| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Saru should definitely be captainIt's not like Starfleet has only one ship.
Actually—given the events of the war—they don't have much more than that...
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My one concern with Saru as captain is actually a pretty old-fashioned one: He's just not particularly inspiring.
Dunno. I thought his speech to the crew before they started attacking the Imperial Palace was quite inspiring and one of the better moments of an already great show. So when I heard that the Discovery would get a new captain I was really disappointed ,because I think that he and Burnham make for a great team. But then I'm a big fan of Saru from the start, it's probably my favorite character from the whole show.
On the other hand, I really liked the whole season so I trust that their idea about that new captain will be a good one. I hope it is not Spock, though, because I seriously believe that the show stands on their own feet and don't need any big, well-known names in it(Sarek is ok, though).
OK, and I admit that I geeked out a bit when the final scene came up.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
1) Is there any precedent for a "central protagonist" in Star Trek?
The original series was pretty strongly Kirk-centric. Spock and McCoy were definitely secondary characters...most of the rest of what is now considered the "main cast" were barely more than extras in the vast majority of the episodes, only infrequently being elevated to the same level as Spock or McCoy.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Let me make something clear:
Threat From Another World, I wasn't accusing you of any misogyny, sexism or anything of that kind. I did not post that as some kind of attack, or trick. I was not referring to the character's gender, I was talking about the character being a new character. My issue is with grognard gatekeeping, sorry if I wasn't clear.
To be clear I'm sorry that my tone was presumptive and my point was unclear. That was on me for not taking the time to make my point clear.
So let me clarify:
The complaints leveled against Michael being a "Mary Sue" could equally be applied to Spock, Janeway or Kirk or Picard. Mary Sue is so overused, misused it has become meaningless. Nerds are always resistant to new characters being as cool as the old characters. It's such a strange instinct we have. The Mary Sue label is a symptom of that resistance to change.
This is my favorite Star Trek series, I've seen them all, but I never found myself truly invested in the characters in the way I'm invested in this particular crew of characters.
So when the protagonist of the show does a cool thing, that's the show functioning as intended. When the narrative ties up at the end of the season that's the show functioning as intended.
These writers are being very deliberate with their choices, and what I thought were missteps early in the series, all have had payoff so far. I am sure the politics of the Klingons will continue to play a role throughout the future of the series.
|
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
On the other hand.
Mary Sue is a gendered insult levelled primarily at female protagonists. Nobody calls Luke Skywalker, Aragorn or Neo Mary Sue characters. Even when they explicitly have chosen one storylines and are universally loved, are capable of multiple disciplines and powers and don't have any time working hard to learn these skills in the primary text.
So maybe stop using it because then it won't feel like every disagreement is because you're a sexist. Think a bit harder, and make deeper criticism without resorting to lazy, sexist shorthand that has been co-opted by actual sexist jerks.
You might find your talking points don't get derailed by having to pre-emptively defend yourself.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Mary Sue is a gendered insult levelled primarily at female protagonists. Nobody calls Luke Skywalker, Aragorn or Neo Mary Sue characters. Even when they explicitly have chosen one storylines and are universally loved, are capable of multiple disciplines and powers and don't have any time working hard to learn these skills in the primary text.
I apologize as well. No worries we are good.
Actually their is a male equivalent of Mary sue which is lesser known and applied to male characters as well so it's not something that is limited to female characters called Gary Stu. Wolverine in the comics is a Gary Stu. Spock, Kirk and Mccoy the same From now I will use the term favored character. Fans don't like such characters because it feels like they overshadow the others to a significant degree. The writers tend to favor Michael too much and to the detriment of the other characters imo
So when the protagonist of the show does a cool thing, that's the show functioning as intended. When the narrative ties up at the end of the season that's the show functioning as intended.
I agree except once, twice, three times or more it does become annoying to me at least. As I said above it overshadows the other characters and it seems like no one but the favored character can come up with the solutions imo. With a show like STD and similar shows when it's a ensemble cast it's good to change things up every now and then. Even the Orville suffers from the same though to much a lesser degree.
I will say this though too often words like sexist, racist etc are tossed around so much as well that they too lose their meaning.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
@WormysQueue: I agree, that was a great speech. I'm not even saying he couldn't manage it - just that there'd be some significant character development to do.
