Scurrying swarmer legality


Pathfinder Society

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

22 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 9 people marked this as a favorite.

It was just pointed out to me that Scurrying Swarmer did not make the cut on dirty tactics toolbox. It looks like a clerical error to me, since it's in the chapter with 'traits and other' (from which everything else was allowed) instead of with the other feats, but if it was specifically disallowed, I disagree.

Given the scarcity of ratfolk in organized play, it is very difficult to find another to make use of my swarming ability with. As this is a rather signature ability in a race that was given as a reward, the feat is a godsend for allowing the ratfolk to actually act as a ratfolk.

Yes, it does more than that - you treat them as having your teamwork feats. Which is easily replicated through class abilities and items, or planning ahead with another player. I do not see this as unbalancing.

Please add this feature to the additional resources.

5/5 5/55/55/5

pawprint

Scarab Sages 2/5

I'll probably never get a ratfolk boon but I still would like to see this particular item legal.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Maybe it is an issue with the feat, since your ally won't actually get the swarming ability, thus creating a situation, where he would start his turn in an illegal space.
Since those rules were apparently never conceived with the swarming ability in mind, they create a bit of a conundrum.

Your ally can't make a move action and end in the same square where he started, but might be able to make a full-attack action and stay in the same square.

Silver Crusade 5/5

I don't really see that as being a problem, since the general rule about sharing squares is overridden by the specific rule of the feat.

I am also curious about the legality of the feat, since I have a ratfolk and this feat would be great for games where I'm not able to be at the same table as the other ratfolk in my area.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Racial Heritage Ratling? Now I need to read the wording of that feat to see if it works for my halfing aasimar (Non-PFS)

5/5 5/55/55/5

Quintin Verassi wrote:
Racial Heritage Ratling? Now I need to read the wording of that feat to see if it works for my halfing aasimar (Non-PFS)

Prerequisite(s): Ratfolk, swarming racial trait.

much like needing a tail to be a kobold tail terror, you need swarming to make use of it, which splinter can't give you no matter how good his parenting skills

Grand Lodge 5/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Awww...

and now I want to build a Ratling ninja with four Kappa as protoges

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

One concern I can see is that a ratling hunter with this could be brutal.

One free teamwork trait every 3 levels and he shares all his teamwork feats with his combat pet + one other PC? (+2 if the halfling rogue rides the orc fighter.)

I am sure someone can do something truly disgustingly broken with that.

True there are not a lot of ratfolk around, so it would be a rare and wonderful gift for them, and I don't have a problem with that. But if they allow this feat to be legal, they can't ever unlock ratfolk to the general public, and that would make me sad.

Silver Crusade 5/5

FLite wrote:

One concern I can see is that a ratling hunter with this could be brutal.

One free teamwork trait every 3 levels and he shares all his teamwork feats with his combat pet + one other PC? (+2 if the halfling rogue rides the orc fighter.)

I am sure someone can do something truly disgustingly broken with that.

True there are not a lot of ratfolk around, so it would be a rare and wonderful gift for them, and I don't have a problem with that. But if they allow this feat to be legal, they can't ever unlock ratfolk to the general public, and that would make me sad.

How is he sharing his teamwork feats? Is it a hunter thing? Because Scurrying Swarmer only gives you the benefit of the teamwork feats, and nobody else.

Edit: So hunter allows it to share with an AC. But while that is pretty solid, it doesn't really stand out as particularly brutal.

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

UndeadMitch wrote:
FLite wrote:

One concern I can see is that a ratling hunter with this could be brutal.

One free teamwork trait every 3 levels and he shares all his teamwork feats with his combat pet + one other PC? (+2 if the halfling rogue rides the orc fighter.)

I am sure someone can do something truly disgustingly broken with that.

True there are not a lot of ratfolk around, so it would be a rare and wonderful gift for them, and I don't have a problem with that. But if they allow this feat to be legal, they can't ever unlock ratfolk to the general public, and that would make me sad.

