I am working on building an oradin (oracle/paladin) in a homebrew campaign starting in a couple of weeks. I am looking for specific advice and suggestions to my character build's situation, which is not the normal situation. All players were offered to build a level one character with 2000 gold plus the normal starting gold plus the option of getting an extra 900 gold from the rich parents trait or a level two character with normal starting gold plus the option of getting an extra 900 gold from the rich parents trait. I rolled three sets of 4d6 taking the best of the three dice and got the following rolls: 17, 16, 16, 15, 13, 11. I figure that is fantastic. This helps me do a lot with my character.
I also have access to the following books: Core, APG, ARG, Ultimate Combat, Ultimate Campaign, Ultimate Equipment, Ultimate Magic, Bestiary 1-3, Adventurer's Armory, and Animal Archive. The following is a part of the game: unrestricted traits and drawback, emerging guns, no coin weight, use archetypes, use drawbacks (only one), use traits and character flaws, max HP at first level, and roll HPs after that.
After doing a lot of research, this is what I came up with:
Level 1 Human Paladin
Human alternate racial traits: focused study and heart of the wilderness
Paladin archetype: divine hunter
Ability Scores:
Str: 17 (+2) = 19
Dex: 15
Con: 16 (+5 to stabilize from Heart of Wilderness)
Int: 13
Wis: 11
Cha: 16
Feats:
Power Attack
Skills Focus (from focused study): Knowledge (religion)
Traits:
Armor Expert
Magical Knack (Paladin (Divine Hunter))
Seeker
Drawbacks:
House servant (DM chose this)
Ranks in the following skills:
Diplomacy, knowledge (religion), and perception
Armor +1 agile breastplate with armor spikes and armored kilt (1620 gp)
Weapons:
MW composite longbow +0 (400 gp)
greatsword (50 gp)
combat scabbard (heavy blade) (1 gp)
Equipment:
MW backpack (50 gp)
some basic stuff
18 gp left
Here are my thoughts and questions:
I am thinking about getting eldritch heritage (arcane) at level three with divine bond in addition to the divine bond from divine hunter archetype. Should I have the sorcerer divine bond also be put on my composite longbow or on something else?
Is the greatsword (s), armor spikes (p), and combat scabbard (b) a good set? I think it keeps my weight down and easy to use without having to drop weapons. Should I purchase a MW greatsword instead of a MW composite longbow?
Should my level one feat be Power Attack?
Should I go eldritch heritage feat at level three?
Should I go Paladin, Paladin, Oracle x3, Paladin?
Basically, how can I optimize it anymore?
What suggestions do you have that could help me make a better build?
Where should I be focusing on the future of this build?
Thanks!
Are you going for the 'typical' Oradin that uses Life Link? What are you actually going for with the character? If you just mix two classes together you'll typically get a character who is a mix of weak class A and weak class B. There are some ways to make a serious multiclass 4/4/? combo work I think but... what's the overall character supposed to actually do?
Even if you want to take at least 4 of each, you probably still want to decide if the character is more Oracle or Paladin at core.
These are mostly not updated with very recent options such as Variant Multiclassing (VMC), but I don't know of any of these that would help you, aside from a few oddities like the Elven Branched Spear (for Dex-based reach build) or Estoc (for Dex-based sword and board build) from the Melee Tactics Toolbox. The Paladin guide recommends against going Sword and Board (Aegis), but isn't counting on you going Oradin, so Sword and Board for an Oradin would be not too shabby. Paladin VMC Oracle (Life) or Oracle (Life) VMC Paladin might be worthy of consideration, if you can figure out a way to live with the horrific feat starvation, although both of these VMC options have some dud levels built into them, so they aren't as attractive as you would want Variant Multiclassing to be -- the Oradin guide (not the other 2) actually has VMC and doesn't recommend it, although it does list (not recommend) some other VMC options (in which the secondary class is neither Oracle nor Paladin).
I do not believe the DM has Pathfinder Unchained, which means I can't VMC. As for what I would do with my character, this is how it has evolved in my mind. At first, I wanted to be the healer, hence Life Oracle. I was thinking about getting a wand of sanctuary and a wand of cure light wounds and just sit their healing everyone. Then I thought about how that could just get boring pretty quickly. Then I read about the Oradin via LoH, Life Link, etc. I am learning about the 'typical' Oradin that uses Life Link. I do want to join in combat. I think the typical Oradin sounds really fun for me.
