7-09 Blakros Connection


GM Discussion

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Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I'm super excited to run this next week. From reading it, this seems to be the most interesting "go research in a library" module that I've ever seen.

I was brainstorming some ways of trying to emulate the feel of exploring through a weird library while running, and I came up with this:

Grab a bunch of dummy Magic cards and opaque sleeves. Sleeve the cards backwards so that all that's showing is the Magic card back. Sleeve about 50 of these. For each bit of knowledge, I'll print it out magic-card sized and put it in a sleeve. Then I can stack the deck so that when the primary researcher decreases the kp by X amount, they flip over X cards. The cards with the knowledge written on them will be strategically placed in the deck so that when the right number of cards/kp are left, the person flipping the cards gets the knowledge. For the knowledge that requires a skill check, I can have two slips of paper in the sleeve - one before and one after the skill check.

I'll have to have the PCs' individual secrets outside since a magic-card sized paper isn't that big to write on, but that should be fine. This should be relatively cheap to put together, especially since I used to be addicted to Magic and therefore have a ton of cards hiding around. I hope that this provides a bit of suspense on the researching and also puts a bit more focus on it, since it does try to be the central focus of the scenario.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

That's an excellent visualization tool for research! I love seeing GMs go the extra mile like that. I'd love to hear how the "secrets" pet goes over with your players, too. My playtest group had a ton of fun with that.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

What map pack is the first map from? It's clearly not from Waterfront.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco

James McTeague wrote:
What map pack is the first map from? It's clearly not from Waterfront.

Finally found it - the old Temples map pack.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dan Simons wrote:
James McTeague wrote:
What map pack is the first map from? It's clearly not from Waterfront.
Finally found it - the old Temples map pack.

Ah, excellent. Thanks. Now to see if I own that one.

Also, I posted the cards I made. Also included are item cards since there's a lot of items the PCs can get in the middle of the scenario that are actually useful. (and I had the program open already, so it wasn't that much more effort)

Silver Crusade 3/5

I have read the scenario, and am excited to run it next Tuesday. Overall the fluff seems very nice, and though I'm kinda afraid of some of the encounters at least the last one is kinda helped by the environment.

One thing that kinda annoyed me was that the monster on the cover does not have its picture repeated in the scenario, so I have no idea which one it is. I'm guessing the high-tier boss based on description text though.

Oh and also, if the other GMs are interested in a bit more details about the Criers, it can be found in Occult Mysteries. Though I actually think it would have been nicer for them to remain a mystery even to the GMs, I have hunch they will appear in person later on this season. (If not, I'll be sorely disappointed). Occult Mysteries also gives nice ideas about the kinds of books we could describe the characters finding in the archives, so I still recommend reading it.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

The monster on the cover is the giant feargaunt from the final encounter higher-tier.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Uh guys, there's no DC for the ritual to go into dreamland.

Silver Crusade 3/5

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James McTeague wrote:
Uh guys, there's no DC for the ritual to go into dreamland.

Ran this yesterday (high tier), and realized the same thing. They rolled over 30 anyway (each time), so I decided they were good to go.

All in all the party was quite well-suited for this (ranger, two oracles, wizard, slayer and alchemist). They absolutely decimated the researches. Though the boss was only won without anyone dying because one of the oracles pulled of some nice dreamscape shenanigans and the wizard was a magic missile specialist.

One other problem I realized. When researching in Forae Logos, the skills used are all trained-only. My party didn't have problems here, but what about one where no one has them? The DC to find the secret door without research is high enough that even taking a twenty and allowing aid anothers from everyone might not find it.

All in all fun, but has a serious risk on things dragging on in the fights if the characters aren't specialized to counter invisibility and incorporeality. This is also big on mysteries, so there is a fine line in deciding how much to tell the players about the various mechanics and conditions (Primal magic, how much is real in the Dimension of Dreams, etc.) going on to keep them from getting frustrated but keeping things exciting.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

And about the Traitor's Lodge connection. I decided against taking my scholarly magus along in favor of party balance. If I'd known about her old acquintance Aslynn being featured...

