(Frog God Games) Richard Pett's The Blight Kickstarter


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I do love boxed sets. :)

The Exchange

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Dragnmoon wrote:
I know that they are planning a Lost Lands Campaign book but this last update was the first time I noticed it was going to be a Boxed Set!

me to. And I shudder when thinking about what this may mean for my ability to support the kickstarter, because (shipping included) I don't think that I'll have the necessary bucks to do so.

Dark Archive

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They had started mention of a Lost Lands Campaign Setting here and there - mostly on their forums, I believe. Skeeter Green had mentioned it would be a box set in one of the comments sections of a Kickstarter also. Hopefully there will be something that can be done for overseas shipping.

I am really looking forward to the box set too. I believe Mountains of Madness will be the next Kickstarter but that is just my own speculation.

Scarab Sages

They've released the existing environment books to coincide in tandem with the BackerKit for some of their other Kickstarters, so I'm guessing it will become available that way (plus the normal channels) rather than its own dedicated KS.


Isn't there an alchemy guide on the way at some point?

I was hoping that was going to be the next 'little' kickstarter.

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Greg Vaughn and Tom Knauss both stated that Mountains of Madness and Marshes of Malice would be through a combined Kickstarter later this year or early next year. My speculation is on whether it would be the next one or will come after the Lost Lands Campaign Box.

No clue on the alchemy guide other than it is listed in the products section of the newer books.


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Whoa, whoa, whoa. Mountains of Madness?! Where can I read anymore/ anything about this?

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Jam412 wrote:
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Mountains of Madness?! Where can I read anymore/ anything about this?

There was a very, very small blurb about it posted by Tom Knauss on the FGG forums. Both Mountains of Madness and Marshes of Malice will be in the same vein as Fields of Blood and Dunes of Desolation.

From Greg:

Quote:
Mountains of Madness does indeed have complete information on the dwarven pantheon. It'll cover all your dwarven godly bases of both the common and obscure dwarven gods that you'd come to expect from the past FGG and NG products but is likely going to have a few surprises for you as well. Stay tuned!

Tom Knauss also posted earlier today that they are still planned to release both via a Kickstarter in early 2017. I'm also assuming they will be in PF/S&W/5e flavors like their most recent Kickstarters.


I just hope they dont release any of these pending kickstarters until The Blight is completely fulfilled.


GM_Sarc wrote:
I just hope they dont release any of these pending kickstarters until The Blight is completely fulfilled.

Or at least until we have the PDFs. (Because at that point it's at the printer and we should be good to go.)


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Personally I don't care if other ks are released first. It is just they way the fulfilment works. No point hanging other releases back just to make it chronological! If it's ready, release. I'm not saying divert effort/manpower from The Blight to others so they do release, but no point delaying finished releases for no other reason that 'that's not fair'


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I expect them to do what's best for the company. ^^ In many cases, that means starting new projects before finishing old ones, aiming for a steady stream of funding and releases.


GM_Sarc wrote:
I just hope they dont release any of these pending kickstarters until The Blight is completely fulfilled.

I realized I was unclear on this. What I meant was that I hope they dont launch any new kickstarter campaigns until the current ones are fulfilled.

Normally I wouldnt have a problem with a company keeping a full development and release pipeline but it appeared from comments on the Bards Gate kickstarter that product development for FGG is largely zero sum. Any time spent by layout, editing, quality control on a new kickstarter would necessarily mean resources taken off of the Blight.


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GM_Sarc wrote:
GM_Sarc wrote:
I just hope they dont release any of these pending kickstarters until The Blight is completely fulfilled.

I realized I was unclear on this. What I meant was that I hope they dont launch any new kickstarter campaigns until the current ones are fulfilled.

Normally I wouldnt have a problem with a company keeping a full development and release pipeline but it appeared from comments on the Bards Gate kickstarter that product development for FGG is largely zero sum. Any time spent by layout, editing, quality control on a new kickstarter would necessarily mean resources taken off of the Blight.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case.

I know that in publishing, you need to have projects at all stages of the development lifecycle at all times, so that you will be able to consistenly bring new products to market at a sustainable rate.

Dark Archive

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Greg posted a response to quite a few questions in the comments of The Blight Kickstarter. Most of them have no relevant context, but those that do are bolded and have the question as italics.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

First: Bloody Jack is ready!!! The 3 versions of the pdf have been given to Chris to begin distribution to backers.