Actually their is a male equivalent of Mary sue which is lesser known and applied to male characters as well so it's not something that is limited to female characters called Gary Stu. Wolverine in the comics is a Gary Stu. Spock, Kirk and Mccoy the same From now I will use the term favored character. Fans don't like such characters because it feels like they overshadow the others to a significant degree. The writers tend to favor Michael too much and to the detriment of the other characters imo
The term I'd heard was "Marty Stu" - and given that the concept utterly transcends gender to start with, it couldn't matter less in any way whether the name of the concept (which was coined all the way back in 1973) is tagged with a male or female name.
After all, the most famous Mary Sue in the history of literature is male.
Is Michael Burnham a "Mary Sue"? I've never thought about it before last night after I composed my last posts. Frankly, I've always been a little leery of the term itself and the attitude that seems to sometimes reside behind it. It's one thing to call hack writing out for what it is, but just as often people seem to use it simply to dump on the very concept of great/extraordinary/special individuals. I think she's great, for the most part. If there's one thing I hate, though, it's career critics (professional and amateur) who hold imagination and talent in contempt and who actually believe that tearing down the talents of others and telling artists how to be creative, despite having no such talent themselves, is somehow the most profoundly helpful thing anybody can do. There seems to be some of that coming at this show and others from multiple directions, and not one of them is any better for it.
"Never explain your art. People who ask you to do so are idiots. Never explain yourself."
- Les Barany (agent to H. R. Giger)
|
|
So it occurred to me last night, apropos of nothing, that the 'awards ceremony' scene at the end of last episode...well, it was all basically The Wizard of Oz: The fearful Lion (Saru) gets awarded for his courage, the frosty Tin Man (Stamets) gets awarded for his heart, the flaky Scarecrow (Tilly) gets awarded for her brains, and of course Dorothy (Burnham) gets to 'return home' in multiple senses.
|
|
I'd been anticipating, years ago before there was any guarantee of any more good Star Trek, that so long as there were, the next captain would be gay...of course, it didn't quite work out like that,
[tangent] Watching the first episode or three of Enterprise, back in the day, with Archer inviting 'old friend' Tripp to his bedroom to watch a bunch of guys in speedos splash around in a pool, I thought they were going to go there, but apparently not. Instead we got five seasons of the two of them farting around having or not having relationships with catsuit-cheesecake-Vulcan. :) [/tangent]
Ah, but...first ALIEN captain?!? Now THAT'S our new frontier!
Yeah, from a meta standpoint, the Federation should have tons of Andorian, Tellarite, Vulcan, etc. captains (as well as any of these newer aliens being introduced over the years, like Betazoids or Trill or whatever the cyborg crewperson is in Discovery). I'd definitely want to see a Tellarite, in particular, as they've gotten the short end of the stick, characterization wise, IMO.
And yet, from a different meta standpoint, we're still waiting on a Latino captain or an Asian captain (for more than a few episodes, before being killed off and replaced by a white guy, anyway) or a gay Captain. There's a lot of boxes left to tick off, even for a show that broke ground with it's bridge crew including a black woman, an Asian man and a Russian who looked like one of the Monkees.
I suppose there aren't any little blue-skinned kids with antennae watching who will be inspired by the notion that they too could someday be a captain. :)
|
|
There's a lot of boxes left to tick off, even for a show that broke ground with it's bridge crew including a black woman, an Asian man and a Russian who looked like one of the Monkees.
Most of the bridge crew didn't really became "main characters" until the movies, though. During the actual run of the series, most of them were less developed than Nurse Chapel or Yeoman Rand. (Obviously excluding Kirk, Spock, and McCoy...although Scotty also generally got a bit more than the others.)
CBS planning 4 (!) additional Star Trek TV series:
1: A Starfleet Academy show, likely to be ongoing.
2: An animated series.
3: A mini-series to be helmed by Nicholas Meyer, focused on the life and times of Khan.
4: A mini-series set post-TNG/DS9/Voyager, focusing on Picard
The most interesting is the last of these, with CBS rumoured to be prepared to spend big bucks to get Patrick Stewart to return as Picard for one last hurrah, which he may be up for.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
|
CBS planning 4 (!) additional Star Trek TV series:
1: A Starfleet Academy show, likely to be ongoing.