I think the channeling and the Life Link is really important for an Oradin, where all the extra spells are handy to help heal members who are down HP and need healing. I know there will be a dedicated fighter and a dedicated wizard in the group. I think their will be a rogue of some sort. I am not sure about the other one or two guys.
I was thinking that my character could either be in the back shooting arrows and doing healing, but I think it would be more fun being in the front and perhaps using either a 2H weapon like the greatsword or using a reach weapon like the naginata, which requires another feat I believe, to keep others from passing through. I was thinking about building all the feats around being able to soak as much HP as possible while still staying up, such as grabbing a level in fighter with the unbreakable archetype to get the two feats to stay up even when at negative, so my character can help keep a TPK from happening. If I did that, then my character could use a tower shield instead of a heavy shield or quick draw steel shield, which if my character used a shield, then my character would wield a rapier, scimitar, or another 1H weapon. I thought that since my character has high stats, it could be able to handle some basic archery and some basic melee combat abilities.
I also thought about building up to a Vindicator or similar PrC if my DM will allow it, but I can't plan on him building a scenario around my character being in the required situation in the future.
Looking at my character right now, I think it might be better to switch my MW weapon to the greatsword instead of the composite longbow, and just buy a regular longbow since it won't be MW, and make the longbow as the backup. I could drop the divine hunter and take on hospitaler or sacred servant.
As for an oracle, I was thinking my character could take the lame or tongues curse. At level three, when my character gets Eldritch Heritage, I could either get the bonded item or a familiar and get the protector archetype from the arcane bloodline or get a tumor familiar through the aberrant bloodline and aberrant tumor feat, so it can attach itself to my character, which it then gains Fast Healing 5. Also, I could take cavalier order of the shield option to get resolute at level 2, but I think that could be a waste of two character levels.
^Unbreakable Fighter trades out Tower Shield Proficiency.
That right. Good catch. Would Unbreakable still be worth it for the two feats and the lead towards the fast healer feat? Or would taking a level in fighter be worth the free feat towards the tower shield and an extra combat feat for something else?
Considering that a Life Link Oradin already has to weaken their Paladin level by a fair deal, and that they also need their class abilities as functional as possible, I wouldn't go spreading your levels even more thin with other classes.
Some things to look at if you're interested in maximizing the advantages of multiclassing for combat and powers:
1.Oath of Vengeance - Your uses per day of Smite Evil will be rather lousy with your Paladin level low; this wonderful option lets you trade in Lay on Hands uses for Smite when you need it. Of course, uses of Lay on Hands are important as well... but at least that's based as much on charisma as level, and you've got lots of charisma. Extra Lay on Hands as a feat is kind of weak, but it's at least an option; there is no Extra Smite feat.
2.Four levels of Oracle, Magical Knack and Fate's Favored Traits - Four levels of Oracle is a good place to be: you only lose -1 BAB, it gives you four uses of Life Link, it reaches second level spells, and if you take Magical Knack it means your Oracle caster level is 6. With a caster level of 6, the spell Divine Favor reaches +2. With Fate's Favored, that +2 becomes +3. So among other spellcasting options, you've got a very nice +3/+3 combat buff many times per day.
3.Temple Champion Paladin - If you're able to take this from the Advanced Class Guide, it's perfect. You trade your nearly useless weaker Paladin spellcasting and your weak Divine Bond, and get a Cleric Domain Power and a Warpriest Blessing. These can get you some downright amazing abilities if you have stacked charisma (though usually only one of the two will be really amazing). For instance, take a look at the minor Glory Blessing power. If you were to use a Dual Talent Human, you could push your charisma up to 18+ and force anything that tries to attack you or a protected ally to make a tough will save or just fail the attack. The Repose Domain's Gentle Rest power gives you the ability to just straight-out stagger things, and the Blessing gives you another batch of uses for it; on a Conductive sword, you could be staggering foes with sword-strikes all day.
The typical Oradin builds are Paladin 2 / Oracle X or Paladin 2 / Oracle 4 / Paladin X. Going four levels of Oracle gets you to Lesser Restoration faster than you would as a straight Paladin. Magical Knack is frequently taken as a trait to aid the Oracle spellcasting.
Paladins can use wands, so starting with Paladin doesn't mean you can't heal. You just need a wand of CLW in order to do so.
Which route you take depends largely on how much you want to get into melee. Since both classical builds start out the same way, you don't have to decide until you get to 7th level.
Sadly, my GM said he is not using Advanced Class Guide.
Divine Favor spell: In which book is it written?