Second: Questions/Comments below

I'm just sad about the delays. Every time I have to announce to my group that it is delayed again, it seems to take a little wind out of their sails.I know when it finally ships it is going to be like getting this bad ass treasure chest of wickedness from Richard Pett.
@Ryan - The main book pdf will be available for distribution before it returns from the printer as well.

@Patrick - Thanks!
@David - (talking about Steve Winter) Of TSR fame and more recently of WotC fame.
@Heine Stick - Indeed

So I see a date for literally everything BUT the main book. Any update on that one, captain?
@Marquis - The main book is moving simultaneously to all the above but will be the last thing completed because of its size/scope. It's the estimated Q1 date I gave in the post.

I am a little disappointed at the focus on stretch goals over the main project. I get why some of the stretch goals should come first - the Tome of Blighted Horrors feeding into the main book makes sense but I have a hard time seeing how so many of the adventures feed directly into the main book
@Sam - It's not really a focus on the stretch goals so much as the fact that they become available as the process progresses and not holding them while awaiting the completion of the main volume. Rest assured, there are many cogs in The Blight machine; even as the smaller books are completed and made ready for distribution the work on the main book continues as well in other quarters.

@Everyone - Thanks all! Look for Bloody Jack as your first taste of The Blight with more to follow.
Greg


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Got, downloaded, starting to devour... recruitment thread already live :P


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Aww, you beat me to it. XD That said... I'm slapping up a recruitment as well. I've been waiting to run this one.

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Bloody Jack is brutal. Love it!


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Zhern wrote:
Bloody Jack is brutal. Love it!

Oh yeah, a flip through has me salivating for The Blight, to quote

THE WARNING

"This adventure contains mature themes that may not be
suitable for some readers or players. As mentioned in the ad
materials and introduction to this adventure, it explores the
mystery surrounding a serial killer that singled out children thirty
years ago and works to prevent him from starting his killing
again. "

So I'll probably never game The Blight cos I game with my kids

"As the father of young children who play roleplaying games,
I would probably not allow them to play Bloody Jack, or even
other products from The Blight for that matter."

But reading this taster it is still money well spent!

Frog God Games

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We will be releasing each piece as a pdf as soon as it is ready...so expect fairly frequent releases of the smaller pieces while we get each done. It may be a bit longer for the big one--but its coming as fast as I can whip Greg!


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Bloody Jack is a beautifully brutal and evocative introduction into the setting. The redacted and the bit with the redacted... oh and the denouement where the redacted, redacted at the redacted.

Consider the whistle well wet and salivating for the rest of the goodies.


GM Rednal wrote:
I think the explanation they gave was that time spent writing updates was time not spent working, doubly so when they had that printing deadline to meet. Though, I've given advice to other companies doing Kickstarters, and my usual suggestion is to update backers every two weeks no matter what. It doesn't have to be a giant update or anything - just a quick "we're still working on this and things are on schedule" is all that's really necessary. XD Takes literally a minute to write. End your Friday with that and you're good.

This, I am used to this with Frog God but I always think... they would probably make an additional 10% on this kickstarter if they sent out a short note every time we broke a stretch goal... mostly just cause it generates excitement and reminds backers to add to their pledges early (thus generating more revenue to break more stretch goals)

I mean I guess it's cause I write emails for a living (essentially) - I don't understand the idea that updates are time consuming - but then again I don't know what the backend of kickstarter updates looks like, so I could be wrong.

That said, I've just come to accept the Frogs are not super spammy on the emails, even if I'd like them to be. I love their work and even though I haven't got any physical product yet from a kickstarter (I've backed 3 now) I trust they will deliver.


Zhern wrote:


Tom Knauss also posted earlier today that they are still planned to release both via a Kickstarter in early 2017. I'm also assuming they will be in PF/S&W/5e flavors like their most recent Kickstarters.

They will only be in pathfinder, as the environment books are more rules heavy (they have lots of environmental rules, archetypes etc) in them they don't feel like there is enough meat for 5e and SW - so what they do instead is take the adventures in them and put those adventures into "quests of doom" books for 5e and SW - which is one of the reasons why there are more quests of doom books for 5e and SW than for pathfinder (which only has one).

Marshes and Mountains are going to be the next KS, box set will be later in the year.

Dark Archive

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cycnet wrote:
Zhern wrote:


Tom Knauss also posted earlier today that they are still planned to release both via a Kickstarter in early 2017. I'm also assuming they will be in PF/S&W/5e flavors like their most recent Kickstarters.