How is he sharing his teamwork feats? Is it a hunter thing? Because Scurrying Swarmer only gives you the benefit of the teamwork feats, and nobody else.

Edit: So hunter allows it to share with an AC. But while that is pretty solid, it doesn't really stand out as particularly brutal.

Ah.. I misread that. Okay, yeah, that isn't as bad. Never mind.

Grand Lodge 5/5

+1 for halfling orc rider

4/5 5/5 * Contributor

James Anderson wrote:

It was just pointed out to me that Scurrying Swarmer did not make the cut on dirty tactics toolbox. It looks like a clerical error to me, since it's in the chapter with 'traits and other' (from which everything else was allowed) instead of with the other feats, but if it was specifically disallowed, I disagree.

Given the scarcity of ratfolk in organized play, it is very difficult to find another to make use of my swarming ability with. As this is a rather signature ability in a race that was given as a reward, the feat is a godsend for allowing the ratfolk to actually act as a ratfolk.

Yes, it does more than that - you treat them as having your teamwork feats. Which is easily replicated through class abilities and items, or planning ahead with another player. I do not see this as unbalancing.

Please add this feature to the additional resources.

Go make a post about it in the Additional Resources sticky thread, or start doing what others have been doing and make a case for the feat. It might have simply been missed as a result of the ratfolk not being a common race.

Liberty's Edge 5/5 5/55/55/5

A ratling hunter and a swarm of kitsune in foxform?

5/5 5/55/55/5

Alexander Augunas wrote:


Go make a post about it in the Additional Resources sticky thread

GAH! no. They specifically ask people not to do that.

Quote:
or start doing what others have been doing and make a case for the feat. It might have simply been missed as a result of the ratfolk not being a common race.

*headscratch* i think thats what he's doing

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

UndeadMitch wrote:

I don't really see that as being a problem, since the general rule about sharing squares is overridden by the specific rule of the feat.

I am also curious about the legality of the feat, since I have a ratfolk and this feat would be great for games where I'm not able to be at the same table as the other ratfolk in my area.

The feat allows the ratfolk to enter the square of a willing ally, doesn't say anything about making it a legal location for the ally.

He might be fine, if he keeps standing there, but another ally certainly will not be able to enter the square of the a ratfolk even with this feat.

Silver Crusade 5/5

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
UndeadMitch wrote:

I don't really see that as being a problem, since the general rule about sharing squares is overridden by the specific rule of the feat.

I am also curious about the legality of the feat, since I have a ratfolk and this feat would be great for games where I'm not able to be at the same table as the other ratfolk in my area.

The feat allows the ratfolk to enter the square of a willing ally, doesn't say anything about making it a legal location for the ally.

He might be fine, if he keeps standing there, but another ally certainly will not be able to enter the square of the a ratfolk even with this feat.

Scurrying Swarmer wrote:
You can use your swarming racial trait to enter the square of any willing ally that is the same size as you or up to one size category larger, granting you the benefits of the swarming racial trait as if your ally were also a ratfolk with the swarming racial trait. Your ally gains no benefits from sharing its space with you unless it also has the swarming racial trait.

It feels like you're overthinking this. It's legal because the feat allows the two of them to share a square, even if the ally is a different size and even if the ally doesn't have the swarming racial trait. The general rule is that creature cannot share a square unless one of them is at least two size categories (it's either two or more than two size categories, my memory fails me here) larger than the other. The specific rules of this feat override that.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Well, they didn't fix it this time around, so it looks like my rat is going back on the shelf for a few more months.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Wanted to bring this up again in hopes of it getting into the March update.

4/5

I'd like to prompt this question for clarification, as it rules out all the non-trait options on pages 22-23. This might be intended, but it might also be a oversight by lumping them all as 'Racial Traits', rather than 'Traits'.