Well, at least the boss was challenging this way. Ghost salt makes things so easy for archers.

Shadow Lodge 5/5

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So for the DC on the ritual to go into dreamland. I did some reading in the Occult book and it seems that the DCs listed there for their examples are very much in-line for the DCs posted on the research checks for the two tiers. So that's where I'd stick until we hear otherwise (so DC 25 and 30 I believe).

Second Seekers (Luwazi Elsebo) 5/55/5

I'm glad that other people are confirming what I decided to do when I ran this on Saturday. During my initial prep I had only scanned the scenario, so I missed the fact that the Memory Pool ritual did not include DC's. So as the players got to that portion and I started looking for the DC's on the checks I kind of panicked. I Decided to go with a DC 25 (low tier) and would have used 30 for high tier.

Otherwise this was a fun scenario, though very challenging, lots of new rules from the Occult book and little things to remember during each encounter.

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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That's weird, I included DCs in my final turnover to John. Let me reach out to him and see if he can get this fixed.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ****

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Can animal companions participate in the dreamland ritual?

4/5 *

How is the nightmare curse from the animate dream supposed to work? Like a poison?

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Like all curses, except this one can be removed by just rolling really well. 1d4 Wis will eventually put you unconscious and unable to take care of yourself so the condition must be resolved at the end of the session.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

Thankfully I had just applied my Personal Physician and improved it before playing this and getting hit with the nightmare curse. :)

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Unfortunately, for everyone else, the animate dream is a seriously under-cr'd monster. Its challenge is only offset by the ubiquitousness of ghost salt and the power of dedicated archers in PF.

Seriously, dc 21 will save...

The Exchange 4/5

I think its difficulty is also offset by the impossible feats. Also its bleed does not carry over from the fight (along with any other harm) that comes to the pc's.

4/5 *

How are people eating in area B while they are doing research? Are we assuming they're allowed to come out after 8 hours?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Yeah, ghostbane dirge is a spell that's not too hard to replicate with the impossible spell rules. Also from my experience with the time we ran this at Redcap's, we had multiple people ask if they could make their weapons ghost touch (went with a level 3 spell) or go for broke with ectoplasmic flame strikes. That plus the fact that you don't actually die means that the combat should be a bit hard.

The major thing that screws people up is that some people try to deal with incorporeals by assuming that they're undead, but more and more Paizo has been creating non-undead incorporeal creatures, which throws that paradigm off.

(Best item - holy weapon balm from ACG.)

Shadow Lodge 4/5 *** Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant

We tried mass ghostbane dirge twice and neither time it worked. They kept saving or it didn't get past the dream's SR. :( Thankfully I had a couple of things that worked against them. Holy weapon balm being one of them. :)

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

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Quote:
Can animal companions participate in the dreamland ritual?

Not an official answer, but it was my intention that you should be able to bring your animal companions/familiars/eidolons/etc along for this journey. I don't want anyone losing a huge class feature because they're having Little Nemo's adventure in Dreamland.

Also, I'm curious to see how the Secrets mechanic is playing with different groups. In the playtests I ran my players loved having a little fun with it, but I know every group is different. I'd love to hear some feedback :)

Lantern Lodge RPG Superstar 2014 Top 4

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Ross Tait wrote:
How are people eating in area B while they are doing research? Are we assuming they're allowed to come out after 8 hours?

While it doesn't specifically state it, I'd allow people to come and go once per day from Area B, if they don't have rations/supplies of their own. It's not hard to imagine the archivist would eventually send someone to see if the PCs died a fiery death and/or if they need snacks, I suppose. If you have time in your scenario, it might also be a good moment to have the PCs report in and say that the threats from the planar incursion have been dealt with, mostly.

Silver Crusade 4/5 5/55/55/5 RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8

My bloatmage made sure to secure rations before heading in.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Our ex-uni group sent someone for Tian and latte.