2: An animated series.
3: A mini-series to be helmed by Nicholas Meyer, focused on the life and times of Khan.
4: A mini-series set post-TNG/DS9/Voyager, focusing on PicardThe most interesting is the last of these, with CBS rumoured to be prepared to spend big bucks to get Patrick Stewart to return as Picard for one last hurrah, which he may be up for.
I hadn't heard that the mini-series would be about Picard and actually advance the timeline of the original timeline. That might actually get me to watch.
Any word on if shows 1-3 would be original timeline or movie timeline?
I hadn't heard that the mini-series would be about Picard and actually advance the timeline of the original timeline. That might actually get me to watch.
Any word on if shows 1-3 would be original timeline or movie timeline?
The movie timeline is unavailable to them, as it's owned by Paramount and CBS don't have the rights to it. They have the rights to the previous TV shows, but not the Abramsverse movies. There's also a bit of a question mark over the TOS/TNG movies as well.
If CBS and Viacom re-merge this may not be so much of a problem, but that seems less likely at the moment.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG! TIG!
Ahem...
Star Trek: Discovery season 2 first look (video)
TIG!
Edit: Anson Mount is Captain Christopher Pike. Rebecca Romijn (not in the video) will be playing Number One.
TIG!
Also, Spock won't be in it as "he's on leave." Okay. Avoids a challenging bit of recasting.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Did I spot Tig Notario in the trailer?
Also, Spock won't be in it as "he's on leave." Okay. Avoids a challenging bit of recasting.
Well, apparently he's connected to whatever is going on, so I suppose we're going to see him.
He's been known to resurface , undercover. With repressed emotion, Vulcans make natural spies and secret negotiators.
Are any of the new series going to be broadcast?
He's been known to resurface , undercover. With repressed emotion, Vulcans make natural spies and secret negotiators.
Are any of the new series going to be broadcast?
The series has been a massive success for CBS All Access and drawn huge numbers of new subscribers to the service, so those holding out for it to collapse and ST:D to go to CBS proper are going to be waiting in vain. It's on Netflix in the rest of the world. The DVD/Blu-Ray will be released when Season 2 starts airing, which won't be until next year.
I watched this interesting podcast few days ago, Stamets explains how they created the mycellium drive
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Looks like it's official that a familiar face will be turning up on CBS All Access in another new Star Trek show:
Deadline: "Patrick Stewart To Star In New ‘Star Trek’ Series As Jean-Luc Picard On CBS All Access"
They absolutely must create a re-occurring role for Sir Ian McKellen on this new show.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I didn't want to watch Discovery. The cosmetic changes didn't set well with me. But after some research about why they did them I settled down a bit. Once the assurance that the series will follow established canon finally piqued my curiosity enough to check it out. I'm absolutely in love with it. I have not finished the first season just yet but am close to doing so. I really look forward to Season Two now.
Star Trek: Discovery Season 2 trailer from NYC Comic Con
Season 2 premieres Jan 17, 2019.
Cool. Thanks for the info on the premier date and the terrific trailer!
I'm not sold on the beard yet, but I'm not opposed to it either.
I didn't want to watch Discovery. The cosmetic changes didn't set well with me. But after some research about why they did them I settled down a bit. Once the assurance that the series will follow established canon finally piqued my curiosity enough to check it out. I'm absolutely in love with it. I have not finished the first season just yet but am close to doing so. I really look forward to Season Two now.
I have seen all of the first season and I found the bolded to be a hollow promise. I just watched the trailer for season two, and that, a whole season later, was the first time I saw anything that actually met the goal of the bolded: I saw a hologram of a Klingon battlecruiser that obviously looked like a Klingon battlecruiser.
I'm still looking forward to the new Picard series, but right now, I feel like the Orville (which comes out Dec 30, woot!) fits in with established Trek canon better than Discovery.
New Star Trek: Discovery season 2 trailer Definite spoilers, so consider yourself warned.
I don't like they give away so much in this trailer.
Just saw this week's episode, and it's interesting how they're bringing into Discovery the Control entity of the DS9 relaunch series. I'm waiting to see if it's merely inspired by Uraei or if this is outright that entity (which would be impressive since Uraei is arguably one of the most frightening entities in the entire Star Trek EU). Also, I'm glad they're bringing time travel into this. Hopefully, it'll allow for the Discovery timeline to be distinguished from the Prime timeline.
