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I'm wanting to see which would be better for someone such as my dagger-happy Ides of March character (inspired by Julius Caesar and Brutus). I'm wanting him to be a borderline assassin, maybe messing with poisons. Seeing how I have yet to play a stealthy-type before (always went with tank-like builds), I thought I could use the advice. Thanks in advance!
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I'm leaning towards Dex base. The way I have him ultimately figured in terms of Abilities is 12 in all except for Dex, with 18.
Any potential traits you can see that might be of the best assistance to making his dagger really count? I don't really plan on him using any other type of weapon, if I can help it.
What it really comes down to is do you want to be a more powerful at combat, or more versatile out of combat. Slayers get full BAB, martial weapons and both light and medium armor. If you are not going to be using martial weapons or wearing medium armor that a slayer may not be the best choice. Since you are focusing on daggers the unchained rogue is probably better.
Take the Knife Master archetype for the d8 sneak attack. Skill focus stealth will allow you to get Hellcat Stealth after 6th level. For traits the best thing you can do is pick up one that improves your Will save.
Unchained Rogue gets the ability to use Dexterity for attack and damage with some weapons, making them better for melee combatants who want to use Dexterity. On the other hand, Rogues have less attacks and a far lower attack bonus than Slayers on average. Slayers are also more forgiving when Sneak Attack won't work since their Studied Target ability grants a flat damage bonus.
Rogues are better skill monkeys and Slayers are better combatants - that said, if you want a Dex-based character the Unchained Rogue is probably better.
Also, if you plan on getting into melee, I cannot stress the importance of higher CON. 14 at the very least for Rogues, whose smaller HD and weaker armor proficiencies make them pretty squishy. It might even be worth taking Toughness and using your Favored Class Bonus on health.
Pharasma devotion is +2 to hit for one feat.
Rogue. Dex to damage and debilitating injury are way better bonuses than study target. The AC debuff of debilitating injury will effectively put you above full BAB and the attack penalty greatly helps your survival.
If you want to be stealthy, consider being a halfling. +4 stealth for being small is awesome and the rest of the halfling bonuses are great, too (+2 perception, +1 attack/AC, +1 saves, +2 saves vs fear).
Also, LuniasM is correct about defense. Rogues don't have much of it. See if you can fit in stuff like Iron Will/Great Fortitude and maybe get Shield as an SLA via Major Magic.
From a mechanical point of view I will say slayer, but what else you want to do besides fight with daggers also matters. Also what is your point buy or does your group roll for stats?
IMO the rogue is a strong combatant when Sneak Attack is an option. But without it the rogue is near worthless.
Debilitating injury is what puts the rogue on par with other martial characters, but it suffers of not working until you've hit the enemy with a sneak attack.
At level 10 the URogue gets to apply a -6 penalty to eenemy attack rolls and AC. At level 10 the slayer gets a +3 to attack and damage as a swift action, has 2 more BAB, which also happens to grant an extra attack.
So, the Slayer has a pretty much always available +5 to hit (2 BAB + 3 studied target) versus the Rogue's +6 to hit once they get a sneak attack in. Ad that's the problem, to do good in combat you have to have already hit with a Sneak Attack.
Slayer is going to be better at combat, but wont have as much utility as the rogue.
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IMO the rogue is a strong combatant when Sneak Attack is an option. But without it the rogue is near worthless.
Debilitating injury is what puts the rogue on par with other martial characters, but it suffers of not working until you've hit the enemy with a sneak attack.
At level 10 the URogue gets to apply a -6 penalty to eenemy attack rolls and AC. At level 10 the slayer gets a +3 to attack and damage as a swift action, has 2 more BAB, which also happens to grant an extra attack.
So, the Slayer has a pretty much always available +5 to hit (2 BAB + 3 studied target) versus the Rogue's +6 to hit once they get a sneak attack in. Ad that's the problem, to do good in combat you have to have already hit with a Sneak Attack.
Slayer is going to be better at combat, but wont have as much utility as the rogue.