I've clicked FAQ. Hopefully John or someone else from the team might swing by this thread to confirm that the non-Traits for Teifling, Ratfolk and Kitsune's are or are not legal.

Cheers,

Jim

4/5

Just giving this a bump to see if we can get clarification if this Feat is illegal or was overlooked for the next issue.

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

I just FAQ'd this as well. Now it seems more important since certain circumstance have came around that makes the race more accessible. A clarification would be nice from a developer or management until it can get added.

Grand Lodge 2/5

I'd like a definitive response on this, as well.

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

One more bump from me....please take another look. Rinshin has been on the shelf for a while and looking dusty.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

I have seen what happened in a non-PFS game where this feat was allowed. The ratfolk unchained rogue, with this feat, two-weapon fighting, and the tail blade was obnoxiously strong.

After it has been a more accessible GM boon, three are quite a number of ratfolk boons out there so you might find real ratfolk to do your swarming with.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

I'm running a module now with a pair of ratfolk PCs. When you do get it running it's quite powerful for those 5ft corridor fights.

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:

.

After it has been a more accessible GM boon, three are quite a number of ratfolk boons out there so you might find real ratfolk to do your swarming with.

Not likely where I am at....Unless I feel like travelling over an hour one way.

1/5

So there's no PFS way for this feat to be legal right?

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

Not that I am aware of, unless they update the Additional Resources page to include its page from Dirty Tactics Toolbox.

Shadow Lodge

I'd like to see this feat re-examined to be allowed, personally, because
I don't think it's over-powered, it doesn't conflict with any Golarion lore or PFS-specific rules, and is not a "disruptive" option by any stretch.

This feat can be broken down into two parts. First, there's part that allows you gain the benefits of your Swarming racial trait with willing allies up to one size larger than you (which allows you to share their space, and you count as flanking if you attack the same target). I don't consider this OP because a party of ratfolk can already do this amongst themselves; this feat simply lets them do this with party members of other races, without that other person gaining benefits, which feels appropriate for a feat.

Second, it allows you to treat allies whose space you share as if they had the same teamwork feats that you have, for the purposes of you gaining benefits from them (the ally doesn't gain any benefit from those feats, unless they actually have them). Some have likened this to the Solo Tactics class feature, but I would call that a stretch; it only applies with creatures you share your space with, while Solo Tactics has no such restriction. Solo Tactics + Escape Route allows you to move around teammates without provoking; Scurrying Swarmer + Escape Route only allows you to leave their square without provoking. Solo Tactics + Friendly Fire Maneuvers allows you to shoot past teammates without them providing enemies soft cover; Scurrying Swarmer + Friendly Fire Maneuvers provides no such benefit (since they wouldn't be providing soft cover if you shared their space, anyways). Only applying to the one ally you currently share your space with is vastly less powerful than applying to all allies, regardless of positioning.

Of course, for teamwork feats that only require flanking, yeah, Scurrying Swarmer works great (assuming your flank buddy doesn't want to flank, themselves). If this part is really believed to be too powerful, I'd prefer to just see that part removed via a Campaign Clarification; being able to share an ally's space is an option that feels so uniquely "ratfolk" that it'd be a shame to limit it to only players that coordinate their characters to only play their ratfolk with each other. Which is to say, it feels a shame that this cool racial trait can only come into play if someone else at the table just happens to be playing another ratfolk.

This feat not being legal, even in a reduced form, just seems extremely disappointing, and makes playing ratfolk less like... well, like ratfolk, unless you can coordinate your character build with other players (which is unlikely at conventions).

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I'm running a module now with a pair of ratfolk PCs. When you do get it running it's quite powerful for those 5ft corridor fights.

One campaign mode module with a ratfolk unchained rogue TWF and the tail blade and that feat... it really was not fun.

