through this entire encounter with ease. My table failed nothing, and by a significant margin. I think some of the newer mechanics which involve group checks may have been more fitting (e.g. trying to make a majority of successes with everybody rolling on an easier check DC). I appreciate the fact it makes some characters “shine” over group shining, but it just felt again like a speedbump rather than the dangerous encounter it was meant to be. Loved loved loved it thematically, but it didn’t do much to create a sense of danger, at least at my table.

If I can think of more, or hear more from my table, I’ll be certain to share. Know though that every single player walked away saying it was a fantastic scenario though. That five stars was well earned.

Dark Archive 5/5 5/5

MisterSlanky wrote:

In general I think this scenario is superb. Challenging combats, an interesting social encounter, research that work, resource drains that don’t feel like resource drains (I’m looking at you the mess that was The Price of Friendship). Overall if you’re a GM and thinking of running this – do so. If you’re a player and looking to learn more – just know you should stop reading, experience this awesome scenario on your own, and stop reading.

From the standpoint of moving forward one of the major faction missions, this scenario does a great job. The interactions make sense, and most importantly by far, player choices feel like they make a difference.

I only saw two major stumbles.

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

player at the Slanky one's table here

Regarding the stumbles:
I thought we failed one of the checks. I distinctly remember my gnome yelling at his camel to run faster in the right direction.

Admittedly, there was a musket crit followed by a wooden gatling gun.

This was one of my favorites as well. I look forward to reading and running it in the future. Any scenario where my gnome cleric is "the beef" moving large heavy objects around is aces in this guy's book.

5/5 *****

Just ran the second group through this. APL8.8 rounding to 9 is pretty rough with 5 players. The encounter in the temple nearly tore them apart and forced this group to run as well. We lost an animal companion and one of the sorcerers stayed within a 5' step of one of the multi attacking monsters with predictable results.

They returned to Katapesh, got the sorcerer ressed (they did manage to switch off the thing) then returned and dealed with the reduced number of enemies. I have to say given some of the effects in the encounter the treasure for it feels a little like mocking them...:)

Again they chose to nehotatiate and faced Surma. She got to use her gaze attack this time and it created real problems. I killed another PC with Phantasmal Killer after Mind Fog. They eventually chipped her down with channel, magic missiles and a few other low level spells. Their main melee, a tetori grappler, just never got to reach her at all.

The 4 player adjustment at high tier does leave Surma with some pretty limited options.

In terms of the high tier fight, nothing within the scenario suggests that the players should know where she is going to arrive. As for the sandstorm, both times the groups have missed two of the checks.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

We had a Tetori too, but no time to get him flight so Surma took us quite a while. That resulted in cool cinematic combat above the ruins, featuring wall-running monks, flying samurais and elves, and two girtablilu nodding in silent approval.

Great scenario!

Grand Lodge 5/5

I have run this scenario twice so far. The first time was for a group of five PCs, solidly in high subtier. The second group consisted of seven players ranging from two 7th-level pregens to an 11th-level PC on their last scenario before level 12, that ended up playing up with the 4 PC adjustment.

INTRO
In both groups, none of the PCs had been through Beacon Below, and only one or two of the players had been (with different characters). Thus both groups ended up voting, and both ended speaking to Saruna.

For the journey, I did require endure elements or similar on PCs wearing medium or heavy armor (or else not wearing it in the high desert, or coming up with another reasonable solution). At subtier 10-11, this should not pose much of a problem for them, other than possibly prepping some spells or buying a few cheap scrolls.

SANDSTORM
Both groups failed two checks, and ended up with the lesser version of the curse. I determined from these playthroughs that it is important to mention two or three times some of the aftereffects of the curse (feeling of insects, burning on skin, etc.), both for atmosphere and so that when the curse strikes in the temple, it doesn't come out of left field.

