Phantoms with Chill Touch

[darth_borehd]

If a 3rd level spiritualist casts Chill Touch and has his phantom deliver it, how many touch attacks can the phantom make?

Because the phantom has two natural slam attacks, does that mean it can deliver two Chill Touch attacks as an immediate action?

[Weirdo]

Since the phantom cannot hold charges, I think it would be limited to delivering one touch with the spell.

The phantom cannot choose to deliver a touch with a slam at all, since that normally requires that you be holding a charge.

Touch Spells in Combat wrote:

Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren't considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack normally doesn't provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack. If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge.

[Rogar Stonebow]

Chill touch doesn't require you to hold a charge in the general sense. Touch get a finite number of attacks based on level.

[Wonderstell]

Regardless if the phantom gets more uses of chill touch or not, it is a Melee Touch Attack, which wouldn't let the phantom make a fullround-action of Chill Touch as they both are specific attack actions. The phantom could however hit once as an immediate action and then hit another time with his standard action.

But. I believe you hold charges with Chill Touch, so it is limited to one attack as an immediate when you cast the spell. (A phantom cannot hold charges, as written in the description of "Deliver Touch Spells (SU)"

[Saldiven]

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Chill touch doesn't require you to hold a charge in the general sense. Touch get a finite number of attacks based on level.

If you couldn't hold charges with Chill Touch, you'd have to deliver all of the attacks on the round within which the spell was cast. Chill Touch just has the additional ability to continue using the effect beyond the first touch based upon level. It still allows you to cast the spell one round, and then make attacks with it in subsequent rounds, limited by duration, just like any other touch spell having the charge held.

[darth_borehd]

So is the phantom delivering the Chill Touch like using Spectral Hand in that it uses the spiritualists BAB to determine how many touch attacks can be delivered?

[Weirdo]

I don't see how you're drawing that conclusion. Could you explain?

Rogar Stonebow wrote:

Chill touch doesn't require you to hold a charge in the general sense. Touch get a finite number of attacks based on level.

This has been clarified.

FAQ wrote:

Touch Spells: If a spell allows multiple touches, are you considered to be holding the charge until all charges are expended?

Yes.

[Casual Viking]

darth_borehd wrote:

So is the phantom delivering the Chill Touch like using Spectral Hand in that it uses the spiritualists BAB to determine how many touch attacks can be delivered?

No, the phantoms deliver touch spells ability is very clear. Immediate action, one attack, after which any held charge is lost.

[darth_borehd]

Casual Viking wrote:

darth_borehd wrote:

So is the phantom delivering the Chill Touch like using Spectral Hand in that it uses the spiritualists BAB to determine how many touch attacks can be delivered?

No, the phantoms deliver touch spells ability is very clear. Immediate action, one attack, after which any held charge is lost.

Where does it say "one attack"? That's the part I'm not clear on. If they have two natural attacks, and the spiritualist is high enough level for two attacks or more, can the phantom deliver two attacks as an immediate action?

[Casual Viking]

darth_borehd wrote:

Casual Viking wrote:

darth_borehd wrote:

So is the phantom delivering the Chill Touch like using Spectral Hand in that it uses the spiritualists BAB to determine how many touch attacks can be delivered?

No, the phantoms deliver touch spells ability is very clear. Immediate action, one attack, after which any held charge is lost.

Where does it say "one attack"? That's the part I'm not clear on. If they have two natural attacks, and the spiritualist is high enough level for two attacks or more, can the phantom deliver two attacks as an immediate action?

not only does the ability consistently use the singular, the one exception allowed does not apply to Chill Touch. If the Phantom is allowed multiple touch attacks with Chill Touch, why not multiple attempts with Vampiric Touch? Until it discharges, there's no difference between the two.

[Weirdo]

Delivering more than one touch requires the phantom to hold the charge. So does delivering a touch through a natural weapon attack or unarmed strike.

The phantom cannot hold the charge for a touch spell, so it cannot deliver more than one touch or use its natural weapons to deliver the charge.

[Mindfever]

This may be a dead topic, but according to RAW the Phantom may deliver a touch attack as an immediate action. The immediate action happens in the swift action time frame which happens in the free action time frame, with the restriction that you may only take one swift action per turn and if you take an immediate action you cannot take a swift action on your next turn and must wait until after your turn to make another immediate action.

That means that a Phantom can deliver a touch attack and still make a full-round attack.

Also, if a spell allows you to touch up to 6 targets, the Phantom can do that as well as an immediate action if all of the targets are within melee range.