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New Star Trek Series Premieres January 2017


Television

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Sovereign Court

What did Isaacs say?


Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

There is a problem - with this show and Enterprise.

When the Enterprise escaped Psi 2000 via Cold Restart hurling them back in time 3 days, Spock notes this as unprecedented. No one had done it before in the history of any species known to the Federation. So Archer could not have ever time traveled in the same timeline.
When they encountered Lazarus, there was no other instance to prove the existence of parallel realities. So no one could have discovered one and lived to tell the tale beforehand.

This is on top of technologies 150+ years ahead of time, and whole species being altered beyond recognition.


I think they need to stop going back in star trek time and instead move forward. Get imaginative get some new technology inspire the next generation. Think about how much of our technology was inspired from star trek. so lets set a new bar.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
GreenDragon1133 wrote:

There is a problem - with this show and Enterprise.

When the Enterprise escaped Psi 2000 via Cold Restart hurling them back in time 3 days, Spock notes this as unprecedented. No one had done it before in the history of any species known to the Federation. So Archer could not have ever time traveled in the same timeline.
When they encountered Lazarus, there was no other instance to prove the existence of parallel realities. So no one could have discovered one and lived to tell the tale beforehand.

This is on top of technologies 150+ years ahead of time, and whole species being altered beyond recognition.

Regarding the escape from PSI 2000, the 'Temporal Cold War', incident(s) would have been so highly classified that I doubt that it would have been known beyond a handful of dusty files and a couple of Vulcans who were alive at the time in positions of command.

In the case of Lazarus, yes, this is a case where Discovery really breaks Canon.


I hasn't bothered me too much because once I saw the spore drive work, I was pretty sure the ship (and the drive, and sadly Stamets) doesn't survive the show. Or they figure out that using the spore drive damages reality and/or warp travel. Or it's all classified above top secret.

I'm not ruling out the first two options, but I'm leaning more on option three on why the NCC-1031's voyages won't break (unclassified) canon.


I really wish Jason Issacs was on the Orville instead of Seth MacFarlane...


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Uh disagree on that one.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I think the mirror universe is woven much deeper into this season's story, and has been from the beginning. My theory is that Lorca is the mirror universe version. He's missing from that universe, because he found a way to cross over into our reality.

The mirror universe Burnham is quite probably dead, maybe killed by him. so he's wanted to recruit prime Burnham, in order to use her – the mirror universe Burnham is said to be influential with the emperor – in his plot to overthrow the emperor.

Note how he has manipulated to get Burnham on his ship and into his service.
Note how he has been pushing the spore drive. Note how has been looking into alternate universes even before Discovery crossed over. Note also how he seems to have interfered with the last jump in the midseason finale to return to the mirror universe.

The identity of the mirror universe emperor also did not surprise me, it was exactly what I expected.


Pathfinder Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
GreenDragon1133 wrote:

There is a problem - with this show and Enterprise.

When the Enterprise escaped Psi 2000 via Cold Restart hurling them back in time 3 days, Spock notes this as unprecedented. No one had done it before in the history of any species known to the Federation. So Archer could not have ever time traveled in the same timeline.
When they encountered Lazarus, there was no other instance to prove the existence of parallel realities. So no one could have discovered one and lived to tell the tale beforehand.

This is on top of technologies 150+ years ahead of time, and whole species being altered beyond recognition.

The best way the new show can maintain continuity is if they fail to return to their own universe in their own time -- then the things they know that they shouldn't know won't affect their original timeline in any way.


Quote:
What really may do it for me is the whole "we want to do our own thing and not be bound by the previous Trek canon". To as Werthead has pointed out they not only bound themselves to current canon they thought we would not notice. I guess when rating fall any previous promises made get thrown out the window.

The entire show was filmed and completed months before it was filmed, so the ratings (or subscriptions) had no bearing on anything that happened in the story.

In addition, the sale to Netflix (which is probably on a 2-4 year contract) has put the show in profit before it filmed a single frame of footage.

Quote:
I can live with how Klingons language sounds even if it annoys me to no end to hear it

This is the original Klingon language from the Marc Okrand dictionary, which is interesting. In the TNG era they drifted away from using it (which they had for the movies) into just making stuff up, but for DISCO they went back to basics.

Quote:

When the Enterprise escaped Psi 2000 via Cold Restart hurling them back in time 3 days, Spock notes this as unprecedented. No one had done it before in the history of any species known to the Federation. So Archer could not have ever time traveled in the same timeline.

When they encountered Lazarus, there was no other instance to prove the existence of parallel realities. So no one could have discovered one and lived to tell the tale beforehand.

This is on top of technologies 150+ years ahead of time, and whole species being altered beyond recognition.

The original Enterprise wasn't part of the Federation and I can see records and mission information not being preserved or deleted or still classified or whatever. Starfleet probably deleted all references to the Temporal Cold War to stop the timeline being polluted.

As for the Discovery mission, my take is that Discovery is a black ops ship (maybe Section 31, maybe not) with top-secret technology and information. My guess is that the stuff it encountered was registered beyond top secret and the information was never released to other ships. Presumably the spore drive is destroyed or rendered inactive, so the Federation concludes that crossing the dimensional barrier again is impossible. When Kirk proves them wrong, they declassify the information for COs so they know what's going on.


GreenDragon1133 wrote:

There is a problem - with this show and Enterprise.