They will only be in pathfinder, as the environment books are more rules heavy (they have lots of environmental rules, archetypes etc) in them they don't feel like there is enough meat for 5e and SW - so what they do instead is take the adventures in them and put those adventures into "quests of doom" books for 5e and SW - which is one of the reasons why there are more quests of doom books for 5e and SW than for pathfinder (which only has one).

Marshes and Mountains are going to be the next KS, box set will be later in the year.

Ah, I do recall seeing that on the Frog's board that it would be PF only. Easy enough to use for S&W/5E. My group stopped playing PF awhile back so I've gotten used to stripping PF rules out of things.


I am a little surprised we haven't seen anything distributed since Bloody Jack. The last update made it sound like the crucible was imminent.

Hoping we get some more pieces and that there is some significant progress before the holidays!


Over a month since we have heard anything... update please!


It certainly did sound that we were likely at the cusp of getting our second adventure when we received a last project update... I think FGG were waiting for a cover painting and then it was 'into the pipeline for distribution' - either it's a real masterpiece of a cover painting or the 'pipeline for distribution' is more complicated than it sounds. I too would appreciate a little more communication from the 'Froggies' than we are getting... it is now over a month since we were told more stuff was imminent and that Greg was going to be AWOL for 12 days (and, given his reasons for being absent, I am sure I speak for everyone when I say that period away from Castorhage was totally understandable) - I just don't think that it is unreasonable, especially as folks are asking for updates on the KS comments page, for another FGG person to step in and - at least - tell us that work is carrying on (I'm pretty confident it is!!!) and when we might get a more detailed timeline for delivery...

From my perspective as a backer, I think it is a real shame that the KS itself (which was in full flow a year ago) was so well run - probably the best RPG KS I have been involved in - with really good informative... and exciting... comms - and since then, apart from the flurry of preview illustrations from the Tome of Blighted Horrors in August, the level of interaction with backers has dropped off hugely.

On the plus side though, Bloody Jack is a twisted masterpiece of intrigue and adventure, if everything else 'of the Blight' keeps to this level then it will - in the end - have been worth it!!!


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I think a lot of backers would like to hear more often, even if it was literally just like, "yep, still editing."

I am personally fine with their communication for the most part - but I think this one is just late enough that folks that are maybe newer to the company's style and track record are getting anxious.

I am super excited to get my hands on it, and hold no doubts that they will deliver. I'll be honest I am always a bit mystified by folks who seem surprised by kickstarters delivering late. This one still really isn't really outside the realm of reasonable lateness.


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Having backed a number of projects, my default assumption is that a project will be at least 25% late, more if they hit any number of stretch goals - deadlines are planned for the basic product, after all, and making more stuff naturally means taking longer to do. XD

Dark Archive

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Agree with both Cycnet and Rednal - people need to realize that Kickstarter isn't a store. The dates listed on rewards are usually based on a decently informed estimate of the level of effort to complete the base product. Add in stretch goals and then the "deadline" is skewed. Much like in software dev, people should think of it as a high level estimate based on what is known at the time of project launch. A high level estimate can vary by +/- 50%, meaning it can end up being up to 50% longer than originally believed (it could also be shorter but that rarely, if ever happens).

Yeah, I'd like to hear more often too, but I will always take into account the people factor. Creators are people and people have responsibilities beyond making sure that Kickstarter backers are always warm and fuzzy. Greg finished up his exams at the end of November for his residency and then was planning a solid month of vacation to work on The Blight. I'm confident he'll emerge and give us an update sooner than later. His livelihood is one of those people factors/responsibilities. I'm definitely willing to cut someone slack for family, jobs, illness, etc.

Also, Bill said Bard's Gate has been shipped with the exception of the gigantic maps and the forged/metal cover copies. He and his family busted their butts to get it all shipped prior to Christmas after it managed to clear customs sooner than expected. Not to mention, the Swords & Wizardry 3rd printing is going to ship shortly after New Years, so what will be coming too. All in all, 2017 is going to be a huge content year for Frog God, especially if we end up seeing Kickstarter campaigns for Mountains of Madness/Marshes of Malice and the Lost Lands Campaign Setting. Exciting times.

In the meantime, I have a stack of books to catch up on, Crypts & Things to run, a Curse of the Crimson Throne to S&W or 5E conversion to do, and the Swords & Wizardry Rules/Reference for Fantasy Grounds to finish. No shortage of cool stuff to do, just not enough time.


