Modern Humans!


Homebrew and House Rules

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Scythia wrote:
Really, intelligence as a heritable trait? I thought eugenics had died a well deserved death already.

Uh... I don't think that would qualify as eugenics.

While I have never seen any scientific studies that demonstrated that one ethinicity or another was smarter than the others (well... none that used real science, that is. Only old ones that used pseudo-science to justify racism), why wouldn't intelligence be influenced by genetics (i.e.: your parents and ancestors, not your ethinicity)?


I've played some gnomes and they would find the maximum intelligence insulting. It should be based on highest level of education completed, but mostly for your modern humans.

Doctors and Veterinarians would have proficiency with a hypo full of sedative.

There is some sparse evidence that the pharaohs had advanced technology, but their selfishness resulted in it being lost when their empire fell.

Much of the game is based on the concept of, "Reality is complicated, and we do not know everything." It's easiest to not have upper limits, because someone can point to real exceptions. The same with minimums. A real life murder hobo, recruited to explore the brave new world with a scientist, is going to be stupid and strong. A U.S. soldier would be used to a full kit, and could probably use chainmail if they found some.


Lemmy wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Really, intelligence as a heritable trait? I thought eugenics had died a well deserved death already.

Uh... I don't think that would qualify as eugenics.

While I have never seen any scientific studies that demonstrated that one ethinicity or another was smarter than the others (well... none that used real science, that is. Only old ones that used pseudo-science to justify racism), why wouldn't intelligence be influenced by genetics (i.e.: your parents and ancestors, not your ethinicity)?

The basis of eugenics was that having people who had high levels of a trait breed would pass the trait to their offspring. It is basically Lamarckian evolution (equally unsound), often with a veneer of ethnocentric thought.

The reason it doesn't work is because intelligence, athletic ability, and other traits that eugenics attempted to breed for, are applied abilities, as much as they are inherited (if they are inherited at all). The child of two star athletes will run no better than the child of two lazy bums unless they train. Some genius parents are frustrated that their child isn't able to keep up with them, while some regular folks are confused by their child's outsize intellect.

What does tend to happen is that the environment that the child is raised in has a chance to allow them the opportunity to hone talents their parents share. A child of two scholars has a great opportunity to receive an excellent education. A child of two Olympic athletes will be encouraged to stay active.


Lemmy wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Really, intelligence as a heritable trait? I thought eugenics had died a well deserved death already.

Uh... I don't think that would qualify as eugenics.

While I have never seen any scientific studies that demonstrated that one ethinicity or another was smarter than the others (well... none that used real science, that is. Only old ones that used pseudo-science to justify racism), why wouldn't intelligence be influenced by genetics (i.e.: your parents and ancestors, not your ethinicity)?

Some studies of the intelligence of Ashkenazi Jews have provided evidence of strong(er) cognitive abilities.


Well, obviously it isn't the only factor, maybe not even the main factor, but genetics certainly plays a role on intelligence and atheticism.

It seems plausible that two parents with a certain trait would have a greater chance of having a child with that same trait than two parents who didn't have it.

The problem with eugenics "science" is that it tries to tie those traits to ethinicity rather than the genetics of the individual. Most often because the "science" in question was being used to justify a socio-political agenda rather than actually finding any truth. The "studies" were made with a certain conclusion in mind, so they simply cherry-picked whatever results they wanted.

Real science is about reaching conclusions based on evidence, not about fabricating and twisting evidence to reach a predetermined conclusion.


jocundthejolly wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Scythia wrote:
Really, intelligence as a heritable trait? I thought eugenics had died a well deserved death already.

Uh... I don't think that would qualify as eugenics.

While I have never seen any scientific studies that demonstrated that one ethinicity or another was smarter than the others (well... none that used real science, that is. Only old ones that used pseudo-science to justify racism), why wouldn't intelligence be influenced by genetics (i.e.: your parents and ancestors, not your ethinicity)?

Some studies of the intelligence of Ashkenazi Jews have provided evidence of strong(er) cognitive abilities.

I'd like to see those studies (and its reviews by other scientosts) too, since I'm very suspicious of this kind of studies and "cognitive abilities" is a very vague term.


Lemmy wrote:

Well, obviously it isn't the only factor, maybe not even the main factor, but genetics certainly plays a role on intelligence and atheticism.

