Hey All,
This is my first post after being a long time lurker but I was just hoping you guys could double check my math/abilities to make sure I'm not missing anything.
I'm currently playing an 11th level Qinggong/Drunken Master/Monk of the Sacred Mountain. Up to this point, I've been making full use of the Pummeling Style/Charge feats but when I am unable to charge, I wanted to be able to do something else. I decided it would be grappling (because why not).
At 12th and 13th level, I will be taking levels in the Brawler's Strangler archetype, to prevent losing my dex while grappling (and to get the extra sneak attack damage). Then I will start taking levels in fighter (probably lore warden) for the bonus feats.
Ability Scores:
Str: 7
Dex: 24
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 20
Cha: 5
Feats so far:
1: Weapon Finesse and Dodge (Monk)
2: Improved Grapple (Monk)
3: Piranha Strike
5: Craft Wondrous Item (this was taken because of my backstory)
6: Mobility (Monk)
7: Pummeling Style (Retrained after I had the proper prereqs)
9: Pummeling Charge
10: Medusa's Wrath (Monk)
11: Agile Maneuvers
From here, I will be taking:
13: Greater Grapple and Rapid Grapple (Brawler)
14: Kraken Style (Fighter)
15: Kraken Wrack and Weapon Focus: Grapple (Fighter)
For gear I will be getting the Brawling enchantment put on my bracers of armor and picking up the Pale Green Ioun Stone + Wayfinder.
So at 13th level (where I will really begin making use of grappling), my CMB will be as follows:
BAB: 13
Dex: 7
Imp Grapple: 2
Greater: 2
Brawling: 2
Ioun Stone: 2
Total: 28
Am I missing any major magic items or feats that would also help me boost my cmb higher? According to the average monster cmd at CR 13, I would need to roll a 9 to succeed.
Unfair Grip.
Trait: Bred for War.
Also could look into the Grabbing Style feats.
Items: Anaconda's Coils Belt, Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver.
I don't have enough strength for the Unfair Grip feat :(
I also should've mentioned I already have a Belt of Incredible Dex +4 and Stonefist Gloves.
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Celestial Obedience: Falayna is good for a +4 sacred bonus to grapple checks, and to CMD. And you get scaling abilities along with that. At level 12 you can have divine favor 3/day. At level 16 you can increase your weapon damage die by 1 size for your level in rounds/day, as a swift action. At 20th level you get crushing hand 1/day. All this for the low low price of worshiping an Empyreal Lord, and punching a training bag every morning.
EDIT - Also, you can't put the Brawling enchantment on bracers of armor, it needs to be put on light armor, which bracers of armor are not. It sucks, but it was designed not to be used by monks.
EDIT #2 - You probably also want to slot a Dusty Rose Prism into the Wayfinder instead of the Pale Green Prism, unless you plan on being fatigued a lot. It's good for a +2 insight bonus to CMB/CMD (unless that's the ioun stone you mean, I just notice you have a +2 bonus from ioun stones listed already). Also a cracked or flawed Pale Green Ioun stone would add to your grapple checks as well, I like the cracked version for the 4000 GP cost, but at these levels you can afford the non cracked version.
Yeah the stones was just a mix up :)
As for the brawling enchantment, my DM might allow me to house rule them since he is pretty lenient with stuff like that.
And thanks for the Celestial Obedience! That's a great feat for more than just the grappling bonus.
I would suggest avoiding the Kraken style feats... Grabbing Style or Even Snapping Turtle Style with Clutch is a much better way to go. Celestial Obeience for Falayna is a very good feat. Also look into the Dan Bong with Brawling enchantment. The rest has pretty much been covered. If you're human, make sure to use the Brawler's human FCB to get more boost to your CMD vs. grappling. With your low strength that's going to penalize your CMD and make it easier for people to escape your grapple.
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Zamereon wrote: Am I missing any major magic items or feats that would also help me boost my cmb higher? According to the average monster cmd at CR 13, I would need to roll a 9 to succeed. I can think of a few.