Zhern wrote:
A high level estimate can vary by +/- 50%, meaning it can end up being up to 50% longer than originally believed (it could also be shorter but that rarely, if ever happens).

This one is already at the 50% over due estimate (or just about at it) and doesn't show any sign of being done anytime soon. Given how long it takes just to print and distribute I wouldn't be surprised to see this end up around 100% time overrun. For a book that was ALREADY written according to their campaign that's a pretty massive delay.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

We've got another update here, since some seem anxious.


GM_Sarc wrote:
This one is already at the 50% over due estimate (or just about at it) and doesn't show any sign of being done anytime soon. Given how long it takes just to print and distribute I wouldn't be surprised to see this end up around 100% time overrun. For a book that was ALREADY written according to their campaign that's a pretty massive delay.

Well, the most recent update on the KS (and the comments made by Bill Webb in response to ETA) kinda bears out the scale of the overrun - delivery of the book is now targetted for Q2/Q3 next year (so it could well be a full year past the original projection)... however, it's not all doom and gloom - reading the detail of what is in the update...

Frog Gods via Kickstarter wrote:
So…we apologize for the lateness, but have faith, this monster will get there eventually. I don’t want to promise a date yet (I will after the main book is done in layout), but we are moving along. Greg should post an update in the next 3-4 weeks (once all the modules and monster book are completed).

...it seems likely that we should have a plethora pf PDF's (modules and the Tome of Blighted Horrors) by the end of January.


Definitely disappointing that the delivery date just keeps falling farther behind.

I dont know if the frogs were just absurdly optimistic about this kickstarter (to a really ridiculous level?) or if they gamed the system a little bit but I definitely have lost my confidence in their kickstarters going forward. Love their products but I will be buying them retail from now on.

Dark Archive

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I always get a laugh out of things like this. Yeah, it is disappointing that the dates get pushed back, but does it really matter? Not one bit. The work will get done, the stuff will be very high quality and be delivered, unlike Far West or Spinward Traveller or any of that stuff.

The book ballooned from an estimated 800-900 pages to over 1100 last I heard. Adventures that were originally going to be 25-40 pages ended up being 70+. I don't see that as a problem, I see it as a bonus. More content at the cost of what? Time? Oh well, there is plenty of stuff going on to occupy my free time as it is.

Frog God's products will always get delivered and will always be high quality. That is enough for me.

Scarab Sages

New Update posted today


Zhern wrote:

I always get a laugh out of things like this. Yeah, it is disappointing that the dates get pushed back, but does it really matter? Not one bit. The work will get done, the stuff will be very high quality and be delivered, unlike Far West or Spinward Traveller or any of that stuff.

The book ballooned from an estimated 800-900 pages to over 1100 last I heard. Adventures that were originally going to be 25-40 pages ended up being 70+. I don't see that as a problem, I see it as a bonus. More content at the cost of what? Time? Oh well, there is plenty of stuff going on to occupy my free time as it is.

Frog God's products will always get delivered and will always be high quality. That is enough for me.

The timeline DOES really matter for many of us. I dont buy gaming books to read, I buy them to use the material at the table and usually I have a window of time when I can make use of that material. If a book ends up getting delayed so much that I am not able to use that material when I intended to, then I effectively wasted money on the purchase.

I know kickstarters are never on time. I felt reasonable confident that a plus or minus 50% error margin would be enough time for this to be completed (given that the campaign indicated the book was already written) which still put it in the useful time frame for me. The fact that this project ballooned to such an extent that its not going to fall in that +- 50% window means I am no longer sure that I am going to be able to use this product.

For lots of people that buy gaming books to read or without any set plan to use them the delay probably doesnt matter. I am fairly confident that I am not alone in only buying books I have a set plan to use though.

Dark Archive

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Befuddled GM wrote:
Zhern wrote:

I always get a laugh out of things like this. Yeah, it is disappointing that the dates get pushed back, but does it really matter? Not one bit. The work will get done, the stuff will be very high quality and be delivered, unlike Far West or Spinward Traveller or any of that stuff.

The book ballooned from an estimated 800-900 pages to over 1100 last I heard. Adventures that were originally going to be 25-40 pages ended up being 70+. I don't see that as a problem, I see it as a bonus. More content at the cost of what? Time? Oh well, there is plenty of stuff going on to occupy my free time as it is.