Fate's Favored Trait: Would I be dropping the armor expert or the seeker for that? I assume getting the +4 to perception is worth getting a drawback.
Regarding the class archetypes: So if I go Oath of Vengeance instead of either the hospitaler or divine hunter, I would be building a stronger melee paladin. Going with that oath, my character could get the sacred servant, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of getting the Oath of Vengeance? or the warrior of the holy light archetypes, which would cost me all of my spells even as an oracle, which is why I am taking the oracle levels, right?
Regarding the Dual Talent Human (DTH): Since I can't take the Temple Champion Paladin, would the DTH be worth giving up Heart of the Wilderness and the Focused Study line, which gets me Eldritch Heritage for an aberrant tumor familiar or a different familiar altogether?
When in combat: melee with shield and sword? bow as backup? 2H weapon 2H reach weapon? I don't have access to the Tactics Toolbox at this time, since he does not own this companion book. I'd like to be in combat pretty soon. Though I would be willing to do one level of oracle first before getting two levels of paladin, then switching back to three more levels of oracle. OPPOOO? If I did this, then I could buy a +1 holy reliquary agile breastplate, a MW living steel heavy steel shield, and a mere club.
Divine Favor is a Core spell. You can take the Additional Traits feat if you want to grab all the traits; otherwise take whatever you like for the character. A Paladin doesn't need to use Divine Favor and traits to do well in battle, but +3/+3 is never a bad thing.
The Eldritch Heritage thing is useful, but I would probably save the feats for things like Fey Foundling instead. Dual Talent Human is great for pushing your charisma higher, but it's very optional - use it if you don't need the feat or you have some reason for grabbing every bit of charisma you can. Paladins do love high charisma.
Oath of Vengeance completely changes your Smite abilities from 1-2 per day to ?/day. Taking an archetype that slightly lowers your regular uses/day changes nothing about the benefits of Oath of Vengeance. They arguably go well together since you're needing those extra smites more than ever.
Warrior of the Holy Light only loses Paladin spells (things like that are always class-specific). It's nice that it gets you a tiny number of extra LoH; the ability it gives is decent (though held back by multiclassing), but it requires a standard action to use, so it's kind of clunky to use with your other options.
Sacred Servant is another way to get access to a Domain, and depending on your god that can be pretty powerful - your 'level' for the domain will be really terrible, but there are some very nice domain powers that don't care about level. Domain access can also open up some useful spells (mostly for casting with a wand).
My DM says my character's deity is Vitalia, a NG deity that he made up. I believe it's his life and light giving deity. He said I can use a similar deity for purposes of feats, domain, etc. Fey Foundling is in the Inner Sea Guide, which is outside of the allowed books. Is there a deity that might work that would have good domain powers that don't care about level that would be worth getting the Sacred Servant?
Also, I have access to the following Oracle archetypes: Dual-Cursed Oracle, Enlightened Philosopher, Planar Oracle, Possessed Oracle, Seer, and Stargazer. If I go only to level 5 Oracle, then the Dual-Cursed Oracle is not worth it. Enlightened Philosopher seems like it could work. The next four change either the first or the third revelation from optional to a required revelation, so I don't think I would take any of the other four.
I could also change my strength to 16+2=18 and charisma as 17 and give it +1 at level four. However, that would put my paladin at a medium encumbrance with all of the weight that I intend to have on it. And lame won't help until later levels. So, I think I should just keep strength at 19 and charisma at 16 and put a +1 to strength at level 4. The other option is to put the +2 to charisma 16+2=18 and have strength at 17 and give it a +1 at level 4. How does this sound?
If you can use Shizuru as an example of a good/light/life kind of deity, then grab the Repose Domain. It's kind of a holy life/death theme for a good deity. The Gentle Rest power is just plain awesome - touch something and it's staggered, plain and simple.
Dual Cursed Oracle is extremely good for two reasons:
1)"Misfortune" lets you cause rerolls as an immediate action, once per day per creature. So once per day, you and your allies get a reroll when they need it. Once per day per enemy, you can force a reroll. Enemy rolls a crit on your ally? Nope, reroll. Ally fails a save? Nope, reroll. Enemy makes a save? Nope, reroll. The only thing is that if your GM hides rolls, you'd have to talk about how you would use it on foes - maybe like if a roll is over 15 they tell you, or something like that.
