Flaming hands cone downward...

[GhostFires]

Does the 15 foot cone of fire created with fire by Burning Hands turn into a 15 foot burst when fired with your hands directed at your feet?
was curious if this could be a thing, or if it does not work that way. I will say that this seems like it could be a source of debate as it makes sense, at least to me.

[CampinCarl9127]

No, it absolutely does not. It simply hits the ground and ends there.

[GhostFires]

only reason i thought to ask is because this would likely work if you factored in physics, and while i know this is just a game, i thought it relevant to bring up. While it would most likely damage you as well if this did work, for some characters that might not necessarily be a bad thing.

[Slithery D]

I think there are easier ways for your character to castrate himself, tbh.

[Claxon]

No, that was somethign that could happen in earlier editions of D&D, but definitely not Pathfinder.

It use to be you could cast lighnting bolt and it could bounce back and forth off of walls if the hallway was shorter than the total length of the lightning bolt causing damage multiple times as it was redirected.

A fireball filled a certain volume, and if constrained would flow along available paths until the volume was used up.

But the rules were complicated, and eventually went to the wayside for ease of game play.

[GhostFires]

That is a little saddening. Sounds like a very innovative way to make spells work in unexpected ways. i can understand why they would have wanted make the gameplay easier though.

[CampinCarl9127]

If you want to houserule that in feel free. It sounds like it could make for some fun and creative plays.

[Sah]

I would allow it to create a burst, but certainly not 15 feet, in a game I dm. You would also definitely take damage though.

[Byakko]

I wouldn't advocate trying the following on a regular basis, but you might be able to talk the GM into allowing you to point the cone downward while you're airborne.

While the targeting rules don't really account for many 3D situations, it's reasonable to allow a nice downward AoO from a cone if you're high enough in the air. Flying is naturally the easiest way to do this, but you could also pull off such a stunt with a jump and a readied action.

[Crimeo]

Quote:

only reason i thought to ask is because this would likely work if you factored in physics

1) There's no reason to expect magic to follow physics

2) If the spell acted like a mundane flamethrower, even then, the volume of flaming stuff, even if it bounced off the floor, would result in a much lesser radius, because a cone is more focused. It would be about a 5' radius in all directions at once, if anything, redistributing the same amount of stuff in that shape.

3) Also, if you're arguing it should bounce, it would of course also in part bounce right back up and hit you, in addition to going to the sides.

[Abraham spalding]

Quote:

A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It's like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it's not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.

You must have a clear line of effect to any target that you cast a spell on or to any space in which you wish to create an effect. You must have a clear line of effect to the point of origin of any spell you cast.

A burst, cone, cylinder, or emanation spell affects only an area, creature, or object to which it has line of effect from its origin (a spherical burst's center point, a cone-shaped burst's starting point, a cylinder's circle, or an emanation's point of origin).

An otherwise solid barrier with a hole of at least 1 square foot through it does not block a spell's line of effect. Such an opening means that the 5-foot length of wall containing the hole is no longer considered a barrier for purposes of a spell's line of effect.

There's the rule reason it doesn't work

[Rub-Eta]

GhostFires wrote:

this would likely work if you factored in physics

You're playing Pathfinder, you can't do this.

[Galnörag]

I am actually unclear in a more conventional scenario, does a cone shaped spell target a 3D cone or a 2D wedge. Say you were standing in an amapthether and fired a cone into the audience, does it only strike folks inline with you origin plane or so long as they were within the radius distance of the origin point and within the 45 degree arc would they be hurt?

[Abraham spalding]

Galnörag wrote:

I am actually unclear in a more conventional scenario, does a cone shaped spell target a 3D cone or a 2D wedge. Say you were standing in an amapthether and fired a cone into the audience, does it only strike folks inline with you origin plane or so long as they were within the radius distance of the origin point and within the 45 degree arc would they be hurt?

Answered here

[Crimeo]

A cone is a cone. Cones are 3d. A 2d cone is called a triangle, and no spells specify that.

[Kazaan]

Crimeo wrote:

A cone is a cone. Cones are 3d. A 2d cone is called a triangle, and no spells specify that.

You're apparently misunderstanding the original question. This isn't about 3-D combat involving aiming the cone from above and what shape it would make. This is about aiming the cone directly at the ground beneath you and the flames "billowing" out around you like running the sink faucet directly into a spoon.

Magic physics don't really follow normal physics. If you had a flamethrower, and aimed it at the ground, yes, it would, indeed, billow out and cover an area. But the flames from Burning Hands would merely stop short once they hit the ground or any other solid barrier, provided the flame wasn't intense enough to destroy the barrier. As another example, a Fireball isn't really an "explosion" of flame as some might imagine; it creates no shockwave from expanding air, and radiates no heat beyond the limit of its radius. It merely fills the designated radius with fire with no displacement and the fire merely "goes away" after it is done. Moreover, if you detonate the fireball at the far end of the range of the spell, the sphere will be truncated because the fire cannot exist beyond the maximum range of the spell; you'd end up with a cut-off sphere making a dome with a rounded bottom.

Now, if you were flying and aimed the cone downwards, and were high enough, yes, the cross-section would generate a wide circle of fire. But, beyond that, you're out of luck, Chuck.

[Cavall]

He's not misunderstanding the original question, he's answering the question 2 posts above his.