It seems plausible that two parents with a certain trait would have a greater chance of having a child with that same trait than two parents who didn't have it.

It's only plausible if the trait is based upon genetics. I can't recall seeing any good evidence that intelligence is a genetic trait.


While I agree with those saying intelligence is not meaningfully heritable, I think we should keep in mind that evolution simply doesn't really have a chance to happen in the Global North anymore. Ideally, in a buncha more decades, it will stop being a thing altogether—at least for humans.

From my Biology 101 education two years ago, I'm pretty sure that evolution needs two main things to happen: Genetic diversity, which we have plenty of, and population limiters like wolves.

And because wolves aren't really killing us off anymore, the only evolution I can see taking place would be in response to disease and sickness. "Intelligence" (or "interest in academic studies") doesn't protect you from getting sick. It can get you rich enough to obtain health care in countries that don't give you that automatically, but it can also make you decide to get a Liberal Arts degree, so I think that balances out regardless.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Nope.

Evolution requires diversity and competition. Both exist in the modern world. In fact, because there are 7 billion+ folk spinning around the sun, evolution is probably occurring more than ever. More copies of genes with more different variations of those genes.


But without death as a factor, far fewer individuals are being prevented from "finding a mate".

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Ugh.

It's not about finding a mate. (Well, that's important)

It's about having more offspring than your competitors. So if you have 8 kids and they only have 1, great. If you have 3 and they only have 2, fine. If you have 1 and they have 0, that's gonna work too.

Death doesn't need to be a factor. Someone who lives to be 100 and has no kids is just as bad (gene copying-wise) as someone who lives to be 18 and has no kids.


Scythia wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

Well, obviously it isn't the only factor, maybe not even the main factor, but genetics certainly plays a role on intelligence and atheticism.

It seems plausible that two parents with a certain trait would have a greater chance of having a child with that same trait than two parents who didn't have it.

It's only plausible if the trait is based upon genetics. I can't recall seeing any good evidence that intelligence is a genetic trait.

It seems improbable that it isn't affected by genetics, though... Pretty much everything else is.

But whatever...


Yes, but we definitely aren't going to have "more evolution than ever" when the majority of specimens are living long enough to pass on genes.

Liberty's Edge

It has been some time now that RL human beings have used their brain (and technology) to adapt far faster than through evolutive mutations ;-)

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

There's a lot more variance now (7 billion people vs 1 million or how ever many pre-agrarians there were). Also, some people have 0-1 kids, some have 2 or 3, some have 4 or 6 and some have 7 to 10 or more. The more kids you have, the more copies of your genes are getting passed on.

And genes linked to using your brain (and technology) are passed on to kids too, if those genes are in any way associated with increased child output.

For example, if you're good at knocking up folks you're not pair-bonded with, you can dupe other folks into doing your child rearing for you, which frees up your time for more knocking boots. Being a scumbag is a people skill. :-P And it's also a successful reproductive strategy.

Community Manager

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This thread is going in some...interesting directions, so as a quick, preemptive reminder: please be civil, thank you.


To the OP:
You can certainly do that for your homebrew. Nothing overtly breaky about it. It's a game so have fun!

To the concept of INT being heritable:
It certainly is. Just ask any breeder of dogs.

For clarity's sake:
What Lemmy said.

The 'breeding true' idea doesn't play with the human animal because ethnicity breed. Humans are one species with many cultures but our ethnic boundaries have no real correlation with our genetic footprint. Genotype is >> Phenotype. And to be pedantic, I'm saying humans are collectively analogous to one breed.

Eugenics (as practiced, not as theory) looked selectively and/or arbitrarily at Genotype and cooked up a bunch of hair-brained bigotry to go with it. Sad :( but all too human.

To SmiloDan:
LOL! Some "people skills" aren't as useful as they seem at first glance :p


Here's where the line is.
Modern humans with proper training can learn any class humans from another reality can. Magic has been purged from our culture, and is possibly being hoarded by secret organizations like in Harry Potter. The amazing Randi and his ilk may be abjurationists and not even know it. People have documented powers that then fail when such skeptics are around.

While winged elves can fly without a plane, modern humans cannot without a wingsuit or something. Some fictional series have psychic powers come from a mutated pineal gland or microscopic things in the cells. You are either born with that or you are not.

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