Armbands of the Brawler 500gp, +1CMB
Brawler Armor Enchantment +1 equivalent, +2CMB
Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver: 4000gp, +2CMB
Cracked, Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone, 5000gp, +1 all attack rolls
Belt of Dexterity: 4000gp for +2 Dex
Robe of Infinite Twine, 1000gp, because your goal as a Grappler should not be to inflict damage, but to Tie opponents Up.
Now for some Feats and Class Abilities.
There is Weapon Focus Grapple, of course.
Take 2 levels in Cavalier, Order of the Penitent. You get a bonus Teamwork Feat, and the Tactician ability grants that Feat to all allies within 30'. I recommend the Coordinated Maneuvers Feat, which grants a +2 on all Combat Maneuver Checks.
But what you really want is what you'll get at level 2: Expert Captor. Expert Captor lets you Tie Up a Grappled--not Pinned!--opponent, and you don't take the -10 you normally do. So, with Greater Grapple and Expert Captor, you if you begin your round adjacent to your opponent, you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action then Tie him Up as a Move Action. You'll be wanting some strong rope. The best I can come up with that might not be exactly PFS legal is an Adamantine Dwarven Dorn Dergar, which is mostly a 10' chain.
Take 4 levels in Alchemist.
At level 2, grow a Tentacle: +4 on all Grapple Checks.
At level 4, get a King Crab Tumor Familiar: +2 on grapple checks, and you can play a really neat defensive trick if you are interested.
At level 1, you get Mutagens. A Dex Mutagen will give you a +4 Dex, a +2 Natural Armor Bonus (and -2 Wisdom) for 10 minutes which will stack with a Belt of Dexterity.
As a Drunken Master, you can take mutagens and extracts without provoking attacks of opportunity, but you really want to take the Potion Glutton Feat. This will let you drink any potable as a Swift Action, and Mutagens and Extracts are potable! Now I will tell you what your favorite Extract is:
True Strike: +20 on your attack roll! Normally, you need a Standard Action to take/cast True Strike, and you can still take a Standard Action, but with Potion Glutton, you can pop your extract as a Swift Action. So you might cast True Strike on yourself (I like Wands.) on round 1 and Move up to your opponent. Then the next round, you Initiate a Grapple at an extra +20 (making your CMB +50 pretty soon if you follow my advice) as a Standard Action, pop your Extract of True Strike as a Swift Action, then Tie Up your Opponent as a Move Action.
You will have about a 91% chance of taking out anything smaller than a Balor Demon in 1 round. You could have been doing that by level 9.
The Lore Warden Fighter Archetype is pretty good for Grappling, too.
Oops, I forgot about the Adhesive Armor Enchantment: 7000gp, +2 Grapple checks.
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Ring of protection, no bonus to your CMB but it adds to your CMD.
Blade of binding, it is affordable at that level.
Tentacle cloak gives you grab once per day.
Ring of ki mastery will boost your CMD.
Gauntlets of the twisting vines for a +2 circumstance bonus to the CMB.
You are trying for a switch hitter, which means your bonuses do not need to be as high (because you will not be trying to pin and tie up iron golems). But you could shut down casters and high mobility enemies. I like it.
DM Livgin wrote: Ring of protection, no bonus to your CMB but it adds to your CMD.
Blade of binding, it is affordable at that level.
Tentacle cloak gives you grab once per day.
Ring of ki mastery will boost your CMD.
Gauntlets of the twisting vines for a +2 circumstance bonus to the CMB.
Good ones.
DM Livgin wrote: You are trying for a switch hitter, which means your bonuses do not need to be as high (because you will not be trying to pin and tie up iron golems). But you could shut down casters and high mobility enemies. I like it. In principle, yes.
But the OP is a Brawler, what else is he supposed to do with an Iron Golem: karate chop his way through its DR 15/adamantine?