GIRTABLILUS
Both groups successfully negotiated with the scorpionfolk. The first group had little trouble; the second failed two of the three checks with one of them, but succeeded at the javelin toss and thus avoided a fight. Just as well; this scenario like most 7-11s tends to run long, and a long battle with these folk would have prevented a final battle from occurring.

TEMPLE
Both groups initially scouted the 50-ft-high openings; one finally entered through the front door, while the second group entered the temple from above. Both missed the secret door (one failed on a search check; the other never searched that part of the temple).

RESEARCH PUZZLE
Thanks to the clue on the table by the dark iris, both groups started with the correct bookshelf, and managed to complete studying it around the half-hour mark. I had prepped a special handout to help track research, which sped things up considerably.

TEMPLE ASSAULT
The battle once the tablet and torc are retrieved is definitely the hardest fight of the scenario, primarily due to the hasted undead. The statue is excellent at drawing attention, leaving the path clearer for the undead to move up with their super-fast speed and clump onto spellcasters. In both fights I probably could have taken out one or two PCs fairly easily if I had most or all of the undead focus on one target at a time. The 4 PC adjustment has a big effect, both reducing numbers and the likelihood of a rend. Both fights took a fair amount of game-time to chew through the enemies' hit points.

OTHER TEMPLE EXPLORATION
One group found all the research lore, while the other group missed only the arrowheads. I managed to get a curse to stick on one or two PCs. Be sure to ask what everyone is doing, then have everyone make their knowledge skill checks, before calling for Will saves for the curse.

SINUHOTEP
Both groups negotiated and ended up allying with Sinuhotep and fighting Surma. The way the scenario is written, it is extremely unlikely to me that anyone will fight the lich, since the stated victory condition at the outset (retrieve the amethyst jewel) pretty much requires allying with Sinuhotep to succeed, and there is no indication in the intro that allowing the jewel to be destroyed and returning with its shards would be acceptable. Maybe having Surma (if she is present) suggest that to PCs once Tahonikepsu leaves might give PCs the idea that fighting him is acceptable.

That having been said, both groups did discuss/argue over whether to side with Sinuhotep. One group had a cleric of Pharasma who was very upset over letting the lich live, but the Scarab Sage faction PCs in particular ruled the day.

SURMA
In both cases, the final battle was short and easy. Witches do no make the best final bosses, to my mind, since most of their magic tends to be single-target, short-range save or die effects, and PCs at this level tend to have very high save bonuses.

With the first group, Surma was hit with a quickened ill omen + feeblemind combo that had me call the fight after she failed one of the saves (we were also running very low on time). Surma lasted a round or two longer with the second group, mainly because they took position on the ground instead of at the tops of the pillars, so it took a couple rounds for them to reach her. However, she dropped pretty quickly and did little to nothing against the PCs.

AIDS
My prep for this scenario is as follows:
- Annotated stat blocks for both low and high subtiers. In particular, it is important to review the psychic class in the unlikely case that PCs fight Sinuhotep.

- A chase tracker table that integrated each event's name, a checkbox for success, a description, and the two requisite checks to be made for each, along with a summary of the results. This allowed me to have all the chase-related information on a single page, where I could easily track the results.

- A time-tracking table for the temple collapse, listing all key times, with minute-by-minute checkboxes I can cross off as time is expended. I also calculated the length of time it would take to do a cursory ground-level search of each temple room, assuming a single Perception check per 5 feet. Thus for example, a cursory search of the Assembly Hall would take about 8 minutes (excluding searching the urns).

- Check boxes for each of the five research points to be gained, with a brief description of each and the checks and DCs needed to succeed on each.

- A two-page set of tables for the bookshelf research task. This includes check boxes for every 25% increment of completion, the skill checks needed for each phase and for each shelf, and a description. When running this, I would have players place their minis next to the shelf or shelves they were working on, then go down the sheet making checks group-by-group for each round of testing.

- Player handouts for each of the three possible curses that they might suffer (six to a page, which I then cut out for six handouts per curse). When a PC is afflicted with a curse, I can then pass these out to keep by their character as a reminder of its effects.

