I'm new to GMing for PFSP, and have a question about gear purchasing.
The guide to society play lists the 'always available items' assuming you are in a town of 5,000+ population.
In The Emerald Spire Super Dungeon, Fort Inevitable does not meet this population. Other than items available on the chronicle sheets, what else can the PCs buy in the town? Where do i find this rule?
Thanks,
Spahrep
Ok, fair enough, i forgot that the PC's aren't necessarily the same players session to session. I'm still getting used to this, im playing with a regular weekly group, so it seems to me like there is no 'between session' time :P
TY for the answer, makes life easier, and the players will like this answer.
-- Spahrep
It does seem kind of odd though that now i have PCs who are going to be level 2 with fame of 4, in a town of 900, that has various shops in it, and PC's can't buy lets say rations. Or does it mean they cant buy it 'permanently' and carry to next session?
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It does seem kind of odd though that now i have PCs who are going to be level 2 with fame of 4, in a town of 900, that has various shops in it, and PC's can't buy lets say rations. Or does it mean they cant buy it 'permanently' and carry to next session?
Rations are mundane items, which are both always available and below the towns purchase limit , so they can be bought any time the pcs walk into town.
With one or two exceptions i can think of where the scenario gives you a bonus for being stuck in the middle of nowhere between parts 1 and 2, in between sessions you're whereever you want to be for as long as you want to be, so the pathfinder with 4 fame can finish level 4 of the dungeon, still pop back into absolom and buy an adamantine sword and then do level 5 of the dungeon just as fast as everyone else.
Just to confirm, where is this rule about mundane?
I see in the PathfinderSocietyRoleplayingGuildGuide (pg24) that mundane items are listed under 'always available' and that has the stipulation of a town of 5K+ if you are not between sessions.
Sorry for all the confusion, i just want to make sure I give the right info to the players.
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I see in the PathfinderSocietyRoleplayingGuildGuide (pg24) that mundane items are listed under 'always available' and that has the stipulation of a town of 5K+ if you are not between sessions.
This is true, if not in a town (which I might suggest means a sufficiently large town) players may not be able to buy any items, though this varies by scenario. If the scenario doesn't say, the GM can rule.
It doesn't matter for this purpose whether the item is mundane or not (nor if it's always available or not) though the GM could well take these into account when deciding whether the item can be found.
A player can in most other cases pay 5 PP, or less with certain boons, for his faction to get him access regardless.
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Just to confirm, where is this rule about mundane?
I see in the PathfinderSocietyRoleplayingGuildGuide (pg24) that mundane items are listed under 'always available' and that has the stipulation of a town of 5K+ if you are not between sessions.
Sorry for all the confusion, i just want to make sure I give the right info to the players.
You may always purchase the following items or
equipment so long as you’re in an appropriately sizedsettlement (see above).
For the sake of ease of play in Pathfinder Society
Organized Play, players may always buy gear, spells and
so on so long as their characters are in a town of more
than 5,000 residents.
Which just means that below 5,000 people the +1 adamantine greatsword isn't available, and at 5k residents or more you can ignore the towns limits because there's a pathfinder lodge you can buy from. You can still buy beef jerkey off the peasants any time there's three houses leaning against each other :)
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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To clarify: there are two separate rule systems happening here.
1) The "Town" system from Gamemastery Guide which describes what you might find in any particular town based on population.
2) The PFS system which decides what you can buy in general, based on your Fame.
You can only buy stuff that's allowed by both systems, but since between scenarios you can go wherever you want offscreen, #1 is often not a problem.
Ok... I think im getting the 'always available' concept.
The always available is available because you have pathfinder contacts / lodge that will sell those to you, if you have proper fame.
However... if you have less than the required fame and/or you are in a town that is too small to have a lodge, you will go to the rules for items in towns in the game mastery guide.
The guide defines towns as:
Thorp < 20
Hamlet 21–60
Village 61–200
Small town 201–2,000
Large town 2,001–5,000
So in a town of 900, we have a 'small town'.
The players don't have access to a lodge as its <5K so the always available items due to the lodge don't come in play (and even if they did, they dont have enough fame).