Grappling the way I just said is a good method for bypassing a creature's Damage Reduction in addition to shutting down spellcasters. And silly as it sounds, it really is THE way to fight a Balor Demon: if you actually kill a Balor demon it explodes for 100 points of damage in a 100' radius. But it won't do that if you tie it up. Not unless it dies from embarrassment, anyway.
There are 2 things Grappling really doesn't work on: crowds and incorporeals. The latter might be fixed with the Ghost Touch Enchantment, say with a Ghost Touch Amulet of Mighty Fists augmenting your Tentacle. Maybe an Amulet of Natural Armor, Ghost Touch, but while conceptually those should work just fine, a GM may disallow those at least partially.
As for crowds, Grabbing Style helps a little, but better to follow DM Livgin's advice to not rely on Grappling and have more than 1 trick hidden in under your Black Belt, say a Lucerne Hammer you can Quickdraw and then use Great Cleave with or maybe one of those kung fu chain weapons like a Kusarigama.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: But the OP is a Brawler, what else is he supposed to do with an Iron Golem: karate chop his way through its DR 15/adamantine?
...
As for crowds, Grabbing Style helps a little, but better to follow DM Livgin's advice to not rely on Grappling and have more than 1 trick hidden in under your Black Belt, say a Lucerne Hammer you can Quickdraw and then use Great Cleave with or maybe one of those kung fu chain weapons like a Kusarigama.
Dealing with DR isn't really an issue for me thanks to pummeling style. At 11th level I have been dealing on average around 100 points of damage per turn (3d8 + 13 per attack, attacking 6-7 times per round, hitting about 2/3 of the time). With pummeling style and DR 15, that is still 85 points of damage.
As far as crowds, that isn't my job. The rest of my party is pretty good at dealing with lots of little creatures. My job in the group is mainly to find the big bad guy and make him focus on me by any means necessary, whether by high damage or by now doing grappling.
This is why I've been looking at grappling. In the case I am unable to charge the big guy and can only move up to him, I wanted something to do other than punch him once. My damage is still my primary focus, so grappling is just an occasional thing.
I do appreciate all the info though! This has given me a lot more to think about than I was originally planning on. The 4 levels of alchemist might be more enjoyable than the Strangler/Lore Warden route, since the alch would give more out of combat features as well.
Looks like just about everything I knew of has been covered (plus I learned about some other interesting items and celestial obedience- Falayna).
Some additional possibilities are-
Extreme Flexibility (SL2) - +1 Dodge AC, +4 circ bonus to E.Artist and CMB/CMD with grapple for 1 minute/level. Just an idea for level-dip or consumable.
Gladiator's Sandals - 6,000g +4 circ bonus to CMB in surprise round. Not necessarily worthwhile as it is circumstantial (fitting for the bonus) and the performance aspect of the item is useless in PFS I believe. But just fyi.
Thorny Violet Ioun Stone - [Cracked- 3,200g] +1 comp bonus grapple [Flawed- 6,900g] +2 comp grapple -2 CMD vs grapple [Normal- 8,000g] +2 comp grapple
If the OP was a brawler, DR wouldn't be an issue because brawlers get increased weapon damage. I've got a level 10 PFS brawler with a couple adamantine cestus if I need them, but who, unarmed, does about 35 damage a hit on average against evil opponents at a +15/+15/+10/+10 (soon to be +17/+17/+14/+14/+9 next level), and can drop a 20+ on any combat maneuver. If I focused a little more with my equipment I could do a 25+ base CMB and ~30CMB/~47CMD for grappling, but I opted to shore up my will saves and get some amusing abilities instead.
In a recent game I dropped 130 damage in a round, and I missed once.
As for getting the CMB up...
-BAB +13
-Dex +7
-Brawling armor +2
-Dusty rose prism + Wayfinder +2 untyped
-Pale Green, cracked +1
-Thorny Violet Ioun Stone +2
-Improved Grappling +2
-Greater Grappling +2
-Gauntlets of the Maneuver +2 (not weapons, don't impact your damage)
-Adhesive armor quality +2
That gets you to 35. If you were a brawler you would have another +3 from the class maneuver training ability.