It is trivial to always get sneak attack (as long as you aren't fighting oozes or elementals). Shatter Defenses, Two Weapon Feint, Circling Mongoose, and Weapon and Shield Weapon Tricks make it very easy to have a self-reliant method of enabling sneak attacks without needing a flank partner.
Yes the slayer is better against amorphous enemies, but against most of the possible opponents out there, a Slayer and Urogue have equal combat ability. It's just more straightforward for a slayer, because they don't need to pursue a method of self-generating sneak attacks.
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IMO the rogue is a strong combatant when Sneak Attack is an option. But without it the rogue is near worthless.
Debilitating injury is what puts the rogue on par with other martial characters, but it suffers of not working until you've hit the enemy with a sneak attack.
At level 10 the URogue gets to apply a -6 penalty to eenemy attack rolls and AC. At level 10 the slayer gets a +3 to attack and damage as a swift action, has 2 more BAB, which also happens to grant an extra attack.
So, the Slayer has a pretty much always available +5 to hit (2 BAB + 3 studied target) versus the Rogue's +6 to hit once they get a sneak attack in. Ad that's the problem, to do good in combat you have to have already hit with a Sneak Attack.
Slayer is going to be better at combat, but wont have as much utility as the rogue.
It is trivial to always get sneak attack (as long as you aren't fighting oozes or elementals). Shatter Defenses, Two Weapon Feint, Circling Mongoose, and Weapon and Shield Weapon Tricks make it very easy to have a self-reliant method of enabling sneak attacks without needing a flank partner.
Yes the slayer is better against amorphous enemies, but against most of the possible opponents out there, a Slayer and Urogue have equal combat ability. It's just more straightforward for a slayer, because they don't need to pursue a method of self-generating sneak attacks.
Really? You call those "trivial"?
Circling Mongoose requires a whopping 4 feats. Tossing in Canny Tumble brings that up to 5.
Getting constant denied dex with Two weapon Feint(as opposed to a single attack only) requires Greater Feign. That is 5 feats total.
Shatter Defenses requires 3 feats and can't happen until level 8 at a minimum (if you hold off on picking up Combat Trick). It also costs 3 feats, two of which you generally wouldn't pick up otherwise and are basically feat taxes. Plus there is that whole needing to spend actions to intimidate a target or get help from a caster in order to do your job. You can get around this by finding a way to get free intimidate checks, but guess what this usually costs. Hint: it rhymes with "feats", and it will probably cost you more than one (the only one I can think of off the top of my head is Corragun Smash, which is two feats and a 13 in a dump stat...yay?).
I don't know what you are referring to with the weapon and shield trick thing. The only stuff I can find about shield tricks doesn't help a rogue in any relevant way.
A non-human Rogue can eat up every feat from level 1 to level 7 and one of their talents just to come online at level 8 with one of these tricks. That is essentially 7 levels of no feats. It's actually pretty damning that all of the ways you can think of for making sneak attack happen reliably require dedicating your character to it for most of a typical character's career. With the Slayer this isn't a problem. If someone wants their Slayer PC to have stealth synergy or something, they don't have to wait until level 9 or suffer for another two levels. They can just take the feat, since they don't need a 5 feat tax to function reliably. Just Power Attack and some feats picked up from their Slayer talents.
It is trivial to always get sneak attack (as long as you aren't fighting oozes or elementals). Shatter Defenses, Two Weapon Feint, Circling Mongoose, and Weapon and Shield Weapon Tricks make it very easy to have a self-reliant method of enabling sneak attacks without needing a flank partner.
Yes the slayer is better against amorphous enemies, but against most of the possible opponents out there, a Slayer and Urogue have equal combat ability. It's just more straightforward for a slayer, because they don't need to pursue a method of self-generating sneak attacks.
See Snowblind's rebuttal as I agree with him.
It's possible to become self reliant enough to create Sneak Attacks, but it requires a lot of your characters ability to build themselves and leaves little room for much else. It also makes it incredibly difficult to be successful at it in low levels.
And there is still the fact that you have to actually hit them in the first place to apply Debilitating Strike, though most of the ways that help ensure sneak attack also help to hit.