I'm keen on whatever makes the game more enjoyable to run for the GMs.
I'd say a version of that rule that might be kinder to Psi non-caster/Psi Caster, would be that you only get your ability modifier to one side of your power points, you get to choose which.
That one seems like it wouldn't be hard to implement for anyone who is already very committed to two Psionics classes, and it seems like the rules in Psionics are confused on this one itself. I've found places that say you only take your higher ability modifier to power points, and others that say you take it for each separate manifester level track.
This would be a compromise between "You only get power points from your higher level class" and "You get full power points from both classes." Might not be a bad idea to try it out for starters and see what that does.
this is funny the Dread Class at 20th level give five 6th level powers But their power list only has 4 6th level powers on it hahah
^Heh, biggest weakness of Psionics. Limited support.
I'd prefer to keep my wiz/clr levels. As always you're limited per round by actions. I don't see having more spells available as a problem. However, if others feel differently I'll adapt.
Psion Int bast Manifester Dread Cha based Manifester
Also has any one asked. Are Hero points to be used?
The druid/sorc dominated everything in that particular game. He could melee, cast, heal, sneak, fly, spy, etc. and he did them all very very well.
If he had to he could get wrath of god fro ma distance as well. I loved that character and what it became, was just a wee bit harder to make sure the other chars had as much fun.
I don't have an issue with dual caster, or caster/psionic, I'm wondering about the dual psionic having a combined pool for their casting.
Ahh ok then. Well, I don't have a dog in that fight. I'll support whatever your decision is.
Well casters get both spell slots, so...
The only way to make it equivalent, is to track which class gave which PPs, and only use those PPs for the powers gained from it's class.
Keep em' separated.
Another way maybe is only allow stat bonus once?
Well casters get both spell slots, so...
The only way to make it equivalent, is to track which class gave which PPs, and only use those PPs for the powers gained from it's class.
Keep em' separated.
while casters get both spell slots, they cannot mix and match them. I cannot cast a cleric spell out of my wizard slots and vise versa.
So if psionic pools were tracked separately for both classes that generate them and they did not overlap, there shouldn't be a problem. It's only when you pool them all together that it gets out of hand.
There's enough interested players at this point that not everyone is going to get in... We could probably stop worrying about theoretical balance issues and trust the GMs to choose a balanced party...
(And if someone gets picked who doesn't feel like there's appropriate balance they/we could always bow out then and let the spot go to someone without those concerns)
Here's the difference. This is gestalt. Typically when you talk about each side you get the best, but not both. Like Reflex saves. Is one side has a +1 and the other a + 2 your character gets a Reflex save of +2. Not +3.
Spell slots is the same in that you get slots based on caster type. Clr / wiz gets both sides slots since they have different spell lists. Mystic theurges/ cleric for example (if it were allowed) wouldn't get all the slots.
By this reasoning psionics would get whichever pool is the most, but not both since they're literally the same thing.
Perhaps it's not entirely fair, but it is what it is. Unless we choose to change it.
Edit: ninjad by bane. Kinda.
Eh, what's most important is the story and characters.
Honestly, anyone got a good enough grip on their character that they just want to roleplay some interaction? It could even be between cohorts/followers too.
I feel like I've hit a bit of a wall where I just don't feel inspired to work on my crunch, so I'd like to do something else for a bit.
Though my knowledge of psionics is limited I don't really care if someone had a metric ton of points. They can go all day long, but still only so much per round.
Here's the difference. This is gestalt. Typically when you talk about each side you get the best, but not both. Like Reflex saves. Is one side has a +1 and the other a + 2 your character gets a Reflex save of +2. Not +3.
Spell slots is the same in that you get slots based on caster type. Clr / wiz gets both sides slots since they have different spell lists. Mystic theurges/ cleric for example (if it were allowed) wouldn't get all the slots.
By this reasoning psionics would get whichever pool is the most, but not both since they're literally the same thing.
Perhaps it's not entirely fair, but it is what it is. Unless we choose to change it.
Edit: ninjad by bane. Kinda.
OK im fine with that as long as spell caster of any kind lose all their spells slots from one side of their gestalt casters as well, and have to use just one sides slots for all spells. That's 100% the same.
Myself I think Pooling need not happen I don't do it any way. That would fix this easy. Two pools one for each sides powers. The Bouns to pools stay just as spell casters get their Stat Bonus, Lucky for me that is the ruling just given
Though my knowledge of psionics is limited I don't really care if someone had a metric ton of points. They can go all day long, but still only so much per round.
Question, how would the separate pool system effect classes that have absolutely no way to spend power points? I have 130 PP from Aegis, but I don't have any powers or class abilities to spend them on.
** spoiler omitted **
You need to re-read what I wrote. Not all spell slots are the same.
Also, I was pointing out the mechanic. Then I indicated we're free to change the same.
1st level power maxed 25 point thats 4 times you can use that power per 100 points look at spell casters
6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6 spells
6x1 points
6x3 points
6x5 points
6x7 points
6x9 points
6x11 points
6x13 points
6x15 points
6x17 points
486 power points to manifest like a 20th level caster and Psions only get 343 points at 20th level
Casters get more spells from stat and Psions get more Power point
But point for point spell for spell casters get a better deal.
It's caster that are over powered in comparison
** spoiler omitted **
Except a 9th level spell can't be broken into 9 1st level spells. It's not a valid comparison.
Edit: unless we're using a spell point system I mean.
Are now we get to it, I know a few who feel its 'unfair' that psionics can spend across their powers. But note that short fall in power points to spells there is the pay back for having that flexibility. So its 100% a valid comparison.