I should note that at this point things start getting shenanigans that make grapple useless or dangerous like rings of Freedom of Movement (steal/sunder maneuver!), the ability to *bamf* into gaseous clouds, teleportation abilities, shapechanging shenanigans, and horrible on-contact abilities. So don't be surprised if your GM starts thumbing their nose at you with vampires, chaos beasts, and savvy wizards.
Then again, a buddy of mine bashed a vampire over the head with a bookshelf that was in the room (fully PFS legal rules/feats) for ~30 damage, then chucked it at him as a touch attack, using his strength instead of dex, for another 40 damage. IMO that wins out.
-edit-
Oh, potion of enlarge is another +2 for 50 gold each fight, AND it lets you grapple larger things. Always a useful purchase... though you're dex based, so you'd actually break even in bonuses but you'd be able to grapple bigger critters.
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Divvox2 wrote: As for getting the CMB up...
-BAB +13
-Dex +7
-Brawling armor +2
-Dusty rose prism + Wayfinder +2 untyped
-Pale Green, cracked +1
-Thorny Violet Ioun Stone +2
-Improved Grappling +2
-Greater Grappling +2
-Gauntlets of the Maneuver +2 (not weapons, don't impact your damage)
-Adhesive armor quality +2
That gets you to 35. If you were a brawler you would have another +3 from the class maneuver training ability.
Be very careful of overlapping bonuses. Cracked Pale Green overlaps Thorny Violet as a competence bonus I believe.
My grapple thread lurking efforts to date has given me the following:
Enhancement: +2 Adhesive, +1-5 3x/day Belt of Superior Maneuvers
Circumstance: +4 Extreme Flexibility, +4 (surprise rd) Gladiator's Sandals
Competence: +1 armbands of the brawler, +2 Anaconda's Coils, +2 Thorny (Violet) normal or flawed, +1 Cracked Pale Green Prism
Sacred: +4 Celestial Obedience (Falayna)
Morale: +1 Flawed Pale Green Prism, +1 Bless
Trait: +2 Heirloom Weapon (YMMV), +1 Bred for War
Insight: +2 Dusty Rose Prism Resonance, +20 True Strike
Luck: +1 Prayer
Size: +1 Enlarge Person
Untyped: +2 dan bong (YMMV), +2 brawler, +2 gauntlets of the skilled maneuver, +1 Unfair Grip, +2 Aid Another
I welcome any corrections/additions. My PFS grappler is still a baby (level 2 Strangler/Slayer X)
Really torn on the remaining levels. I like Slayer for full BAB and better sneak attack progression since I'm using (the nerfed :*( ) Sap Adept en route to Sap Master. I'm not impressed with the slayer talents in a grappling context though and improving martial flexibility instead would really add to the builds versatility.
Something else to consider are things that increase your CMD. Unlike other maneuvers grappling can be countered easier if they can overcome your CMD too. Having a high CMD means you can move on from just grappling to pinning and moving them each round.
Faelyn wrote: I would suggest avoiding the Kraken style feats... Grabbing Style or Even Snapping Turtle Style with Clutch is a much better way to go. Celestial Obeience for Falayna is a very good feat. Also look into the Dan Bong with Brawling enchantment. The rest has pretty much been covered. If you're human, make sure to use the Brawler's human FCB to get more boost to your CMD vs. grappling. With your low strength that's going to penalize your CMD and make it easier for people to escape your grapple. A -2 to CMD really isn't going to hurt that much considering all the other bonuses they're getting. A properly built grappler can handle having a Strength penalty. As shown by one of my friends building a goblin monk who can, RAW, grappled the Tarrasque as early as level 13.
Kraken Style is better than Grabbing Style, considering it adds to the grapple damage and the later feats in the chain let you suffocate your opponent or crush their gear, not to mention he's already going to be negating the Dex penalty from being a level 2 Strangler.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Zamereon wrote: Am I missing any major magic items or feats that would also help me boost my cmb higher? According to the average monster cmd at CR 13, I would need to roll a 9 to succeed. I can think of a few.