When the Enterprise escaped Psi 2000 via Cold Restart hurling them back in time 3 days, Spock notes this as unprecedented. No one had done it before in the history of any species known to the Federation. So Archer could not have ever time traveled in the same timeline.
When they encountered Lazarus, there was no other instance to prove the existence of parallel realities. So no one could have discovered one and lived to tell the tale beforehand.

This is on top of technologies 150+ years ahead of time, and whole species being altered beyond recognition.

I thought Spock was talking about them being able to time travel on their own. Their escape from PSI 2000 was the first instance of a Federation starship time traveling on purpose. "Now we know; the formula works." Everything on Enterprise was either them time traveling using someone's else's tech or them having time travel forced upon them (the E^2 and WWII instances).


Why couldn't this story be told as a sequel to the DS9 series? I'm just wondering because it seems to be me that they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by putting the show in the future than the past.


Delightful wrote:
Why couldn't this story be told as a sequel to the DS9 series? I'm just wondering because it seems to be me that they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by putting the show in the future than the past.

I seem to remember Fuller was originally pushing for a serial episodes where each season focused on a different ship & timeframe. I think when this was originally in development, Paramount 1) was still expecting nuTrek to be a hit, so they wanted something earlier in the timeline that wouldn't directly contradict the Abramsverse, and 2) the different ships/timeframes each season would be too expensive for needing to (re)create new sets, wardrobe, and props.


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AdmiralAckbar wrote:
I seem to remember Fuller was originally pushing for a serial episodes where each season focused on a different ship & timeframe. I think when this was originally in development, Paramount 1) was still expecting nuTrek to be a hit, so they wanted something earlier in the timeline that wouldn't directly contradict the Abramsverse, and 2) the different ships/timeframes each season would be too expensive for needing to (re)create new sets, wardrobe, and props.

DISCOVERY is made by CBS. When CBS and Paramount split apart with the fall of Viacom, Paramount got the movie rights and CBS the TV rights and the two could not meet (one of the reasons DISCOVERY isn't set in the Abramsverse is because of this rights issue). Paramount have no say in DISCOVERY, at least unless they merge again which apparently is a possibility.

The anthology format was apparently an early idea but CBS weren't keen, feeling having a regular ongoing series was more interesting to them. I also suspect that if DISCOVERY is successful in the long run, they will simply make more STAR TREK shows which can be set in other eras.

Scarab Sages

Officer Stamets is progressing nicely upon his dark path to becoming a fungus lich.

He's more mycelium than man, now....


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

...Well S$#t.... did not see that coming

No wonder fandom had trouble warming up to Lorca


Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Pathfinder Tales Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Guess I was right, then.


It was predictable, but mainly only because of Jonathan Frakes letting slip that they were going to the Mirror Universe. If he hadn't done that, people probably wouldn't have come up with the solution months before they wanted.

Although oddly DISCOVERY does feel like a show that actually would benefit more from being binged in a weekend rather than being torn apart in analysis over the space of five months. That way the twists would work better and the pacing wouldn't feel as off as it has.

The show also has a nice get out of jail card. They can return "home" only to find themselves in the "real" Prime Universe (and discover that their home universe was another variant), or they can bounce from universe to universe exploring different variations on reality (explaining why the Mirror Universe and Spore Drive never become known to the original universe). Interesting to see how they play this.


Pathfinder Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber
Werthead wrote:
bounce from universe to universe exploring different variations on reality (explaining why the Mirror Universe and Spore Drive never become known to the original universe). Interesting to see how they play this.

Kind of like Voyager only with a bigger sandbox


I was reading before that Fuller's original plan was to drop the USS Discovery into

Spoiler:
the Mirror Universe by episode 4. That was revised instead for much more character building (and audience investment) up through now.

I am often wrong about such things, but I think we have already seen why the Spore Drive won't be used for much longer: the damage that MirrorStamets (and possibly PrimeStamets) have already done to the Mycelial Network. That, plus the existing UFP prohibitions against humanoid genegineering, could be why the Spore Drive was eventually banned and classified "above" top secret in the Prime Universe (and why the knowledge was unavailable for USS Voyager to get home). And with Culber definitively dead, Stamets seems increasingly likely to completely give up on further research. If Culber's spirit "lives on" within the network, Stamets may get Discovery home only to project himself bodily into the Network to be with Culber.

Still, there is the third way that Lorca apparently discovered (no pun intended):

Spoiler:
As Burnham now knows, traveling between Mirror and Prime via interphasic rift is lethal to humanoids, as seen with the original crew of the ST:TOS USS Defiant. Travel via the Mycelial Network seems likely to become much more difficult and/or hazardous due to the damage already done to it (and seemingly still spreading). But there seems to be a third way that MirrorLorca used to travel to the Prime before he became captain of Discovery. Is this third method similar to the ion storm + transporter accident seen in ST:TOS's "Mirror, Mirror" and the multidimensional transporter seen in ST:DS9? Is it related to the destruction of the USS Buran under Lorca? Or something else entirely?

And will any of this eventually explain why the expansionist Terran Empire hasn't attempted to invade the Prime universe yet?

Even with the revelations about Lorca, I think what he knows and what he did prior to captaining the USS Discovery will be essential to getting the ship and crew home. So, I suspect he lives for a bit longer, at least until the season finale.

I'm still thoroughly p!ssed at Tyler (and the writers) for the murder in sickbay. After that, I don't want him redeemed or rehabilitated, and I care nothing for his suffering; I just want him bodily, completely dead. Unfortunately, I think he will yet live, and somehow become instrumental in establishing the

Spoiler:
end of the Federation-Klingon War in the Prime universe.

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