Owner - D20 Hobbies
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plausible meaning of "restricted to" then?
they are in conflict
Restricted to means exactly what it sounds like. A round you can not take a Full Round action not by some choice of yours but by some game mechanic. The only two simple ones are surprise and staggered.
There is no conflict.
There is no conflict.
I agree. Crimeo is fabricating a rules conflict where none exists.
According to you. There are plenty of people, myself included, that diaagree with you. We also have, in our opinions, a more reasonable interpretation of the rules than you do. And I think your interpretation is ridiculous and non-functional (you already admitted yourself that it's non-functional).
But I've taken more of my fair share of dealing with Crimeo today. Some people just can't be reasoned with.
Logic is not a voting democracy.
Correct. But according to you it's a monarchy with you at the top.
Raw is you cannot ready a charge.
As a GM I would allow it as prepared the previous round, but for everyone. Have goblins charge at the first characters who step through the door.
I do not plan to play in any pathfinder official events in the near future.
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Keep in mind that if the fighter is being attacked by wisps/wraiths/phase spiders he can 5ft step towards the enemy when his readied action triggers. Unless the creature has 15ft reach it will not avoid the readied attack.
That wouldn't be a problem; but if these monsters use natural invisibility or incorporeality as written, they can easily pick apart one PC at a time, and the fighters can't reach them unless the whole party huddles together. For example, back when the PCs were 7th level, a single will'o'wisp almost caused a TPK by always attacking PCs who were furthest away from the melee types. It was a really frustrating fight for me as well, and dragged on and on until I decided to stop using invisibility for the wisp (on top of that, there was a fear effect inside the room, too, so the wisp would regenerate).
Another example is a battle with several advanced phantom armors, plus a cairn wight and wraiths. The thing is, the wraiths came out of the floor and the walls, attacked, and then withdrew for a round, only to emerge at another location to drain another PC, typically targeting spellcasters. This was actually quite easy, as the "corporeal" enemies kept the paladin, the rogue and the fighter busy. In the end the bard, wizard and oracle readied each round to get them with channeling and spells.
I know, incorporeal and invisible creatures are supposed to use tactics like this, but it can feel unfair to melee types not to be able to move + attack *once*, unless they become staggered. (I can actually imagine the paladin asking the fighter to use Staggering Critical on him, i.e. "Crit me, dwarf! Crit me and I can charge!" ;P)
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Logic is not a voting democracy.
It isn't?
Someone might think it logical to put a penny every 6 inches on the street. I mean, it's very logical that if you need a penny you could pick it up. The fact that not many people could share that logic isn't relevant to you?
If vast majority of people on the planet will disagree with that logic. I guess they are all wrong in your mind?
Logic is not a voting democracy.It isn't?
Someone might think it logical to put a penny every 6 inches on the street. I mean, it's very logical that if you need a penny you could pick it up. The fact that not many people could share that logic isn't relevant to you?
If vast majority of people on the planet will disagree with that logic. I guess they are all wrong in your mind?
Common sense dictates that pennies left on the ground will be taken. If I don't grab the pennies, someone else will.
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@Asgetrion: If the Wisp wants to end each turn invisible, it can only attack someone within 5' of its starting square, and it is stuck in the square it 5'ed into to attack from.
5' step
Standard: single attack
Move: go invisible
Sort of limited, even if it takes the 5' after going invisible.
Especially since it isn't incorporeal, so it can be targeted by a readied tanglefoot bag...
On the wraiths, as one example, there are spells and such that can actually seriously whack their capabilities, between Death Ward and Ghostbane Dirge....
Of course, both of those are assuming that there is someone in the party who believes that Knowledge is Power....
Nobody invented them.
False. People invented the rules. They are a manmade concept and as such are subject to interpretation.
Try again.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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"Restricted to X" means "only allowed to include X and nothing else." Thus, if any other type of action is allowed in a given type of round, that round is not restricted to standard actions.
First, ask any developer, the rules are written more in a conversational way and less like a rigid strict law book. Why? Because the customers don't want to buy law books, but will buy game rule books.
You are reading the Restricted to Standard asctions to mean "no other actions" when it only means "You can't take Full Attack Actions".
When you ready an action, you could have taken a Full Round Actions. So you can't charge on your Ready. The FAQ says so. Apparently the problem is the FAQ goes on to explain why and people are misreading the why to say you can.