Armbands of the Brawler 500gp, +1CMB
Brawler Armor Enchantment +1 equivalent, +2CMB
Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver: 4000gp, +2CMB
Cracked, Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone, 5000gp, +1 all attack rolls
Belt of Dexterity: 4000gp for +2 Dex
Robe of Infinite Twine, 1000gp, because your goal as a Grappler should not be to inflict damage, but to Tie opponents Up.
Now for some Feats and Class Abilities.
There is Weapon Focus Grapple, of course.
Take 2 levels in Cavalier, Order of the Penitent. You get a bonus Teamwork Feat, and the Tactician ability grants that Feat to all allies within 30'. I recommend the Coordinated Maneuvers Feat, which grants a +2 on all Combat Maneuver Checks.
But what you really want is what you'll get at level 2: Expert Captor. Expert Captor lets you Tie Up a Grappled--not Pinned!--opponent, and you don't take the -10 you normally do. So, with Greater Grapple and Expert Captor, you if you begin your round adjacent to your opponent, you can Initiate a Grapple as a Standard Action then Tie him Up as a Move Action. You'll be wanting some strong rope. The best I can come up with that might not be exactly PFS legal is an Adamantine Dwarven Dorn Dergar, which is mostly a 10' chain.
Take 4 levels in Alchemist.
At level 2, grow a Tentacle: +4 on all Grapple Checks.
At level 4, get a King Crab Tumor Familiar: +2 on grapple checks, and you can play a really neat defensive trick if you are interested.
At level 1, you get Mutagens. A Dex Mutagen will give you a +4 Dex, a +2 Natural Armor Bonus (and -2 Wisdom) for 10 minutes which will stack with a Belt of Dexterity.
Hey where does it say in the rules that an extra limb/tentacle will give you a +4 to grapple. I have looked but could not find anything relating to this, unless it is a house rule that you use.
I like the idea of growing extra limbs and i am going to try and convince my DM that if I have four arms, than i can use 2 two handed weapons. Both for fun and badass points.
What about Mazmezz's Demonic Obedience? You perform the world's worst acupuncture and not only do you get the same bonuses that Falayna gives you, you can cast Vermin Shape II and shapeshift into a form with the grab ability, which allows you to initiate a grapple as a free action! Not only that, but the spell can also allow you to have the blood drain ability which does Constitution damage at the end of a grapple!
Horas Ebonfeather wrote: Hey where does it say in the rules that an extra limb/tentacle will give you a +4 to grapple. I have looked but could not find anything relating to this, unless it is a house rule that you use. No, it's not a house rule at all. I'm happy to show you where I found it.
Alchemist, Discoveries, Tentacle wrote: he can use it to make a tentacle attack (1d4 damage for a Medium alchemist, 1d3 damage for a Small one) with the grab ability. Alchemist, Discoveries, Tentacle
Tentacles have the Grab Ability.
Universal Monster Rules, Grab wrote: Creatures with the grab special attack receive a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks made to start and maintain a grapple. Universal Monster Rules, Grab
d20pfsrd.com is very reliable, but it's not official. I prefer it because it is easy to browse. Once I find what I'm looking for there, I then look for it on the official PRDs to really quote chapter and verse.
Tentacle
Grab
Horas Ebonfeather wrote: I like the idea of growing extra limbs and i am going to try and convince my DM that if I have four arms, than i can use 2 two handed weapons. Both for fun and badass points. You would need your GM to houserule in your favor. There have been official rulings on this matter. Using a 2 handed weapon in 2 hands occupies 2 hands worth of the Action Economy. As per the Rules as Written, Vestigial Arm won't give you the ability to have extra actions. A Vestigial Arm would allow you to use a 2 handed weapon in 2 hands and a Shield in the other, and it would let you get the AC Benefit of the Shield, but it wouldn't let you Shield Bash with it. A similar thing that would also not be allowed is if you wore Armor Spikes. You can't Attack with a Greatsword and then make an off-hand attack with Armor Spikes.