Frog God's products will always get delivered and will always be high quality. That is enough for me.

The timeline DOES really matter for many of us. I dont buy gaming books to read, I buy them to use the material at the table and usually I have a window of time when I can make use of that material. If a book ends up getting delayed so much that I am not able to use that material when I intended to, then I effectively wasted money on the purchase.

I know kickstarters are never on time. I felt reasonable confident that a plus or minus 50% error margin would be enough time for this to be completed (given that the campaign indicated the book was already written) which still put it in the useful time frame for me. The fact that this project ballooned to such an extent that its not going to fall in that +- 50% window means I am no longer sure that I am going to be able to use this product.

For lots of people that buy gaming books to read or without any set plan to use them the delay probably doesnt matter. I am fairly confident that I am not alone in only buying books I have a set plan to use though.

Fair enough and makes sense.


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I've had my first read through of the Crucible and it's another fascinating (if vaguely disturbing) insight into the world of the Blight - I've already got a recruitment going for a PbP here on the boards (by invite only though) and I'm pretty excited about running this...

...and we should have the Tome of Blighted Horrors with us soon - looks like 2017 is making up for the bad dream that was 2016!!!


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I dunno... The Bight is a bad dream, but in a good way!

As for the delay in the main book... I would pretty much always choose quality over on-time, especially with anything crowdfunded.


Me too Haladir. I am looking forward to this beast, though I have compassion for those whose plans have been derailed by the delay, I am thankful that it is being worked over carefully.


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New Update over on Kickstarter - things are getting tidied up for all of the "extra" bits, and work on the crunchiest parts of the big book are underway. Things are definitely moving forward, though.


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It's a nice meaty update!

I know I'm in the minority here but I kind of like that the long delay means I'm going to have a lot of gaming goodies hitting me like a truck parade over the next few months - will make it easier for me to save a bit knowing that I am getting lots of stuff in the mail... easier to say "naw I don't need that new gaming book" when I am getting the Complete Gamer from the Frog's Swords and Wiz kickstarter, a bunch of product from the Reaper Bones 3 KS and then this.... Should be a fun few months.


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Three big Pathfinder kickstarters I backed back in 2015 are all getting fairly close to delivery... This one, Robert Brookes' Aethera Campaign Setting, and Sandy Petersen's Cthulhu Mythos for Pathfinder (which James Jacobs is also working on!)

Combine that with the Freeport: City of Adventure hardcover that I bought myself as a late Christmas present, I (will) have a LOT of reading to do!


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Nice! I also bought myself Freeport for Christmas! It's a great book. I couldn't resist after getting the pdf from the Frog God Games humble bundle.

If anyone needs some reading material to tide them over until the Blight arrives, I bought a couple extra humble bundle codes for that (one $1 pledge level and one second tier pledge level) and I'd be happy to gift them to good homes - especially fellow worshippers of the Frog God.


And FGG releases another Kickstarter before they can even give us a timeline for release on this one.

Even if the new release only takes away a small amount of resources from the blight its pretty ridiculous.

The way FGG has handled this is definitely souring me on any further support of their company.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

I firmly support your decision either way.


GM_Sarc wrote:
Even if the new release only takes away a small amount of resources from the blight its pretty ridiculous.

What if it takes away none? (As seems likely).


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GM_Sarc wrote:

And FGG releases another Kickstarter before they can even give us a timeline for release on this one.

Even if the new release only takes away a small amount of resources from the blight its pretty ridiculous.

The way FGG has handled this is definitely souring me on any further support of their company.

It's business.

I'm getting the feeling you don't really understand the publishing industry...

Book publishing uses very different skill sets at different stages of development. For most publishers, the personnel who work on a specific stage of the production cycle have highly specialized skill-sets, making them experts on their particular part. In other words, the people working on final copyfitting generally are NOT the same people who do the initial design work. So, starting a new product won't take any resources away from those working on finalizing a product that's nearing the end of its production cycle.

In order to stay profitable, publishers need to have products at all stages of the production cycle, so they can constantly bring new products to market.


I completely understand GM-Sarc's position - especially if you haven't bought much from FGG. It's so frustrating to see another Kickstarter from a company if the product you're *really* wanting is delayed.

I have almost everything FGG has done so I'm not worried about the situation, but if I were GM-Sarc, I'd skip the Kickstarter and buy the books when they are available if you're interested.

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