Now we look at the rules for small town.
Base value (1,000 gp): This section lists the community's base value for available magic items in gp. There is a 75% chance that any item of this value or lower can be found for sale in the community with little effort.
Medium and Minor magic items (3d4/1d6 items): This line lists the number of magic items above a settlement's base value that are available for purchase. In some city stat blocks, the actual items are listed in parentheses after the die range of items available—in this case, you can use these pre-rolled resources when the PCs first visit the city as the magic items available for sale on that visit. If the PCs return to that city at a later date, you can roll up new items as you see fit.
Seems reasonable, but then, in the society play guide, at the end of ‘Always Available’ it says…
Beyond the gear noted above, your character is restricted to purchasing additional items from his accumulated Chronicle sheets, or by capitalizing on his fame. Weapons, armor, equipment, magic items and so on that are outside of these lists are not available for purchase at any time.
I’m not seeing any information explicitly referring to non-magical / mundane items, for towns in the Game Mastery Guide. One could assume then that it’s GM discretion, maybe this town of 900 has a place where you can buy ‘Agile Breastplate’ from the UE, maybe not.
I thank you guys very much for the help, but it looks like there just isn’t a way for <5 fame characters in a town with < 5K, by rules as written, to purchase equipment not on the chronicle sheet while in the middle of a session.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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No, you're mixing things again.
1 - There are three possible reasons why you are allowed to buy something:
1A) It's listed as "always available", meaning anyone can buy it.
1B) You have sufficient Fame
1C) It's on one of your chronicle sheets.
If one of those three is true then you can buy the item. They're three independent reasons why you may be allowed to buy a particular item at all.
But it also has to be for sale.
2) That's the second thing: is something available in this town? That depends on the size of the town. Bigger towns carry more expensive stuff.
Since between scenarios an indefinite amount of time passes and you can move from town to town, condition #2 only applies to shopping in the middle of a game. After the game you can go to Absalom and buy anything for which you meet one of the requirements 1A, 1B or 1C.
No, you're mixing things again.
1 - There are three possible reasons why you are allowed to buy something:
1A) It's listed as "always available", meaning anyone can buy it.
1B) You have sufficient Fame
1C) It's on one of your chronicle sheets.If one of those three is true then you can buy the item. They're three independent reasons why you may be allowed to buy a particular item at all.
But it also has to be for sale.
2) That's the second thing: is something available in this town? That depends on the size of the town. Bigger towns carry more expensive stuff.
Since between scenarios an indefinite amount of time passes and you can move from town to town, condition #2 only applies to shopping in the middle of a game. After the game you can go to Absalom and buy anything for which you meet one of the requirements 1A, 1B or 1C.
Right, so it is mid senario, 3 fame points, town of 900. They can not buy anything, not even extra rations:
1a) - Can not do, town less than 5K population
1b) - 3 fame has max cost of 0gc.
1c) - first adventure, nothing on chronicle sheet.
Additionally the town size only relates to magic items from what i see in the GM guide.
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OK, some common sense here:
Fort Inevitable is a fully functioning town. It has a farming community to supply food, trade shops, and a sizable military garrison. There are adventurers seeking treasure in the River Kingdoms and a steady stream of crusaders headed to the Worldwound. The support infrastructure is there. If you need food, basic clothing, or camping supplies they will be available. If you need something mundane (non-magical) but fairly unusual - say an astrolabe - it's reasonable to assume that it will take several days or weeks to be made (it's probably faster to travel to a bigger city).
Magical items are subject to the town size limits as Spahrep quoted above. Even if you have the fame to buy the item the town may not have it. Even if it's on the "always available" list (which is simply a list of items you don't need fame to buy, not a list of what dirt-farmer Bill always has for sale). Ditto for expensive and rare mundane items. The GM can decide how this will function.
Fort Inevitable has a large Hellknight garrison and supplies crusaders headed to the Worldwound. For that reason I've made the decision in my ongoing PFS Emerald Spire campaign that Fort Inevitable has everything in the "always available" list for sale. It's perfectly reasonable for the town smiths to be selling suits of armor - even +1 armor of special materials - given the town's raison d'etre.