You could do something like this with Cleave or Great Cleave. Let's say you were wearing Armor Spikes and were wielding a Lucerne Hammmer, a Reach Weapon. Great Cleaving doesn't demand you use the same weapon against every opponent. As long as your opponents were adjacent to each other, you could Great Cleave opponents who were either 5' or 10' away from you, some with your Armor Spikes, some with your Reach Pole Arm. Or if you were fighting Soviet Union Style: with a Warhammer and a Sickle in your off-hand, and you were fighting a mixed group of Skeletons and Zombies, you could Great Cleave, doing Bludgeoning Damage against the Skeletons with your 'hammer and Slashing Damage against the Zombies with your Sickle.
3 levels in Fighter with the Phalanx Soldier Archetype would let you use a Pole Arm in 1 hand and a Shield in the other.
The Thunder and Fang Feat lets you use and Earthbreaker in 1 hand and a Klar (a shield) in the other.
Going off the Official Reservation, if you took 5 levels in Aegis, a Psionic Class, you cold grow another pair of fully-functional arms. If your GM allowed you to play a Kasatha, a Thri-Kreen, or a 4 armed Sahaugin, you would also have 4 fully-functional arms your GM might let you dual-wield Greatswords with, but if minmaxing is your goal, you would be better off wielding 4 weapons, or maybe 2 Gythkas (a double weapon) in the case of the Thri Kreen.
Meanwhile, even if this were allowed, if you are 2-weapon fighting and the off-hand weapon is not Light, you take a -4 on both attacks, assuming you have the 2 weapon fighting Feat. There is the 2 Weapon fighter Archetype which lets you wield a 1 handed weapon in your off hand as if it were a Light Weapon. There is also the 3.5 Feat Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, which does the same thing. I believe Thunder and Fang has been FAQ'd so that you couldn't combine Thunder and Fang and the 2 Weapon Fighter Archetype Ability to dual-wield Earthbreakers. There is a 3.0 Feat, Monkey Grip, which lets you wield a 2 handed weapon in 1 hand with extra penalties.
Find a way to get a 3rd level King Crab familiar (either with 3 levels in Eldritch Guardian, or a dip in any class and Boon Companion, or Iron Will + Familiar Bond + improved Familiar Bond) with Mauler archetype. It gives you a flat +2 CMB to grapple. Also, it has 2 attacks with grab and constrict, and can help you by giving another +2 through Aid Another: it's a +4 without any further investment.
Then, if you took at least 2 levels in Eldritch Guardian, or if you buy a ring of Tactical Precision, you can take Coordinated Maneuver for another +2. With Brutal Grappler you can both deal damage while aiding each other, and the Crab's grab + constrict is not a bad extra damage.
Just make sure to call it Kingler ;)
Gray Warden wrote: Find a way to get a 3rd level King Crab familiar (either with 3 levels in Eldritch Guardian, or a dip in any class and Boon Companion, or Iron Will + Familiar Bond + improved Familiar Bond) with Mauler archetype. It gives you a flat +2 CMB to grapple. Also, it has 2 attacks with grab and constrict, and can help you by giving another +2 through Aid Another: it's a +4 without any further investment.
Then, if you took at least 2 levels in Eldritch Guardian, or if you buy a ring of Tactical Precision, you can take Coordinated Maneuver for another +2. With Brutal Grappler you can both deal damage while aiding each other, and the Crab's grab + constrict is not a bad extra damage.
Just make sure to call it Kingler ;)
To that I'd recommend a 2 level dip in Alchemist to make that Familiar a Tumor Familiar. Crabs are Aquatic creatures, and it can be very inconvenient to carry around an aquatic familiar. Will you carry a fishtank to go with it? There are magic items, if you can afford them. But if your Crab Familiar were a Tumor, that would answer the question of how you keep it. It lives inside your body until it explodes into action (gross!)!