Now, when you are staggered you are restricted to a Standard action. Standard actions can be used as a Move action. You can't take Full Round actions.
When you are in a surprise round you are restricted to a Standard action. You can't take Full Round actions.
I get that you want the book to be a law book. But it isn't. It isn't written to be interpreted that way. Frankly, I'm sure they look at some of our interpretations as silly. I'm sure they say "I don't get how they could have interpreted it that way" or "they can't be serious right?"
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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"Restricted to X" means "only allowed to include X and nothing else."
Let me expand on this more, as you probably haven't read the rules on actions lately.
In a normal round, you can perform a standard action and a move action, or you can perform a full-round action.
You can always take a move action in place of a standard action.
In some situations (such as in a surprise round), you may be limited to taking only a single move action or standard action.
Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round
You can also perform one swift action and one or more free actions.
Restricted Activity: In some situations, you may be unable to take a full round's worth of actions. In such cases, you are restricted to taking only a single standard action or a single move action (plus free and swift actions as normal). You can't take a full-round action (though you can start or complete a full-round action by using a standard action; see below).
Ok, a normal round ONLY allows Standard+Move or Full Round. The fact you can always take free actions when taking other actions allows you to take free actions during either of those modes. The ability to take a move instead of a standard is why you can Move+Move for example.
It gives a long answer to Restricted activity. In the rules the word restricted is only used in this context in these parts:
Restricted Activity
Restricted Withdraw
Charge: ... restricted to
Only 3 times.
Just like Polymorph rules, a spell won't tell you exactly how everything works in the spell. They will leave out details or gloss over things in the spell that will be answered in the Polymorph sections.
Charge and Withdraw mention restricted. But the actual rules for how you are restricted are here:
Restricted Activity: In some situations, you may be unable to take a full round’s worth of actions. In such cases, you are restricted to taking only a single standard action or a single move action (plus free and swift actions as normal). You can’t take a full-round action (though you can start or complete a full-round action by using a standard action; see below).
So restricted in both Charge and Withdraw means "unable to take a full round's worth of actions." In other words just two times in the rules. Surprise and Withdraw.
One day I want to play in one of Crimeo's games. I imagine this is generally how the world is.
It used to be more obvious in previous editions that the so called "rules" are really just guidelines. It was usually even part of the book title like the: Dungeon Masters Guide, rather than Dungeon Masters Rulebook. Some Pathfinder books still follow that tradition like the: Advanced Class Guide and Advanced Players Guide so I think the assumption that the books are just a bunch of guidelines still holds. The resolution to every dispute should be whatever the GM/DM decides.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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RAI: You can do a mini charge while staggered.
RAW: You can't.
You can't make those claims as you don't sit on the English language interpretation council.
You choose to interpret a rule in a different way than the more common interpretation. While generally fine, you shouldn't assert your way is the only valid interpretation. Especially when a FAQ disagrees with you.
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The issue is that the FAQ itself doesn't seem to line up with the rules. It reads more like an on the spot answer than one combines logic or consistency from the rest of the rules.
It seems a little unfair to call someone out at making a claim to a singular interpretation being the one true way when basically this entire last page or so is everyone else it seems that disagrees doing that exact same thing.
So, in truth it should look like this:
RAI: I don't know, we should ask WotC though
RAW: doesn't seem very clearly to support itself
I think, at this point, really the only thing to do is FAQ request that the existing FAQ be reevaluated. If it stands, fine. If it does contain some of the errors pointed out, might need to be changed.
A staggered barbarian can't full attack someone right in front of him but totally can partial charge -pounce someone at 30 ft away, it doesn't make sense but that's the rule.+1
Hmm. What about a Staggered Barbarian with Rhino charge and Pounce readying a charge?
I don't believe in an objective truth. That is why I am not eligible to serve jury duty.
However, unless several people came up with the same misquote, which is highly unlikely, you cannot ready a charge, normally. To do so would require an exception such as a house rule, feat, new class, or something. This also does not stop someone from preparing to charge by readying a piercing weapon, leaning into the charge, and generally getting out of the way everything they can do without a target to charge at. If they see a target, they complete the charge, right at the target. You can withhold some of the benefits of a charge if you like.