Items dmg from botched save


Rules Questions


If a natural 1 is rolled on a save, an item carried by the target is dealt dmg. What about area spells? Also, are items affected by negative energy ?


Negative energy only harms living creatures, not constructs, undead or items.

(I'm no expert on what happens when you roll a 1 against a fireball - I don't use that rule.)


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber
Rules wrote:
Attended (Held/Wielded etc.) Items: Unless the descriptive text for a spell (or attack) specifies otherwise, all items carried or worn by a creature are assumed to survive a magical attack. If a creature rolls a natural 1 on its saving throw against the effect, however, an exposed item is harmed (if the attack can harm objects). Refer to Table: Items Affected by Magical Attacks to determine order in which items are affected. Determine which four objects carried or worn by the creature are most likely to be affected and roll randomly among them. The randomly determined item must make a saving throw against the attack form and take whatever damage the attack dealt. If the selected item is not carried or worn and is not magical, it does not get a saving throw. It simply is dealt the appropriate damage.

Works the same for area spells or single-target spells.

Negative Energy does not harm objects.

Note also:

Rules wrote:

"Energy Attacks

Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness."


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
SlimGauge wrote:
Note also:
Rules wrote:

"Energy Attacks

Energy attacks deal half damage to most objects. Divide the damage by 2 before applying the object's hardness."

only to be complicated by the next line:

Rules wrote:
Some energy types might be particularly effective against certain objects, subject to GM discretion. For example, fire might do full damage against parchment, cloth, and other objects that burn easily. Sonic might do full damage against glass and crystal objects.

Fire versus paper, I understand. Sonic versus crystal, I understand. Acid versus...what? Everything! So I had a DM say that acid is effective versus metal so it was not halved on armor, weapons, etc.

I try and rule this as "is it obvious that the energy type is effective against the material?" If yes, full damage, if no or uncertain, half damage.

Also, do not forget to apply hardness to the energy damage as well, so that less damage actually passes through to the item.


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Your DM is no chemist. My favorite cleaner is citric acid based, but I don't think that means it gets full damage versus everything ! And if it's equally effective against everything, then it's particularly effective against nothing.

It's like that Mythbusters episode where they tried to use the acid in salsa to weaken the bars of a jail cell excited by the electricity from a radio.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

So if my rogue was carrying nachos around the dungeon...


In truth, acid usually isn't super effective against metals. And by super effective I mean quickly dissolves them.

Corrosive substances (acids/bases) will destroy metals...over time. It depends heavily on the type of metal and type of acid used, and whether it is heated and even the heating method (microwave, hot plate, etc). Personally, I would not rule acid to be especially effective against metals.


I ask because last session I got hit by a fireball, I rolled 1 and I ended up with a burnt belt. Makes sense... I will have to house rule that all items get hit I guess...


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Per the rules I quoted, usually only one item takes a hit if save is a 1. If you want to house-rule otherwise, that's fine, but then we'll have to take this over to the other forum.

Sovereign Court

You determine the item that gets affected by the "table 9-2: items affected by magical attacks" page 216... On the page prior to where it talks about rolling a 1.
To make it a little simpler, start at the top of the list until you reach 4 items, then roll a d4 to figure out which item.
1. Shield
2. Armor
3. Magic helmet, hat, or headband
4. Item in hand (including weapon, want, etc)
5. Magic cloak
6. Stored or sheathed weapon
7. Magic bracers
8. Magic clothing
9. Magic jewelry (including rings)
10. Anything else.

If it was a non magical belt, that is category 10, and for it to be affected you must not have had 4 of the previous 9 categories.

Leather has a hardness of 2 and 5 hp per inch of thickness(page 175). I'd probably give the belt 3 hp. It takes half damage so the fireball needed 8 damage to damage the item and 10 to destroy it.


We did it by the book, I only have 4 magic items anyways, so we rolled a d4. I don't think a belt takes half dmg from fire, and even if it did, it was 41 dmg so bye bye.


A belt would take half damage from fire. Cured leather is not particularly vulnerable to fire, like paper or dry straw would be.

I'd use the rule of thumb that if you could ignite it with a handl-held lighter in a couple seconds, it's vulnerable. You'd be hard-pressed to do more than lightly char cured leather with that bic even if you took your time.

I can't find anything about magical items (other than weapons/armor) getting HP and hardness bumps, but I'd think they would.

However, if it was magical, it gets a saving throw.

PRD wrote:
Magic items always get saving throws. A magic item's Fortitude, Reflex, and Will save bonuses are equal to 2 + half its caster level. An attended magic item either makes saving throws as its owner or uses its own saving throw bonus, whichever is better.


Humanas, it's not 4 magic items, it's 4 items. Categories 1, 2, 4 and 6 on this list can be satisfied by either mundane or magical items. So you could have your sword (4 or 6) melted by a fireball even if it's non-magical (which makes sense).

So if you had items in 2, 4, 6 & 10:
1 - (nothing)
2 Armor
3 - (nothing)
4 Item in hand (say a dagger)
5 - (nothing)
6 Stored or sheathed weapon
7 - (nothing)
8 - (nothing)
9 - (nothing)
10 - Anything (your Magic Belt)
Then your magic belt would be one of the things checked.

But if you had 4 entries anywhere between 1 & 9 (magic or non-magic), your belt would have been safe.

The belt gets it's own saving throw for 1/2 damage. Now, 41 points, halved for a save, becomes 20 points of damage. If hard leather, then 1/2 again for standard item resistance to energy - now we're at 10 points. Now figure hardness and HP value of the item.

Leather/hide has a base hardness of 2 and 5 points per inch of thickness. I'd agree that 3 points base is probably good for belt leather of a magic belt (think the thick trophy belts of pro-wrestling).

Lastly, hardness and hit point adjustments may be available - but this is likely to have table variation. Some GMs only apply this to weapons and armor, while I've seen others apply it to virtually all items:

If GM agrees, then:

  • Item hardness gets a bonus of +2 for each +1 enhancement bonus - so a Belt of Giant Strength +2 would get +4 points of hardness.
  • Item hit points get a bonus of 10 hp for each +1 enhancement bonus - again, a Belt of Giant Strength +2 would get +20 hit points.

If you're talking a Belt of Giant Strength +2, then you could still have it (possibly damaged) even on a failed item save:

  • 41 HP base damage x 1 (failed save) x 1/2 (leather resistance to energy) = 20.5 HP
  • 20.5 HP minus ( 2 + 4 ) hardness = 14.5 HP
  • 14.5 HP versus ( 3 + 20 ) HP (Belt of Giant Strength +2)
  • Result item with 23 base HP with 15 HP of damage (rounded up)
In this example, the item gains the broken condition, but is not destroyed. Again - this is into the realm of GM ruling, as the hardness and hit point bonuses may or may not be in play at the table for non-armor/non-weapons.

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