Since there is a Feat that lets you take Alchemal Discoveries, iIrc, Extra Discovery, you can get a Tentacle and a Crab Familiar and only have to dip 2 levels. Then you can get a Tentacle, too.
Gray Warden wrote: Then, if you took at least 2 levels in Eldritch Guardian, or if you buy a ring of Tactical Precision, you can take Coordinated Maneuver for another +2. With Brutal Grappler you can both deal damage while aiding each other, and the Crab's grab + constrict is not a bad extra damage. Yeah! With only 2 levels in Fighter, Eldritch Guardian, your Famliar automatically gains all your Combat Feats.
Levels in Familiar-having Classes Stack for your Familiar's level, so you can still get your Level 5 Familiar Ability, which is pretty awesome in the case of Mauler Familiars.
Still, I am quite fond of the Protector Familiar Archetype. They give you like a +2 AC, and at level 5 they protect you with Shield Other, and the Tumor Familiar's Fast Healing 5 really comes in handy then. And the Crab will still give you your +2 on Grapple Checks.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: To that I'd recommend a 2 level dip in Alchemist to make that Familiar a Tumor Familiar. Crabs are Aquatic creatures, and it can be very inconvenient to carry around an aquatic familiar. Will you carry a fishtank to go with it? There are magic items, if you can afford them. But if your Crab Familiar were a Tumor, that would answer the question of how you keep it. It lives inside your body until it explodes into action (gross!)!
Water dependency (Ex) wrote: Crabs can survive out of the water for 1 hour per point of Constitution. Beyond this limit, a crab runs the risk of suffocation, as if it were drowning. That is, the King Crab can survive out of water for up to 12 hours. Then you just need some mundane small water tank to make it rest. If someone in the party has Create Water, you don't even need to carry the water.
Mauler is necessary to be able to attack without provoking AoO, flank and actually deal damage. Protector not only does not help on this side, but makes the familiar even more fragile because removes Improved Evasion.
Protector is a very good archetype, but not if you want to actually use the familiar in combat.
Gray Warden wrote: Water dependency wrote: Crabs can survive out of the water for 1 hour per point of Constitution. Beyond this limit, a crab runs the risk of suffocation, as if it were drowning. That is, the King Crab can survive out of water for up to 12 hours. Then you just need some mundane small water tank to make it rest. If someone in the party has Create Water, you don't even need to carry the water. I agree. I consider the idea of carrying some kind of saltwater fishtank to be prohibitively inconvenient to an adventurer's lifestyle, and I think it invites your GM to torture you. I've been tortured by GMs via similar things before. A magic item, such as putting your fish tank in a Bag of Holding--I think there is a problem with that--Hostelling Armor; I think there is some kind of magic Familiar satchel should work, but it might be prohibitively expensive, and the GM may just say that such a magic item is unavailable.
But it is possible in some gaming situations that none of the problems I am bringing up exist.
You and I are offering real alternatives, here.
Gray Warden wrote: Protector not only does not help on this side, but makes the familiar even more fragile because removes Improved Evasion.
Protector is a very good archetype, but not if you want to actually use the familiar in combat.
In my experience as a player, Familiars, Mounts, Animal Companions, Cohorts, and Henchmen mainly exist to give the GM something to kill.
I wrote: You keep killing all my Animals and Henchmen! my GM wrote: Scott, why do you think I keep giving them to you? While everything you said about Mauler vs. Protector Familiars is true, I still have been eschewing character builds that use such things for years. The main reason I am tempted to have a Familiar is to get the Grappling Bonus. I like the idea that the Tumor Familiar usually exists as part of the character's body: it can't wander off and get killed that way, and I've seen that happen a lot. And the Shield Other feature offers to effectively double the character's hit points and is offset by that lovely Fast Healing 5.
But again, here I am offering advice from my own personal experience of gaming. If the readers' experiences assure them no such disasters need be feared, then go forth and God bless.
Again, you and I are offering real alternatives, here.
Does anyone know of any good traits that might help with increasing cmb or cmd.
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