The Exchange 4/5

How would long duration buffs cast before going into dreamland work out? I.e mage armor

Also how about your gear you had with you before you went into dreamland (I'm assuming everything stays on you, else it will seriously nerf fighters who dumped their cha - they can't even summon up weapons and armor).

Hoe are your standard spells and abilities treated in dreamland, as per normal, except not consumed when you wake up?

Dark Archive 5/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Captain, Germany—Rhein Main South

Yesterday we had a slot 0 and there were some questions:

In area B: If you use wands or scrolls do you use the casterlevel of the item to determine the concentration for the primal effect?

In area C: If you attempt an impossible Feat, what is the DC if you emulate a spell?
Is it determined like an Item (Minimum Attribute/CL)?

And one of my players had the idea to get an Stave with highlevel spells, should that be permitted (because you cant get spells with level 7+?

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

As the player in question, I just checked in the current guide:

Guide to Organized Play wrote:


Potions, Scrolls, and Wands
All potions, scrolls, wands, and other consumables are
made by clerics, druids, or wizards in Pathfinder Society
Organized Play. The only exceptions are spells that are not
on the cleric, druid, or wizard spell list. For example, a
scroll of lesser restoration must be purchased as a 2nd-level
scroll off the cleric spell list and may not be purchased as
a 1st-level scroll off the paladin spell list. If a spell appears
at different levels on two different lists, use the lower level
spell to determine cost. As an example, poison would be
priced as a 3rd-level druid spell instead of a 4th-level cleric
spell. All potions, scrolls, and wands are available only at
the minimum caster level unless found at a higher caster
level on a Chronicle sheet.
For the sake of simplicity, there is no difference between
an arcane and divine scroll or wand. Thus a bard and cleric
may both use the same scroll of cure moderate wounds.
Finally, scrolls of spells of 7th level or higher are not
permitted for characters below level 12 unless you gain access
to them on a Chronicle sheet that specifically lists them.

Character apparently can legally purchase staffs with spells of 7th level or higher, but unless they are a staff magus or have a similar ability, recharging them could be an issue.

The adventure limits it to effects below level 7, but in theory players could try to dream up a number of items, things like a staff of power, a +10 weapon, a metamagic rod of quicken spell ...

EDIT: A retributive strike with a staff of power could end the final encounter of the BBEG fails his save ^^

Shadow Lodge 5/5

Robert Brookes wrote:
Also, I'm curious to see how the Secrets mechanic is playing with different groups. In the playtests I ran my players loved having a little fun with it, but I know every group is different. I'd love to hear some feedback :)

Honestly, it's a little clunky. I loved it thematically, but the mechanic of inserting it into the dreamland didn't work all that well. So while the players did enjoy giving a little detail of their characters, it felt like a stumble in the pace. This was mainly due to the way it inserted things into one person's visions, where they get something that they then need to hand off to somebody else.

Still trying to find a better mechanic for this one.

2/5 *

Although my group entered some really cool secrets, they were never used in my run. /cry

4/5 5/55/5 * RPG Superstar 2015 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16

I'm a little confused how the very last treasure entry works. Should we cross the other items off the PCs' Chronicle sheets, and limit the selected item to 1? Do the PCs need to purchase the item if it's a gift?

Dark Archive 4/5 5/55/5 ****

Christopher Wasko wrote:
I'm a little confused how the very last treasure entry works. Should we cross the other items off the PCs' Chronicle sheets, and limit the selected item to 1? Do the PCs need to purchase the item if it's a gift?

My reading was that it was a choice of having one of them available on for purchase on the chronicle sheet, with the others being crossed out. It shouldn't matter that much for a regular campaign game, as most of the items should be available via Fame by the levels of the scenario. It's definitely something that gives access to a normally non-accessible interesting item for Core Campaign though.

