Making a good Adept


Advice


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So, the Adept (NPC) class really intrigues me. Sure, it's weak in both BAB and hit die, has only one good save, has only ONE class feature (Familiar), and gets VERY few spells. But, that last bit there is it's redemption. Spells! Some divine and some (traditionally) arcane. Now, I've never played a character in pathfinder who was primarily a caster (my druid was melee and my bard an archer). So, I'm not really sure which spells are good, situational, OP, traps, etc.

Therefore, I'm asking for help in making a good Adept, specifically, ability scores, good feats, good spells to focus on, and good choices for a familiar.

If it helps, the Adept will be a human, and it will likely be 25 point buy for him.

Any and all advice, that is relevant and not simply pure discouragement or derogatory remarks, will be appreciated, ESPECIALLY about the Adept's spell list.

Thanks!


..Why ? What is it about the class that stands out in relation toother classes, any specific spells or combination of spells to make you want to play an adept, or is it rather to make an interesting NPC ?

It might be possible to get into a prestige class since the adept has so few interesting features by itself you wouldn't lose much by doing that.

I'd need a little more information on the purpose you are hoping the adept will fill.

Scarab Sages

You should take a one level multiclass dip into something with either heavy armor or unchained monk. Either way you will shore up your complete lack of armor proficiency and add some offense in melee.

You should also look at the mauler or valet archetypes for the familiar to make it more useful, and the Adept Channel feat to add channeling.

It can be effective, but it will be less powerful than ANY other full or 3/4 caster. If you want to be a better arcane/divine mix class, a Witch, Druid, Shaman, or Oracle will blow this out of the water.


Like a 3.5 wizard, having no class features means you're free to go for a prestige class. Ideally one which expands your spell list; veiled illusionist springs to mind. Until then, spells like sleep, mirror image and invisibility are the best you have.

You realise that the right kind of witch gets everything an adept does and then some, right? A spell list with a mix of spells (but better), actual class features, more and faster spell access, a familiar.


I realize that an Adept is far from a great spellcaster; with that being said, I am looking to make a good one. When tiers are mentioned, the Adept is typically placed higher than many classes that people will play as: Fighters, Brawlers, Gunslingers, Monks, Rogues, etc. So, I'd like to see why and how that's true.

I'd like to make this character a PC (though perhaps GM controlled). I want him to have a role in the party, basically as one of the two casters. He needs to contribute in his role, but is certainly not expected to do everything. And finally, the nail in the coffin: no multiclassing or Prestige classes.

As for armor, I was planning on MW studded leather with no proficiency.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

Scarab Sages

If you are going to go with no armor prof, use Darkleaf Leather Lamellar instead. +4 armor bonus, +5 max dex, no ACP.

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Okay, here's some pointers:

First, since spells are all you've got going for you, pump that WIS to the moon and back. Your low number of daily slots makes extra bonus spells important, and your slow spell level progression makes the save DCs important. Besides, it's not like you're gonna be capable of anything besides casting, so may as well go all-in.

Second, you will similarly be devoting nearly all your wealth to spellcasting. Get a stat headband ASAP, get LOTS of pearls, some metamagic rods, and a library of scrolls.

Third, go for crafting feats to amplify the above. Craft Wondrous Item will double the pearls you can get, while also letting you provide the party with stat boosters and cloaks of resistance and all kinds of neat stuff. Consider Scribe Scroll or even Craft Wand as well.

Finally, you spell selection:
Don't both with cure spells, just take advantage of the fact they're on your list and get/make wands of CLW for after-combat healing. At early levels, cause fear will be good because even if they save they're still debuffed.

After that, your best spells are buffs, condition removal, and a little control. Maybe throw in an evocation or two, just in case.

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Maybe take the trait Dangerously Curious and max out Use Magic Device so you can expand on the magic items you can use.

You will probably be relying on magic items for your basic actions, and only use spells for emergencies or big boss battles and the like.


Okay, so UMD sounds really useful. What are some good all-purpose wands? Or, at least useful often?

Craft skills definitely seem useful too. Nice!

And, out of the three evocation spells on his list, Burning hands, Scorching ray, and Lightningbolt, which is "best?" Loaded question, I know. Burning hands is lower level, so can be enhanced with metamagic most easily, and it's a cone (decent for multiple enemies, right?) but the damage (even with intensified), plus the really short range, leaves me worried. Lightningbolt can do more damage, and is a less resisted type, but the line area and high level makes it harder to use with metamagic, and more situational, perhaps. Plus, they both have reflex saves.

Then there's scorching ray. There's something nice about being in control of the attack roll (as opposed to not being in control of the enemy's reflex save). Plus, it can be enhanced by feats like weapon focus and point blank shot. And, it's in between the other two for spell level.

But, what are your thoughts?


Your best caster will be Samsaran, since you can grab a handful of spells from a divine list of your choice. The Con penalty hurts, but it's 25 point buy.
Edit: missed the human part.

Don't forget familiar archetypes- good for extra defense, offense, or utility.

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Are there any favored class bonus options for adepts?

I would recommend scorching ray because you will be super squishy and burning hands has a range of 15 feet. And you won't get lightning bolt until 7th level or something, right?

Lightning Bolt is good for avoiding friendly fire.

But you may want to focus on non-blasty spells. Look at your spell list and check to see what school of magic you will be using the most. You will probably want Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in that school of magic since your spell levels (and thus Save DCs) is going to lag.