CONCLUSION
An entertaining and engaging scenario, especially for Scarab Sages faction members. I definitely recommend that players play Beacon Below before this one (for story continuity, if nothing else), and also the Destiny of the Sands trilogy if they can.

As always, game time is a significant consideration when running this scenario. Keep an eye on the clock and be ready to push players if they start to get mired down in roleplay or discussion. It is easy for players to lose a lot of time, for example, in the logistics of the library research task, especially if you are unprepared.

5/5 *****

I ran my third run of this scenario last night and things worked out a bit differently to the first two. Again it was high tier but full on high this time. I had a zen archer, melee inquisitor, wizard, cleric and monk.

Spoiler:
Due to some lucky rolls they aced the storm escaping with no unpleasant side effects. They entered the complex and encountered the local and there things went downhill somewhat. They convinced Anahita they knew what they were doing but Ardashir just kept laughing at them and eventually a fight started.

This was nearly very bad. The enemies have a lot of health and respectable defences. The Monk moved up and grappled Ardashir and was then nearly outright killed by Anahita from full HP (around 130). The wizard got grappled by a chum scorpion while the zen archer was doing what they do but struggling to hit.

The cleric evacuated the Monk leaving the inquisitor in melee with both of them. That ended badly and he was unconscious and near death. Eventually the archer brought down Ardashir and I allowed the wizard an emergency extra diplo check to get Anahita to back down if they healed her brother. I used the base DC +5 which he hit on the nose.

They entered the complex, the even started after a bit and they started the research portion. They completed that in 30 minutes without too much trouble and triggered the second encounter. This one was much less dangerous than the prior two as the archer was able to unload.

This group again negotiated with Sinuhotep and fought Surma. She didn't give them too much trouble but the gaze attack was tricky. I was surprised we managed to finish in under 5 hours, especially as they had all three fights.

Overall some general impressions on running it:

1. The chase works OK but you want some visual representation for it. I created a roll 20 page using the page from the pdf and had people position themselves based on which skill they were using. Adding some description of what is happening is important too in order to give context. My group were a bit freaked out when it started following them.

2. I love the map for the main location, mostly because it is on a single page which makes running this face to face much easier on the prep side.

3. The research phase can drag, I highly recommend having clear handouts explaining what is involved in each stage. Again I created a separate roll 20 page using that room section from the map and numbering the shelves so the players could indicate where they were.

4. I love the moral choice given to scarab sage people about what their options are but I think you need to be fairly explicit with the PC's about what is involved, at least if hey have identified what Sinuhotep is.

5. I was very sad not to have had a chance to use Sinuhotep as he looks like a vey interesting boss fight. I think many groups will choose to work with him given how he presents himself. I actually found myself starting to push some of what he did to survive just to see how the PC's would react, in particular his complete lack of care about the fate of his apprentices.

6. Surma's offence is a little lacking as an end boss. I would have liked to see her have, say, split hex as a feat and maybe accursed. They are very common witch feats and giving her something like Weapon Focus (Claw) in particular seems like a waste. Likewise if she has intensified spell just using it on burning hands looks a bit pointless.

7. My one area of real issue is what happens when if you destroy the cylinder. While I understand a desire to discourage murderhoboism the result is extremely likely to be a tpk with little chance of survival unless you manage to all flee immediately.

Overall I am very happy with this scenario, it does a lot of what I expect a 7-11 to do.

Sczarni 3/5

Intro
I ran this for a group of 4 at high tier. We had a human negative channeling cleric, a human melee-familiar focused shaman, a dhampir brown-fur transmuter arcanist and a half-elf melee tome eater occultist. All of them had played the Destiny of the Sands trilogy as well as the Beacon Below with their respective characters, so expectations were high (The shaman being the only one belonging to the Scarab sages).