1/5

So the deal is that while swarming is something ratfolk can do with other ratfolk anyways ratfolk are rare, and thus it's effectively granting them a power that they currently don't have (or close enough that you should view it that way).
And solo tactics part is still a LOT of solo tactics.

So it's like 90% allowing them to do something they can't do. and like 60-70% of solo tactics class ability.

Now I'm not judging if it should be legal or not or if it's too good. But I feel this is more accurate view of things.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I'm running a module now with a pair of ratfolk PCs. When you do get it running it's quite powerful for those 5ft corridor fights.
One campaign mode module with a ratfolk unchained rogue TWF and the tail blade and that feat... it really was not fun.

We got through the fighty part of the module, and the ratfolk duo was brutal. The flanking bonus was exploited by a 2WF rogue and a natural-weapons alchemist. And just fighting from the same square made it very easy for them to overwhelm enemies in close-quarters combats.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I'm running a module now with a pair of ratfolk PCs. When you do get it running it's quite powerful for those 5ft corridor fights.
One campaign mode module with a ratfolk unchained rogue TWF and the tail blade and that feat... it really was not fun.
We got through the fighty part of the module, and the ratfolk duo was brutal. The flanking bonus was exploited by a 2WF rogue and a natural-weapons alchemist. And just fighting from the same square made it very easy for them to overwhelm enemies in close-quarters combats.

How would that compare to just a single ratfolk that was flanking and had the same build?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

claudekennilol wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I'm running a module now with a pair of ratfolk PCs. When you do get it running it's quite powerful for those 5ft corridor fights.
One campaign mode module with a ratfolk unchained rogue TWF and the tail blade and that feat... it really was not fun.
We got through the fighty part of the module, and the ratfolk duo was brutal. The flanking bonus was exploited by a 2WF rogue and a natural-weapons alchemist. And just fighting from the same square made it very easy for them to overwhelm enemies in close-quarters combats.
How would that compare to just a single ratfolk that was flanking and had the same build?

It would mean more time spent walking around enemies to set up flanks, and would be much harder to set up flanks in tight quarters.

The ability to attack from the same square is already quite potent at low level, where you fight a lot in buildings scaled for medium creatures.

Another thing is that it's basically impossible for an enemy to avoid the flank by a pair of ratfolk. With a normal flank you can try to back into a corner or fight back to back with an ally. Other than killing the ratfolk most enemies have no way to escape the flanks. And they may not live long enough to take out one of the rats.

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I'm running a module now with a pair of ratfolk PCs. When you do get it running it's quite powerful for those 5ft corridor fights.
One campaign mode module with a ratfolk unchained rogue TWF and the tail blade and that feat... it really was not fun.
We got through the fighty part of the module, and the ratfolk duo was brutal. The flanking bonus was exploited by a 2WF rogue and a natural-weapons alchemist. And just fighting from the same square made it very easy for them to overwhelm enemies in close-quarters combats.
How would that compare to just a single ratfolk that was flanking and had the same build?

It would mean more time spent walking around enemies to set up flanks, and would be much harder to set up flanks in tight quarters.

The ability to attack from the same square is already quite potent at low level, where you fight a lot in buildings scaled for medium creatures.

Another thing is that it's basically impossible for an enemy to avoid the flank by a pair of ratfolk. With a normal flank you can try to back into a corner or fight back to back with an ally. Other than killing the ratfolk most enemies have no way to escape the flanks. And they may not live long enough to take out one of the rats.

And I have also seen a single player who min maxed and power-cheesed a brawler build and one shotted a big bad at level 9 vs CR 12......and we are worried about rats.

And being able to flank with a larger ally would I think be considered cooperation, which is key on the Pathfinder Edict.