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The trouble is, "common sense" includes a lot of GM interpretation - deciding that something is unusual or will take time to get encourages table variation. For something as basic as gear purchase, this needs to be clarified.
First, the Gamemastery Guide is not listed under Additional Resources, and so those rules should not be used in PFS at all. Except...the scenario itself has the following text on Fort Inevitable:
Base Value 1,300 gp; Purchase Limit 7,500 gp; Spellcasting 4th
Minor Items 3d4; Medium Items 1d6; Major Items —
This stat block refers to the settlement rules in the GMG, so presumably we have to use them for Fort Inevitable? How do the rules interface with PFS? Note that using the GMG rules means that the raise dead spell is not available in Fort Inevitable, which has a spellcasting cap of 4th level.
If we are expected to use the GMG settlement rules to adjudicate this, Additional Resources or the GM section of the Guide should clarify that. Otherwise, RAW, I think the OP is correct - you cannot buy rations in a town of less than 5,000 people. (Not that I've ever run it that way... but the rule should be clarified.)
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This stat block refers to the settlement rules in the GMG, so presumably we have to use them for Fort Inevitable? How do the rules interface with PFS? Note that using the GMG rules means that the raise dead spell is not available in Fort Inevitable, which has a spellcasting cap of 4th level.
You can drag their body to somewhere with 5k people, or there is a 5 pp out of coverage zone surcharge
Add +5 to this cost if this benefit is purchased outside of a
settlement of 5,000 residents or more
If outside of a town, PCs may be restricted from buying anything, though this varies by scenario.
given that and the specific listing of a settlement size, seems to be telling you to use the settlement rules with the 5k exception.
The trouble is, "common sense" includes a lot of GM interpretation - deciding that something is unusual or will take time to get encourages table variation. For something as basic as gear purchase, this needs to be clarified.
First, the Gamemastery Guide is not listed under Additional Resources, and so those rules should not be used in PFS at all. Except...the scenario itself has the following text on Fort Inevitable:
Base Value 1,300 gp; Purchase Limit 7,500 gp; Spellcasting 4th
Minor Items 3d4; Medium Items 1d6; Major Items —This stat block refers to the settlement rules in the GMG, so presumably we have to use them for Fort Inevitable? How do the rules interface with PFS? Note that using the GMG rules means that the raise dead spell is not available in Fort Inevitable, which has a spellcasting cap of 4th level.
If we are expected to use the GMG settlement rules to adjudicate this, Additional Resources or the GM section of the Guide should clarify that. Otherwise, RAW, I think the OP is correct - you cannot buy rations in a town of less than 5,000 people. (Not that I've ever run it that way... but the rule should be clarified.)
Thanks LampLighter, i didnt realize that GM wasn't under additional resources :\
I'm not planning on running it that way either, but I really like trying to play RAW, especially if I plan on GMing for a group at a conference or a store. Do these forums get looked at by paizo staff or is there a way to bring this up for official clarification?
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The question of "is the GameMastery Guide legal for play" comes up every now and then. It's not a straightforward yes/no question and is occasionally contentious. The GMG does not appear in Additional Resources but the Additional Resources page leads off with these sentences:
Below is a specific list of Paizo products and the equipment, traits, deities, spells, feats, and classes contained within that are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play. While most of the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook is legal for play (with some feat and spell exceptions), these additional resources give you new character options. If a product does not appear on this list, then it is not considered legal for play.
The text that trips people up is "new character options." It's pretty obvious that your player character can't buy drugs from the GMG since it's not in AR. But what does that mean for the other side of the screen (Game Masters)?
Most of what's in the GMG is for GMs. If you want to run a haunt properly you pretty much have to use the GMG. Want to know what happens if the 9th level cleric decides to plane shift the party to the positive energy plane? GMG.
So there's nothing barring a GM from using the GMG. In fact it's a good thing to use. Without it every GM would have to make up their own interpretation for what happens if a player drinks too much. Or, in this case, what items a particular town has to offer.