Just saw this week's episode, and it's interesting how they're bringing into Discovery the Control entity of the DS9 relaunch series. I'm waiting to see if it's merely inspired by Uraei or if this is outright that entity (which would be impressive since Uraei is arguably one of the most frightening entities in the entire Star Trek EU). Also, I'm glad they're bringing time travel into this. Hopefully, it'll allow for the Discovery timeline to be distinguished from the Prime timeline.
It already has been:
So the implication is that although this is still the Primeline, it's been slightly altered. STAR TREK is odd in that it has both parallel universes/timelines AND the ability to change the events in each timeline through time travel (as seen in ENTERPRISE and "Yesterday's Enterprise").
Just saw this week's episode, and it's interesting how they're bringing into Discovery the Control entity of the DS9 relaunch series. I'm waiting to see if it's merely inspired by Uraei or if this is outright that entity (which would be impressive since Uraei is arguably one of the most frightening entities in the entire Star Trek EU). Also, I'm glad they're bringing time travel into this. Hopefully, it'll allow for the Discovery timeline to be distinguished from the Prime timeline.It already has been:
** spoiler omitted **
So the implication is that although this is still the Primeline, it's been slightly altered. STAR TREK is odd in that it has both parallel universes/timelines AND the ability to change the events in each timeline through time travel (as seen in ENTERPRISE and "Yesterday's Enterprise").
Good, that accounts for most of the continuity issues I have, but there's still a big glaring one:
Certainly, we can just say "the Red Angel did it off-screen" (or maybe Future!Control), but I still feel that we need that line of dialogue dropped in-show.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Watched the most recent episode and I had what I believe to be a very obvious question:
Watched the most recent episode and I had what I believe to be a very obvious question:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **Watched the most recent episode and I had what I believe to be a very obvious question:
** spoiler omitted **
But no one even thought to ask the question at all.
Also, I saw the Midnight's Edge video on the Canon/Prime+Kelvin divide and while it answers so much (even if some of it is speculative), damn if it isn't depressing.
** spoiler omitted **Watched the most recent episode and I had what I believe to be a very obvious question:
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Also, I saw the Midnight's Edge video on the Canon/Prime+Kelvin divide and while it answers so much (even if some of it is speculative), damn if it isn't depressing.
I put that down to it being Episode 10 of 15, and we have a few more eps before they might decide to take more serious, last-ditch action.
They just posted the teaser trailer and some background info for STAR TREK: PICARD but then pulled it immediately, which was weird.
He's spent the years since on the family vineyard in France. Something goes down and he is called back to Starfleet, where someone asks him exactly why he left, but he only gives a haunted expression in response.
Another clip shown at a convention depicted Picard talking to someone at Starfleet and was incredulous that they'd never heard of him. In these scenes the Starfleet personnel are wearing uniforms that look like a mix of those from NEMESIS and those from the "25 years in the future" scenes in the ST:TNG finale.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Star Trek: Discovery - Season 3 | NYCC Teaser Trailer, premieres 2020 on CBS All Access.
Star Trek: Short Treks | Q&A Trailer, premiered yesterday
I freaking LOVED Star Trek: Discovery Season 3.
It's by far the strongest season of Discovery and truly drove home what makes Star Trek... Star Trek.
I thought it blew the previous two seasons out of the water, and was a HUGE increase in quality.
Loved it. Loved it. Loved it.
I'm planning to re-watch the whole season sometime soon... and I rarely re-watch shows.
But it doesn't matter what I or a few think, it matters what the ratings are, and the ratings are down. Not "cancel it right now" down but still not good. If season 4 rates like season 3 that'll be the end of the series.
Funny, I’ve looked and looked and I can’t seem to find traditional viewership ratings for any CBS All Access show. There are some announcements about Picard breaking some one day records, and there are some articles about what Disco’s Season One ratings when it aired this fall on traditional CBS. Still nothing about the streaming viewership for Season 1 2 or 3.
It's by far the strongest season of Discovery and truly drove home what makes Star Trek... Star Trek.
I thought it blew the previous two seasons out of the water, and was a HUGE increase in quality.
Absolutely agree with you, definitely feel like Disco finally grew its beard.