Grand Lodge 4/5 ** Venture-Agent, Pennsylvania—York

I had the same question regarding the last treasure entry It says specifically that the treasure is rewarded, and that they can only choose one, but they must purchase it...

Rewarded with an item, and having to purchase it are two very different things. I'm running this two hours from now and was hoping we had something solid as far as a ruling on this.

Ah well, I guess I'll be winging it as per usual. :p

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ***

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Basically they get the to choose one item from the list and cross off the rest from their chronicle sheet - you definitely don't get a free item whose cost rivals the amount of gold you get on the chronicle sheet.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, United Kingdom—England—Coventry

I'm confused - what last treasure entry are you talking about ?
All I see is

spoiler:
Hearthstone of the Wronged.

Do all players get that or only players who played/selected as GM

Serpent's Rise:
322
in Seprent's Rise ?

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ***** Venture-Captain, United Kingdom—England—Coventry

Ignore my question about last treasure item - just read the last page of the scenario - it isn't made clear on the chronicle :-)

Grand Lodge 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Regarding the Heartstone, since it's described as an "amulet", can it become a Wizard's bonded item? My Elf Eldritch Knight, who in my head has a rivalry with the Elf 322, would love to make it his.

I just see that the Chronicle lists the item as having a "discounted price" of 8000gp. Would making it a bonded item still cost half as much?

4/5

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James McTeague wrote:


Also, I posted the cards I made.

I've printed and assembled these cards (using 2 decks of generic playing cards instead of magic cards) and can't wait to use them this Saturday!

Thank you so much!

4/5 *

Our group really enjoyed the secret aspect. The GM flagged it for us in advance, in a vague way - he reminded us to think about our PC's background, previous scenarios, and some secrets, and everyone came prepared, even the folks who usually don't go much beyond a name and stats. What a great in-game way to encourage character development.

We were all impressed with ourselves when we managed to use the impossible feats to give ourselves stoneskin. Luckily, one guy had enough left to give us a mass ghostbane dirge, which the little guys failed.

The cards and the research rules really drew people into the story, putting the clues together after each one. Only issue was that one PC just destroyed the DCs, and so we got the cards almost all at once (usually two batches).

Can't wait to run this one now!

Grand Lodge 3/5

GMed this one last might (with GM Lamplighter as one of the players!) Definitively one of my favourite ones to GM so far. Here are some thoughts:

Random thoughts/comments:
1. The first encounter took a really long time. Invisibility + confusion + memory lapse + teleport + difficult environment making lots of spells impossible to use = dragging out the fight. The first encounter was, in my humble opinion, the weakest part of the scenario because of the time it took (and I didn't even use some options like summoning another devil!) I would recommend doing a few shenannigans at first and then just attack with the baddies to get the fight over with.

2. New mechanics/subsystem takes time to explain to the players: research, wild magic, impossible feats in the dreamscape, etc. This was also a factor timewise.

3. I REALLY liked the "secrets" part of the scenario, but I am not sure how PFS does it justice, especially if you play with people for the first time. When I played it, most players were like "Who cares about the fact that you're a former convict and you assumed the identity of a pathfinder who just died". My backstory/secret fell flat. When I GMed it, some of the players had really cool secrets, most characters "denied" what the others could see. With a more stable group and a more time to spare, it think it'd make it more interesting.

4. Prep-wise, there was a lot of new mechanics to learn, new occult options, etc. which made it harder than the standard scenario. The content found on PFSPREP is AMAZING! I'd say it is mandatory is visit the site before GMing this one to cut down on prep time (especially with 2 unique maps - which should be prepared in advance and not drawn on the spot to save some time).

5. My group probably had an average charisma score of 14-16 (paladin, halflings, gnome, sorcerer!) so it was a bit easier in the dreamscape. I've heard of a group with lots of charisma dump stats so the last fight was really quick and brutal. I LOVE the fact that it shows how bad dump stats can be. Good job on that one!