Grand Lodge 2/5

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Sebastian Hirsch wrote:
Lau Bannenberg wrote:
I'm running a module now with a pair of ratfolk PCs. When you do get it running it's quite powerful for those 5ft corridor fights.
One campaign mode module with a ratfolk unchained rogue TWF and the tail blade and that feat... it really was not fun.
We got through the fighty part of the module, and the ratfolk duo was brutal. The flanking bonus was exploited by a 2WF rogue and a natural-weapons alchemist. And just fighting from the same square made it very easy for them to overwhelm enemies in close-quarters combats.
How would that compare to just a single ratfolk that was flanking and had the same build?

It would mean more time spent walking around enemies to set up flanks, and would be much harder to set up flanks in tight quarters.

The ability to attack from the same square is already quite potent at low level, where you fight a lot in buildings scaled for medium creatures.

Another thing is that it's basically impossible for an enemy to avoid the flank by a pair of ratfolk. With a normal flank you can try to back into a corner or fight back to back with an ally. Other than killing the ratfolk most enemies have no way to escape the flanks. And they may not live long enough to take out one of the rats.

Sorry, I meant the same build including this feat. But really, it sounds like your problem is swarming ratfolk in general not just this feat. Ratfolk were obviously intended to work this way. Why only let the few that are able to play with a dedicated friend play a ratfolk? I mean, without swarming all you've got left is a Plague Bringer otherwise any race can do the same thing.

1/5

ratfolk still have the tailblade and a nice stat distribution.

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

All fear the mighty tail blade. Flip a coin, heads 1 point, tails 2 points.

1/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Zachary Davis wrote:
All fear the mighty tail blade. Flip a coin, heads 1 point, tails 2 points.

+15 +5d6.

Shadow Lodge

Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Zachary Davis wrote:
All fear the mighty tail blade. Flip a coin, heads 1 point, tails 2 points.
+15 +5d6.

Ignoring the fact that this is a bit off-topic for this thread, how is a tailblade any different that any other race that can pick up a natural attack that doesn't use a hand, such as a half-orc with a bite?

4/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown

Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Zachary Davis wrote:
All fear the mighty tail blade. Flip a coin, heads 1 point, tails 2 points.
+15 +5d6.

And what level does this come on line. Level nine I think. Pretty sure some other classes put that to shame by that level.

At that level of play, some creatures may be immune to flanking or precision, so swarming may not even help in this matter.

And it is not. Do to the fact that if you are full attacking it is counted as a secondary weapon.

EDIT: I apologize for taking part in the derailing of this thread. This is just one of the feats I am passionate about.

1/5

the deal is is that ratfolk can already easily get claws and bites and basically every other natural attack available to a half-orc, the difference is is that the tail is a spot that the half-orc can't get without changing forms.

This is strong for mediums, unchained barbs, fighters, rogues, paladins, etc. Anything that gets nice flat attack and damage bonuses could appreciate ratfolk and their extra easily obtained tail attack.

Plus it's a lot of natural attacks on a small character, I'm not aware of other small characters that can get racial natural attacks.

Not that these are OP, but they are reasons to take a ratfolk over another race without swarming factoring in.

1/5

Zachary Davis wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Zachary Davis wrote:
All fear the mighty tail blade. Flip a coin, heads 1 point, tails 2 points.
+15 +5d6.
And what level does this come on line. Level nine I think.

3 rogue, 1 snakebite brawler, vicious amulet of mighty fists gets 5d6

Dex to damage gets +5. that's a good chunk of damage at lv4 and not doable by other races.

Like it wasn't any example I had in mind, just the idea that the base damage doesn't really matter.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

claudekennilol wrote:
Sorry, I meant the same build including this feat. But really, it sounds like your problem is swarming ratfolk in general not just this feat. Ratfolk were obviously intended to work this way. Why only let the few that are able to play with a dedicated friend play a ratfolk? I mean, without swarming all you've got left is a Plague Bringer otherwise any race can do the same thing.

It was meant to give an answer to people asking "is it really this strong?" - the answer is Hell Yeah!