Sandstorm
We started off trying to get our head around the sandstorm. They wanted to teleport out, but after making clear that that was not an option due to the constraints of the spell, they reluctantly decided to go with the flow and enter the chase scene. All in all, an enjoyeable cinematic experience that set the tone for the things to come. They didn't fail a single check, albeit due to the 4-player adjustment.

Gritablbl- Scorpion folk
This was a fun roleplay encounter, but the DCs were steamrolled and the party moved on, key in the pocket.

Temple
As soon as they were aware of the timer set in motion they frantically started to move the whole library outside using ant haul and magic. It took me a while to make clear to them that disabling the Iris would probably be a better idea, and once they saw the handout all the pieces fell into place. They found the tablet on the second try, and all hell broke loose. They got in a tight spot, but managed to pull through (I'm looking at you emergency force sphere). They disabled the iris, found the second key and headed to the other entrance.

The lich
They buffed heavily before opening the door. The roleplay that followed took well over an hour, the decision ultimately being placed in the shaman's hands, as he was the only one of the Scarab Sages. They decided to attack, and a very interesting combat followed. The lich is a powerhouse, teleporting around and throwing out quickened spells. Them having freedom of movement up saved the day, as they provoked multiple AoO's from the lich when the beatsticks were blinded by his power word: blind and they tried to move up to them to remove it, effectively negating the permanent paralysis. The arcanist was the only one feared and was effectively removes from combat. I got to blow up the arcanist's familiar with a readied Mind thrust VI as it was the only party member that fell to the confusion effect and the lich readied an action "on the first hostile action". Goat intestines everywhere, good fun was had. The shaman's familiar's full attacks ultimately proved fatal for the (now former) amethyst sage. They didn't find the real phylactery, and went home.

GM Perspective:
I took a day off to prep this, reading the scenario back a forth three times, and having all the monster stats, maps and skill checks at hand. Still it felt like there was so much information that I was not able to squeeze it all in the 5 hours we played. I forgot the curses, the shadows and the wall of sound in the lich encounter, as well as the part where they could identify the fake phylactery with a knowledge check. This led to some disappointment at the end because they felt they were cheated out of a victory (returning home with the fake gem, the lich getting away). It retconned it when I reread the part on the fake jewel and gave them a knowledge check to identify it as fake. This is a scenario that under all circumstances should NOT be played cold, and I'm having serious doubts as to wether it fits a 5-hour timeslot. That said, we had a good time with this and I would probably run it again if I had the chance, having run it once. I have one complaint: the order in which events are described in the scenario makes 0 sense to me. I was going back and forth many times during play, also during combats. This was very annoying and I feel like there was room for improvement. That said, the content itself was wickedly awesome, and I managed to keep my players on their toes with some of the stuff that was going on.

Rating: 4/5

5/5 *** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

I was the Tome Eater at Carla's game. Small clarification: I have played the Destiny of the Sands trilogy, but not with this character.

This scenario was awesome, a great continuation of the Sages storyline. From a player perspective, the skill DCs seemed a little high to me, but maybe I'm not used to high-level play yet. We barely passed DC 33 several times, which only one party member could pull off not even 50% of the time. Hell, even at my best skill, I have a 15% chance at beating that, although my mental stats aren't that high (INT 16 at the moment). It takes a fairly specialized team to reliably make those checks. Again, maybe it's just a product of high-end play, but I'm not a big fan of this. Or maybe I'm just too used to earlier low-level scenarios where the big challenge was making a DC 20 Perception check. >_>

5/5 *****

Quentin Coldwater wrote:

I was the Tome Eater at Carla's game. Small clarification: I have played the Destiny of the Sands trilogy, but not with this character.

