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Hi guys, I'm building a minkaien hexmagus for PFS game, and i'm planning to use fallback tactic scroll + foresight wizard + forture crackle + disposable weapon combo (and maybe an emissary familiar if I don't choose Bladebound archtype to Use bit of Luck) to make 1 combat/day superhight crit chance attack.
But in that way i have to spend many GP or an Arcana(gain cl 3+ mending, since i'm using a 3 lb. or 4 lb. weapon) to repair my weapon.
My question is: did the black blade work with Disposable weapon since it's immune to the broken condition ?
I need some more RAW opinion.
Thank you!
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I am fairly sure that this FAQ regarding the Battle Host also applies to the Bladebound Magus:
Battle Host: What exactly does it mean that the battle host’s implement is immune to the broken condition? Can it never be destroyed? Can you use it over and over again with abilities that break your weapon for a benefit?
In this particular instance, what it does is slightly different than the usual meaning of “immune.” It means that the implement suffers no penalties, even if it becomes broken. It can still gain the broken condition, and, it still counts as having the broken condition for the purpose of effects that escalate if you have the broken condition (such as effects that give the broken condition, or destroy the target if it already has the broken condition). As usual, you can’t use an effect that breaks a weapon if it already has the broken condition. An explanation will be included in the next errata.
So you would be able to use disposable weapon with a black blade, and it would suffer no penalty, but you would only be able to use the ability once before repairing the weapon.
Aren't masterwork/magical weapons basically not fragile anymore? I seem to remember reading someplace that they don't have the drawbacks.
If the item no longer suffers the drawbacks of being fragile, it wouldn't be able to be used in abilities that would require fragile weapons essentially.
Hi guys, I'm building a minkaien hexmagus for PFS game, and i'm planning to use fallback tactic scroll + foresight wizard + forture crackle + disposable weapon comboWhat is disposable weapon and what's it's place in your strategy?
Keep also on mind that RAW doesn't answer all questions, and corner case builds are subject to table variation in PFS when you're bending the edge of text.
Disposable weapon is a feat, the rest of it minus foresight seems to be mis-spellings, shorthand for things or new stuff that didn't pop up results on the PRD.
Magic weapons lose the fragile quality. The blackblade is always a magical weapon. So it can never be fragile and therefore never work with Disposable Weapon.
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If what i remenbered is right, magic weapon / mwk weapon DO NOT LOSE the fragile quality, they only lose the drawback of fragile weapon (broken on naturel 1). To totally lose the fragile quality, you need to MAGICALLY STRENGHTEN the weapon, which is, according to UE, with a separate GP cost (and even larger than mwk price)
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I am fairly sure that this FAQ regarding the Battle Host also applies to the Bladebound Magus:
So you would be able to use disposable weapon with a black blade, and it would suffer no penalty, but you would only be able to use the ability once before repairing the weapon.Battle Host: What exactly does it mean that the battle host’s implement is immune to the broken condition? Can it never be destroyed? Can you use it over and over again with abilities that break your weapon for a benefit?
In this particular instance, what it does is slightly different than the usual meaning of “immune.” It means that the implement suffers no penalties, even if it becomes broken. It can still gain the broken condition, and, it still counts as having the broken condition for the purpose of effects that escalate if you have the broken condition (such as effects that give the broken condition, or destroy the target if it already has the broken condition). As usual, you can’t use an effect that breaks a weapon if it already has the broken condition. An explanation will be included in the next errata.
Thank you !
So I will choose familiar instead of black blade since it can not auto-repair...To skylancer:
Sorry for i misspelled some words. "Forture crackle" should be "fortune hex + crackle hex", and the scoll should be "fallback strategie"(my book is not with me for the moment), Torag reroll spell in Inner Sea Gods. The build is based on multiple roll + auto crit confirm with spell strike.
If what i remenbered is right, magic weapon / mwk weapon DO NOT LOSE the fragile quality, they only lose the drawback of fragile weapon (broken on naturel 1). To totally lose the fragile quality, you need to MAGICALLY STRENGHTEN the weapon, which is, according to UE, with a separate GP cost (and even larger than mwk price)
"Fragile" is a drawback, often due to material used in creation of said item. Making an item masterwork or magical definitely removes the drawback from the item as per the Fragile write up on the PRD.
I did a search for Fragile on the PRD and only got 4 pages of results back, the dogslicer write up even explicitly stated if it was masterwork it lost the Fragile quality.
I skimmed through the rest and saw no mention of anything above/beyond mechanically which would contradict the two mentions of the quality being lost if the weapon is made masterwork or magical. The dogslicer being one of (if not the earliest) fragile weapon even sets the precedent of the quality being lost. UE has been out long enough that anything should be in the PRD by now. What rules are you referring to?
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Making an item masterwork or magical definitely removes the drawback from the item as per the Fragile write up on the PRD.
I did a search for Fragile on the PRD and only got 4 pages of results back, the dogslicer write up even explicitly stated if it was masterwork it lost the Fragile quality.