Compared to a party with another ratfolk, the feat gives you:
- You can now to this with any PC, not just the one other ratfolk PC
- You can do this with any party
- And you gain easy teamwork feats as a cherry on top

Is my problem with Swarming? After seeing it in action, I think Swarming is one of those race traits that are fine for an NPC race that makes an appearance for the occasional episode, but it's very iffy as a PC race thing; either it's useless or it'll quickly get completely out of hand. So yeah, I do have concerns about Swarming.

"But you're not banning Swarming" - yeah, sometimes you can't solve all problems, but that's no reason not to do damage control.

Shadow Lodge

Lau Bannenberg wrote:

Compared to a party with another ratfolk, the feat gives you:

- You can now to this with any PC, not just the one other ratfolk PC
- You can do this with any party
- And you gain easy teamwork feats as a cherry on top

- The other PC gains no benefit from you sharing their space, which makes it significantly less potent than swarming with another ratfolk, and means that said PC will likely want to move for a Real Flank (tm). Let's also not forget that you're only considered flanking when you're attacking the same target as the other PC, which means more timing issues than standard flanking.

- Holy crap, spending a feat to keep racial traits relevant despite party composition? OMG OP HAX CAN'T ALLOW THIS IN ORGANIZED PLAY I MEAN BASIC CHARACTER ABILITIES SHOULD ALWAYS REQUIRE META COORDINATION

- Like I said before, if the teamwork feat portion of Scurrying Swarmer pushes this into "too powerful" territory, I'd rather see it excised in PFS than the feat simply being not allowed.

Your problem is clearly Swarming, not Scurrying Swarmer. If Swarming is considered appropriate for the campaign, I see no reason to give players who coordinate to play with other ratfolk at the table the ability to use it and not PCs who spend a feat so they can play their ratfolk without such coordination.

Shadow Lodge

Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Zachary Davis wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Zachary Davis wrote:
All fear the mighty tail blade. Flip a coin, heads 1 point, tails 2 points.
+15 +5d6.
And what level does this come on line. Level nine I think.

3 rogue, 1 snakebite brawler, vicious amulet of mighty fists gets 5d6

Dex to damage gets +5. that's a good chunk of damage at lv4 and not doable by other races.

Like it wasn't any example I had in mind, just the idea that the base damage doesn't really matter.

Your problem is with natural weapons builds, not Scurrying Swarmer.

1/5

SCPRedMage wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Zachary Davis wrote:
Thomas Hutchins wrote:
Zachary Davis wrote:
All fear the mighty tail blade. Flip a coin, heads 1 point, tails 2 points.
+15 +5d6.
And what level does this come on line. Level nine I think.

3 rogue, 1 snakebite brawler, vicious amulet of mighty fists gets 5d6

Dex to damage gets +5. that's a good chunk of damage at lv4 and not doable by other races.

Like it wasn't any example I had in mind, just the idea that the base damage doesn't really matter.

Your problem is with natural weapons builds, not Scurrying Swarmer.

Someone said "Without swarming ratfolk are worthless" So I responded saying that the tailblade was a strong reason to still play a ratfolk without swarming. So I'm saying the ratfolk is still a solid race without scurrying swarmer.

We had a PFS player in our lodge that actually got up to lv4 rogue using this feat before it was found out it was illegal. He was able to flank ALL the time, between not needing people to be in a dangerous position and not needing to move as far since you just need to get to the closest square cause the ally is in there, especially if the enemy charges to your ally, then you 5ft into it and full attack with flank, when you'd normally need to move for flank.

And the guy you're in doesn't care, sure he'd like a flank, but he knows that a rogue shouldn't be getting into that dangerous spot, and the guy is going to be full attacking as that's better than getting the 1 flank.

So this feat is very strong, I think it's neat, but I'm not surprised that PFS banned it since it's an option one would be excited to use.

5/5 5/55/55/5

It would be nice to know if PFS banned it for being strong or just being the next page over on a race that wasn't really in pfs at the time.

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