This scenario was awesome, a great continuation of the Sages storyline. From a player perspective, the skill DCs seemed a little high to me, but maybe I'm not used to high-level play yet. We barely passed DC 33 several times, which only one party member could pull off not even 50% of the time. Hell, even at my best skill, I have a 15% chance at beating that, although my mental stats aren't that high (INT 16 at the moment). It takes a fairly specialized team to reliably make those checks. Again, maybe it's just a product of high-end play, but I'm not a big fan of this. Or maybe I'm just too used to earlier low-level scenarios where the big challenge was making a DC 20 Perception check. >_>

I have run it 3 or 4 times now and so far no group has failed more than 3 of the sandstorm skill checks. The ability to take the highest and treat others as aiding helps significantly. The major downsides only really apply if you fail lots of checks. At high level you can expect to not make every check, especially if you lack a specialist in a particular area.

I ran a recent 5-9 which has DC's which can conceivably reach 40 depending on the circumstances.

Grand Lodge 1/5 Contributor

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for the comments, Carla, andreww, Damien_DM, Muser, and everyone else!

Quentin Coldwater wrote:

I was the Tome Eater at Carla's game. Small clarification: I have played the Destiny of the Sands trilogy, but not with this character.

This scenario was awesome, a great continuation of the Sages storyline. From a player perspective, the skill DCs seemed a little high to me, but maybe I'm not used to high-level play yet. We barely passed DC 33 several times, which only one party member could pull off not even 50% of the time. Hell, even at my best skill, I have a 15% chance at beating that, although my mental stats aren't that high (INT 16 at the moment). It takes a fairly specialized team to reliably make those checks. Again, maybe it's just a product of high-end play, but I'm not a big fan of this. Or maybe I'm just too used to earlier low-level scenarios where the big challenge was making a DC 20 Perception check. >_>

I'm glad you liked the scenario. :)

The main reason why the DCs are so high in both of the two skill challenges (chase, library) is that aid another happens automatically and it's added to the highest result. Assuming everyone is trained in a skill (or you can use it untrained), the average unmodified roll is 17.62 (or 16.48 if there are only 4 PCs).

So, if you get one or two +2 bonuses from aid another, the highest-rolling PC probably already has ~20 before adding his or her own modifiers. So, with the exception of some of the more esoteric skills (Linguistics, Appraise, Profession [anything], etc.), something like DC 25 is usually too easy for most groups.

In the girtablilu encounter, you basically get three tries, and I think it makes sense for the DCs to be quite high because the scorpionfolk are supposed to be very devoted and serious about guarding the place.

High-end play is the other reason, I guess. One of the biggest complaints about my first scenario, the Golden Guardian, was that it was too easy, so I tried to make this one more challenging. Also because it's a higher-level scenario, and most players are quite experienced. Having GM'd a few tables of Ancients' Anguish and read about GMs' and players' experiences in this thread and elsewhere, I think for the most part, the level of difficulty in both combat and skill-based encounters is suitable for the average group, though I'm a bit bummed that Surma ended up being a much easier encounter than the one that happens in the temple.

I have to admit, writing high-level scenarios is tough because it gets increasingly difficult to predict what a group of PCs can or can't do. Every new feat, class, or archetype is potentially something I have to be aware of while writing a scenario, and at higher levels, the number of possible combinations and the gap between optimized and unoptimized characters gets bigger.

I'll try my best, though, and all the feedback I've gotten helps me write better scenarios in the future. :-)

5/5 *** Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht

Forgot about the aid anothers. Sounds like you considered this problem well enough. In that case, I don't have any more complaints. Keep on writing awesome stuff!

5/5 *****

It is a great adventure, I was really pleased with it. I don't think Surma is a push over but she does lack a little offence, especially with the 4 player adjustment. Its tricky when you have a bad guy who is quite dependant on single target removal like Slumber. It works great for PC's as they tend to have a 2-4:1 advantage over the opposition but on bad guys it's too easy to remove with a standard action.

I did manage to annoy both groups with her quite a bit as she flew around outside avoiding melee. The last group didn't learn about her gaze effect until much too late and it caused them lots of issues.

You do run into issues at high level where the gap between PC's can be pretty huge but there isn't much that can be done about that.

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