Citation would be helpful here:
Fragile: Fragile weapons and armor cannot take the beating that sturdier weapons can. A fragile weapon gains the broken condition if the wielder rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll with the weapon. If a fragile weapon is already broken, the roll of a natural 1 destroys it instead.
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Masterwork and magical fragile weapons and armor lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description or the special material description.
I'd forgotten this rule because Iannis is correct that it is somewhat redundant with magical strengthening, which generally applies to primitive materials. For example:
Bone armor has hardness 5 and has the fragile armor quality. Masterwork bone armor also has the fragile quality, but magic bone armor does not. The armor/shield bonus of bone armor is reduced by 1, but in the case of studded leather, the armor check penalty is also reduced by 1 (to 0). Magically strengthened bone does not have the fragile quality or reduced armor/shield bonus.
Since magical strengthening is very expensive (100gp/lb) it's usually a better deal just to make the item masterwork or magic - though most materials give a small extra benefit to strengthening like the example's slightly better armour stats.
It's notable that bone does provide an exception to the usual rule that masterwork items are not fragile, but magic bone still loses the fragile condition.
So yes, being immune to the broken condition doesn't prevent the Black Blade from working with Disposable Weapon, but being a magic weapon will unless you find an unusual way to get a fragile magic weapon.
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It's notable that bone does provide an exception to the usual rule that masterwork items are not fragile, but magic bone still loses the fragile condition.
Thx for your citation, but according to the description of other material, bone could be an exception - for example, such "magic .. does not have the fragile quality" is not in the obsidian paragrah. Could we assume that other material, such as obsidian, don't lose the fragile quality even when they are magic weapon? In fact, in late game, I really need spellstore + auto crit to garantee my boss fight capacity.
What i'm planning to use is (even I don't take blackblade archtype) magic obsidian katana (with scabbard of vigor, and cast + move + free deliver trick). I will add the mending spell in magus spelllist through magus arcana, so I can repair them for free.
In easier combat, I would use mwk darkwood tepoztopilli (with reach, so I can avoid AO/concentration when spell strike 5ft-reach enemy). So for the katana, "One draw, one killed."
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Citation would be helpful here:
Fragile: Fragile weapons and armor cannot take the beating that sturdier weapons can. A fragile weapon gains the broken condition if the wielder rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll with the weapon. If a fragile weapon is already broken, the roll of a natural 1 destroys it instead.
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Masterwork and magical fragile weapons and armor lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description or the special material description.
My opinion is, "lack these flaws" means "do not auto broken on a nature 1", but not "lose the fragile quality". That might be the key of the question.
My opinion is, "lack these flaws" means "do not auto broken on a nature 1", but not "lose the fragile quality". That might be the key of the question.Citation would be helpful here:
Fragile: Fragile weapons and armor cannot take the beating that sturdier weapons can. A fragile weapon gains the broken condition if the wielder rolls a natural 1 on an attack roll with the weapon. If a fragile weapon is already broken, the roll of a natural 1 destroys it instead.
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Masterwork and magical fragile weapons and armor lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description or the special material description.
"Fragile" is a reference to a common suite of rules. It is a name given to these rules to simplify writing and save word count.
Fragile is in no way a benefit or bonus. It is comprised completely of flaws or detrimental effects.
By stating the flaws are removed, the entire reference is removed. What makes the weapon "fragile" if not the flaws? As I pointed out as well, the precedent was set by the dogslicer. By making one masterwork the flaws were removed. And to be magical, a weapon needs to be masterwork first.
The general rule is Fragile goes bye-bye when the item is made masterwork or magical, unless otherwise stated. Like Bone. It would be like walking into a null magic field and saying your weapon is still able to bypass DR/magic. The field removes magic, so the weapon is not able to deal "magical" damage. For good or bad, it isn't part of the equation anymore.
Get Critical Focus instead and call it a day? With so many rounds wasted stocking up rerolls you could have just full-attacked him to death.
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Citation would be helpful here:
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Masterwork and magical fragile weapons and armor lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description or the special material description.
Uhh.. Just wait a moment. Where comes this "magical FRAGILE weapons" if they don't have the fragile quality?
I should stand on my opinion by this.
Ok...
So another question, did arcane pool enchancement remove fragile?
No, arcane pool granted explicitly granted the weapon an enhancement bonus (which also allows it to bypass DR/magic). It doesn't actually make the weapon magical, just allows it to act like one.
Citation would be helpful here:
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Masterwork and magical fragile weapons and armor lack these flaws unless otherwise noted in the item description or the special material description.
Uhh.. Just wait a moment. Where comes this "magical FRAGILE weapons" if they don't have the fragile quality?
I should stand on my opinion by this.
The common English language says "Hello".
Without specifically calling out "fragile" the rules could be saying any and all flaws were removed. By specifically calling out that "fragile" is the type of flaw removed there is no confusion.
Also, when in an anti magic or null magic field, or when the weapon is dispelled it could matter if the item was fragile prior.
That statement in no way proves your opinion. It clarifies what is removed and why. So if masterwork or magical properties were removed, the Fragile flaws would return.