I am having difficulty conceptualizing why Giant Form I is a 7th level spell and yet Form of the Dragon I and Beast Shape IV are only 6th.
Why is going from a medium humanoid to large humanoid more difficult than going from medium humanoid to large magical beast or to medium dragon?
Any thoughts out there?
I am having difficulty conceptualizing why Giant Form I is a 7th level spell and yet Form of the Dragon I and Beast Shape IV are only 6th.
Why is going from a medium humanoid to large humanoid more difficult than going from medium humanoid to large magical beast or to medium dragon?
Any thoughts out there?
It allows you to take advantage of all your equipment. Other shapes meld your gear into the form so you lose a lot of their benefits.
In 3.5 most of the shapes that caused problems (aka made your caster better than your fighter) were humanoids.
Both are valid points from a balance standpoint, but don't help me much with conceptualizing why Giant Form spells are such a comparative high level. Heck with Undead Anatomy II you can be an undead giant with a 5th level spell. If they thought regeneration was too powerful they could have held off granting it until Giant Form II.
Both are valid points from a balance standpoint, but don't help me much with conceptualizing why Giant Form spells are such a comparative high level. Heck with Undead Anatomy II you can be an undead giant with a 5th level spell. If they thought regeneration was too powerful they could have held off granting it until Giant Form II.
1) You are talking about someone else's sandbox. Occasionally you will find things that rub you the wrong way. Or don't make sense to you. Whether or not it makes sense to you is fairly irrelevant, it did make sense to them for whatever reason. Which leads to the next point...
2) That is what house rules are for.
(Also this isn't actually a rules question, probably more appropriate for General or Advice.)
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Sir,
There are just some spells from the 3.5 era that just don't fit or the people who translated the spell in to Pathfinder just put it to high on the list.
There are quite a few spells that are just to high for use. (Some are to low such as haste)
I use house rules for my home game to correct to what I think is in error.
Not really a rules question. Flagged to be moved to...general discussion maybe? The rules themselves are very clear.
Not all spells are equal. There is even rules text under designing new spells that identifies "benchmark spells", or spells that are considered the most powerful for their level (invisibility for example). If you want to houserule it otherwise feel free, I don't think having it as a 6th level spell would be game breaking.
My guess would be exactly the worn gear ability.
Being able to use all of your equipment while retaining the entire benefits of the spell is worth more then just a form change. Form of the Dragon swaps your set of physical abilities for another, but you lose use of your equipment...a substantial penalty that has to be made up by other benefits of the spell.
No such handicap with Giant Form.
Note that the bonuses from the two spells FOrm of the Dragon II and Giant Form I are almost identical. Form I is a Medium dragon, which among other things means, No Reach for standard attacks.
Otherwise, the benefits of the two spells are almost identical. Dragon Form does allow flight and a movement mode, but Giant Form allows worn gear and straight Reach on attacks.
I personally think Giant Form I and Dragon Form II are about as close to balanced as two shape altering spells can be.
==Aelryinth
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Keep in mind that Giant Form 1 allows you to continue to cast spells without a problem while Form of the Dragon may cause you to lose acces to foci and spell component pouch and the other spells may prevent you from casting at all. Retaining casting ability while still gaining the protection of the form is a giant advantage (heh)
Another spell to compare it to is the Clerical Righteous Might.
The difference is two spell levels and for those one gains
+2 Str
+2 AC
Low-light vision
x10 duration
Natural Attacks (usually Slams, but could be claw claw bite if needed).
As well as a choice between some potentially useful Resistances, Regeneration (the spell heals for a total of 50hp per CL!) and some other nifty stuff.
One does lose the DR but personally that Regeneration seems so much better.
Basically Giant Form is an better Righteous Might lasts long enough for several combats as well as heals the user between each (at the price of looking like a Troll), which can double as a quickened Resist Energy + Righteous Might in a pinch.
Not that bad in my opinion.
Huh. Never really thought about it, but Giant form is an arcane healing spell that way, and plenty strong.
===Aelryinth
Giant form I and form of the dragon II are the same level, and grant similar benefits. Both give you +6 Strength and make you Large. Dragons gets a little more AC and some natural weapons. Giants get a wider menu of special abilities, and can benefit from worn armor.
I don't think spellcasting matters one way or the other. Since dragons can cast spells, spellcasters polymorphed into dragons can still cast spells.
Giant form I is a higher level spell than form of the dragon I because it has better benefits. It makes you Large, stronger, allows you to wear armor, and has a much bigger menu of special abilities than the handful of abilities form of the dragon I grants.
Both are valid points from a balance standpoint, but don't help me much with conceptualizing why Giant Form spells are such a comparative high level. Heck with Undead Anatomy II you can be an undead giant with a 5th level spell. If they thought regeneration was too powerful they could have held off granting it until Giant Form II.
Undead Anatomy has other balancing factors, such as giving you negative energy affinity, thus making it difficult to heal in that form, and of course the way that NPCs may react to an apparent undead monster.