Okay, yeah. I was thinking scorching ray, too. And I'll be focusing on other spells, I'm just of the opinion that it's usually nice to have a blast spell ready, and I was just wondering which would be best, overall. Thanks!

So, what are some good feats, crafting, metamagic, combat, etc., as well as good traits? Specifically for this adept, who will focus on casting, and using wands, and maybe specialise in scorching ray just a bit.

The campaign will probably run from level 4 - 10 or so, if that helps.

As for ability scores, I was planning on focusing on wisdom, with a bit into dexterity and constitution.


At first level, I would suggest taking Persistent Spell and Additional Traits (Magical Lineage, Wayang Spellhunter). This means that right off the bat you can throw around Persistent Sleep (or maybe Persistent Cause Fear if you'd prefer). This will almost certainly be better than any damaging tactic you could possibly attempt. And since you're getting these traits through a feat, you can retrain them later on as you get better spells, like Web and Bestow Curse, which you get just as early as a sorcerer does. By that time, you'll be able to afford a lesser reach metamagic rod to deliver some curses from a safe range.

Speaking of magic items, Pearls of Power will indeed be your life savers. You might also want to consider buying/making a Goz Mask and a wand of obscuring mist as soon as you can afford them, to make use of the wonderful mist assassin strategy. Along that line, Stealth and Perception could be great for this character, not just for when mist, but also to get surprise rounds in which to cast - and maybe set up the mist. If you go this route, you could take Wisdom in the Flesh (stealth) and a trait to boost perception, so you could make use of your high wisdom score for something other than spellcasting.

Edit: If you're starting at level four, you could just start with persistent webs if you'd like, although sleep and cause fear would still be good options.

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Wands of Ill Omen might be fun to spam. Probably requires UMD.


I'm not seeing anything that makes an adept better at spamming wands of Ill Omen than, say, a commoner.


I must say I find the idea very daring and it's surely going to leave a GM and party members baffled.

There are 3 things in this class going for you and those are:

1. a high Will save (full class progression plus having Wis as a primary stat)
2. a familiar
3. Some interesting spells

My two cents:
1. Put all your points into Wis and Con, followed by Int and Dex. Dump Str and Cha.
You will need a high Wisdom to make your spells hard to resist and hit, and you need Con not only to boost your HP and Fort saves, but also the HP of you familiar as well. For race, I would personally pick Dwarf. They get a lot of resistances to make up for having only a Will save, and they got all the stat bonuses in the right places.

2. Put all your ranks in Spellcraft and Use Magic Device, perhaps a Knowledge skill or two if you have the points left.

3. Take Improved Familiar and perhaps a teamwork feat like Improved Spell Sharing or something that enhances your familiar in the best way possible. Get the best familiar available, like an Imp.

Still, you are truly fighting an uphill battle. This class isn't just suboptimal it's really mega underpowered. Mystic Theurge is probably a better idea overall for a similar character.

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I think there is a trait that lets you use Int instead of Cha for UMD, might be worth taking a look at if you dump Cha and boost Int.

Half-elf might be worth it for Skill Focus UMD. Or another skill and then going Eldritch Heritage for some other magical options.


Could someone help me understand "Web" a little better? I mean, I definitely see how it's crippling to enemies, but it also seems rough for the party. If it grants cover to those in it, doesn't that mean our archer is basically "debuffed?" And, its great if they're stuck in it, but how would our melee fighters get over to the enemy without having to make tons of grapple checks too?
The only thing it really seems really useful for is casting more spells while they're stuck, or giving the party enough time to regroup, or switch tactics, or flee.
Unless I'm misunderstanding something.
So, what's so good about Web?

Scarab Sages

Web + Burning Hands = Poor Man's Fireball.


Ahh... interesting.

So, does it still have all those cons that I listed, or do I not understand how it works?


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If you wanted to go NPC... go kobold.

1. The CR of a kobold with NPC levels is Level - 3 instead of -2 so a kobold Adept 5 is a CR 2 encounter, not a CR 3

2. Small size (see below)

Give your kobold Adept 3/Warrior 2. This lets your kobold wear some armor, wield different weapons. Then give them the "swoop dinosaur" familiar. Not super-optimized for combat, but whatever; it flies. Finally, give the familiar the Mauler familiar archetype.

Now you have a kobold flying around on his "dragon" (Medium sized swooping dinosaur familiar) lobbing spells from overhead or attacking with a ranged weapon while his familiar charges and therefore gets reach with its bite attack. Give him the following feats:

Mounted Combat, Evolved Familiar: Improved Damage, Point Blank Shot

Your kobold could stand in for an Inquisitor or a Warpriest. He's flying around in decent armor, the familiar has leather barding without hindering it too much and he could even have a light shield. Suddenly this CR 2 encounter with the Heroic array for NPCs is dropping +9 or better crossbow attacks from range, then strafing the area with 3d4 Burning Hands spells while the familiar charges from Reach with a bite +7 (1d8 +1 plus Poison DC 11) attack.

Whoa. That'd be nice.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

With Magical Knack, 5d4 burning hands.

But I suspect this exercise is for a PC, not an NPC.


Mark, that does sound really interesting, but as SmiloDan mentioned, this is for a PC, who is likely going to be human. Still, cool ideas though.

This Adept could also be a Grippli, if anyone can come up with anything really cool for that...


Bump?


Check out The Adequate Commoner by Misfit Studios

Good advice for optimizing a suboptimal class.


I actually got that and have been reading it. Very useful! That's why most of my questions are about spells, because those aren't addressed (obviously) there.

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