2)Ill Omen. Very good Level 1 spell, no saving throw. Makes the target reroll the next two d20 rolls it has to make (once your Oracle caster level reaches 5 with Magical Knack). Works with Misfortune to force a double reroll. Perfect for teamwork with your Wizard - enemies don't make saving throws when they have to roll them 2 or even 3 times. Same thing if the enemy has to reroll their attacks over and over. Instead of a 'curse', treat it like divine intervention. Once you've got a little money, Pearls of Power basically add level 1 spell slots, so you'll have plenty of level 1 castings/day.
If you have a Conductive, Spell Storing sword, you can channel Gentle Rest and cast Ill Omen on a target with a single sword-strike... then hover over them with Misfortune waiting. A very powerful way to 'proactively' protect allies.
For Oracle curses, note that Lame will hopelessly cripple your movement if you wear much armor. I prefer Tongues or Haunted myself, but to each their own.
If I got dual cursed oracle, then would it be worth going to level 5 or even level 6 at that point? level 5 for the third mystery or level 6 for the next set of spells? Also, if only I could get the cackle hex to extend the misfortune or ill omen spell and it actually work. Is that even possible? First, even if I did get cackle, would it extend this misfortune or ill omen? Second, if that is possible, then, is it possible to get the hex as well as get the mysteries from the life oracle? Third, is it possible with the books to which currently have access? Fourth, would it be worth going that route?
The repose domain seems great.
I wouldn't go more than 4 Oracle. At 4, you've lost only 1 BAB, raided a bunch of great Oracle features, and got level 2 spells and a level 6 caster level. That's a good point to stop neglecting Paladin.
Cackle would do nothing even if it did 'work', since the effects in question aren't based on a duration.
^Except that in a PbP or PbEM, some GMs might (and I have actually seen this proposed) house rule the Misfortune and Fortune of Dual-Cursed Oracle to work the same as the Witch Hexes of the same name, not as a random house rule to bedevil threads like this with, but to speed up gameplay (Immediate Actions that interrupt other actions are not bad for FtF, but really slow things down in PbP/PbEM). Actually, I wish that they had either made this official or given those Revelations different names from the Witch Hexes, which were here first (Advanced Players Guide = 2010; Ultimate Magic for Dual-Cursed Oracle archetype = 2011).
First, I want to thank both of you for your help so much.
So, let's say I went with Oath of Vengeance and Sacred Servant with the Repose Domain. Perhaps I go for only four levels of oracle.
However, if I take the dual-cursed oracle archetype, then I lose the life mystery spells. Isn't it better for me to get the life mystery spells? I also want to go with the tongues curse as my primary curse/blessing. If I went with dual-cursed, then I would take on haunted, but that plus the losing of the life mystery spells seem to be not worth it. Am I misunderstanding something here? Is it worth it for misfortune and ill omen? Perhaps I can save up for a conductive, spell storing sword to channel gentle rest and cast ill omen while damaging a boss monster. But is it worth the opportunity cost?
Dual-Cursed is certainly not necessary, it's just a powerful option. All of the Life Mystery spells are Oracle spells anyways, so you can pick them if you really want them; Ill Omen is normally only a Witch spell. It's nice to get Lesser Restoration for free since you'll want to take Shield Other as your level 2 spell pick, but you can always just get a wand if you need it.
Haunted generally isn't much of an issue. Well, unless you're digging through your pack in the middle of a battle or deliberately dropping things on the ground that you need to pick up again right away. It only affects 'stored' things, so things like your weapon in it's scabbard or an item on your belt don't count.
That's amazingly crazy! Now, that means I have to do MORE researching! I do appreciate that information! I will definitely look into it. Did you take any specific feats, archetypes, traits, or other combos? I would like to check into that build! What do you think about this BadBird and UnArcaneElection?
I can't find Tea of Transference, but the Meditation Crystal sounds legitimate but bugged in the item's description: It lets channeling of any level no matter how low recharge the Lay On Hands of any level no matter how high. I would like to see the build that uses these, but Meditation Crystal souds like something that should really be Errata'd -- otherwise, you can use a level 1 Channel Energy to recharge a Level 20 Lay on Hands, which means that you can use 2 level 1 Channel Energy efforts to recharge 1 Level 20 Channel Energy or Smite Evil (normal Paladin has the option to convert 2 Lay on Hands into 1 Channel Energy, and Oath of Vengeance Paladin has the option to convert 2 Lay on Hands into 1 Smite Evil -- not sure how you get both options on 1 Paladin, though, since Oath of Vengeance replaces Channel Positive Energy entirely).