Now has has been stated the Hate/Love thread for Psionics should really be set up for this now. We have a ruling so lets move on.
:)
Question, how would the separate pool system effect classes that have absolutely no way to spend power points? I have 130 PP from Aegis, but I don't have any powers or class abilities to spend them on.
It would seem the entire point for the Aegis gaining Power Points is to spend them via Augment Suit.
I will weigh in on the psionic issue later, once I have some time to really sit down and think it all over.
For now, please let the topic lie.
Oh, right, I forgot about those abilities because I was using Aegis to represent his divine durability and strength to lift super sized quarterstaff, and it doesn't make sense for that to change.
Are now we get to it, I know a few who feel its 'unfair' that psionics can spend across their powers. But note that short fall in power points to spells there is the pay back for having that flexibility. So its 100% a valid comparison.
Now has has been stated the Hate/Love thread for Psionics should really be set up for this now. We have a ruling so lets move on.
:)
You seem to have some preconceived notions about by feelings on the matter, so I'll reiterate more clearly. I don't care. I neither love nor hate psionics. I'm ambivalent. I'm not playing one and have no "skin in the fight," so to speak. I don't know much about psionics (not since 3.5 anyway) and could care less if someone has a million points or not. I'm not comparing the "power level" or anything like it. We're playing a god-like game. I doubt the psionics point pool is going to drastically sway that. To further clarify I'm not upset, but I dislike being misrepresented.
Here's what I am talking about. Purely mechanics.
Gestalt is a X/Y per level. You pick the best of X or Y in any instance where there's an overlap. The reflex save example mentioned previously. Or better yet skill points is a better example. A fighter / rogue gets 8+int skill points per level. Not ((8+Int)+(2+int)) skill points.
Cleric and wizard gestalt spells are different because they are not interchangeable. I can't prepare magic missle in my cleric slots. They're not the same "pool," so to speak like saves, BAB, or skill points.
Again, Mechanically speaking only
Leve 1 Psionic class X / Psionic class Y both have an identical resource. Points. So if X gives 2 points and Y gives 1 point for that one level of gestalt the character would get 2 points not 3.
Now that being said, I will repeat mysef yet again. I truly do not care how the group decides to rule on the matter. It makes absolutely no difference to me. I'm simply pointing out how the current rules for this houseruled character generation process are set up. I'll leave the final decision to a group consensus.
fnord72 ruled: Psionic classes will need to keep separate pools for each side of their gestalt. So the pooling thing is mute now.
Also I think Monkeygod politily ask us to drop the subject.
So that's just what I'm going to do. :)
fnord72 ruled: Psionic classes will need to keep separate pools for each side of their gestalt. So the pooling point is mute now.
Also I think Monkeygod politily ask us to drop the subject.
So that's just what I'm going to do. :)
Works for me.
Yep and me, I'm fine with separate pools, no idea where the pooling thing came from.
Happy how, GMs Hero Points ye or Nay?
So, speaking of changing the topic... I've been working on a double divine caster cleric of Nethys/lore oracle or shaman, but I'm worried that he might end up a little too similar to some of the other double caster/manifesters... I have a cleric of Shelyn/uMonk idea should I work on that instead?
It seems like we don't have much melee posted... Should I maybe emphasize that a bit more?
I'm shocked and surprised nobody has yet to put forth a serious trickster/rogue type build. Not saying that's what you should do Nate, but dang, somebody should lol.
That was one of the other concepts I had in mind...
But, I think Illia's character is super melee, and DT certainly will be, not to mention MG's character...
I'm currently leaning towards ruling that Power Points are tracked entirely separately as TCG mentioned above. Also, if you have two classes that share a modifier stat, you only get the bonus points once.
I think Fnord's wiz/rogue is a trickster...
Ninja/sorc/arcane trickster...
uRogue/sorc/arcane trickster...
ooh
uRogue or Ninja/arcanist/arcane trickster
something along these lines...
although...
In another game, I play an investigator/swashbuckler gestalt.
He's a pretty big skill monkey on top of being a decent fighter.
I guess it depends on why brand of "rogue" to go for...
I also had a warpriest/hunter idea. Warpriest of one of the Golarion elven gods...
So many ideas...
I'm shocked and surprised nobody has yet to put forth a serious trickster/rogue type build. Not saying that's what you should do Nate, but dang, somebody should lol.
I... kinda do? My inquisitor/oracle sneak attacks and feints, reads all minds around him with no save, has max ranks in 20 different skills (and is trained in all the rest), and with invisibility active gets up to +102 to stealth. I should finish items so I can post the build, I guess.
Wait...you said anything from Rogue Genius was allowed?
Wait...you said anything from Rogue Genius was allowed?
Ahh, no. Not quite. Classes are not, other options might be, case by case. Which is pretty much how I'm handling all 3pp stuff.
Curious, what were you looking at from them?
Wait...you said anything from Rogue Genius was allowed?
Ahh, no. Not quite. Classes are not, other options might be, case by case. Which is pretty much how I'm handling all 3pp stuff.
Curious, what were you looking at from them?
Making Eragon :P
Course, I suppose I could do that by getting a dragon cohort, and use him (or her) for a mount. Dunno how the "bond" thing would go...
I rather liked the Dark Tempest character, though I'm kinda biased as I love the Soulknife, lol
Yeah, I don't plan on changing him up. Was just pondering the other combos :)
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He's gonna play out a lot like a Sith assassin from SWTOR, only (way) less evil.
Ok, so we have some solid melee, some tricksy types, and several wizardy guys (which I'm lumping TCG with), it looks like maybe a full-on cleric/divine type really might be the way to go... That still leaves the question though of whether to go with the more well rounded cleric/monk or the double divine caster?