6. Storywise, my players absolutely LOVED it! 322 is a really interesting character and some many players were in admiration of her backstory (I was as a GM as well!) Excellent job with the story. I could see how it would bore some players that aren't interested in anything else but killing stuff.

7. The investigator in my group decimated the research part of the scenario (like Lamplighter said). The friendly rivalry didn't happen, because of lack of time and also because the players semeed mostly happy with succeeding as a group. While some knowledgable characters wanted to be more useful, it helped me cut down on research time, which helped run the scenario faster.

8. Fight-wise, I wasn't able to properly run the last fight because of the time crunch. I could see how ill-omen + phantasmal killer would be an interesting combo! The charisma damage can be VERY lethal if you concentrate your attacks on individual players. The aftermath of the fight was done in like 2 minutes (unfortunately). I wish I had more time to let the players talk to the Night Hag. This is supposed to be the highlight of the scenario in my opinion. Make sure you keep some time to run the conversation properly and to report back to Shaine after.

1/5 Contributor

Dan Simons wrote:
James McTeague wrote:
What map pack is the first map from? It's clearly not from Waterfront.
Finally found it - the old Temples map pack.

Hey, thanks! I came looking for an answer on the message boards and found it presto easy. And that pack is still available, even.

I'm going to be running this at CincyCon, and I'm doubly glad to have found this thread because of the ritual DC issue raised upstream. Did that ever get resolved?

*

Has anybody had any luck printing out the maps in this scenario? I have looked at PosteRazor, and the map does not look very good. And I wanted to separate the two parts on page 30 of the scenario to take to Staples, but I am not able to cut the page to make things easier for me. The scenario looks like fun otherwise.

*

JamesH wrote:
Has anybody had any luck printing out the maps in this scenario? I have looked at PosteRazor, and the map does not look very good. And I wanted to separate the two parts on page 30 of the scenario to take to Staples, but I am not able to cut the page to make things easier for me. The scenario looks like fun otherwise.

I'll most likely take the images to Staples to make the maps, but I was able to isolate the images with IrfanView (after I extracted the page in a format that IrfanView was able to handle), and then a quick edit to get rid of the parts that I did not need, and I got the maps. Now to make them usable for minis...

Paizo Employee 4/5 Developer

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James McTeague wrote:
Uh guys, there's no DC for the ritual to go into dreamland.

That was definitely in the original turnover, and it seems that while rewording that section I set the numbers aside and never placed them back in.

Please use DC 20 in Subtier 5–6 and DC 25 in Subtier 8–9.

The Exchange 2/5 ****

I'm running this tomorrow with my core group, filling in for our usual GM. I'm really excited that I get to learn some secrets about my companions I have been running the Emerald Spire with, while they don't get to learn about mine (Muahaha!).

A question though, when a PC dies in the dreamscape they wake up, but if someone were to use an impossible feat to cast Resurrection, would you say the spell fails and let them waste it, or just say nothing happens and let them keep the feat? I guess it would probably be easier if their body disappears as soon as they die, preventing someone from trying it, but what do you think?

Also, would it be too brutal if I led the PCs to believe they had died for real, but once they all escape the dream they find out they're still alive? I think it would make them fight harder in the final encounter if they thought if they die in the dream, they die in real life.

4/5 5/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Finland—Tampere

Kairuciant wrote:

I'm running this tomorrow with my core group, filling in for our usual GM. I'm really excited that I get to learn some secrets about my companions I have been running the Emerald Spire with, while they don't get to learn about mine (Muahaha!).

A question though, when a PC dies in the dreamscape they wake up, but if someone were to use an impossible feat to cast Resurrection, would you say the spell fails and let them waste it, or just say nothing happens and let them keep the feat? I guess it would probably be easier if their body disappears as soon as they die, preventing someone from trying it, but what do you think?

Also, would it be too brutal if I led the PCs to believe they had died for real, but once they all escape the dream they find out they're still alive? I think it would make them fight harder in the final encounter if they thought if they die in the dream, they die in real life.

It definitely runs the risk of aggravating players if you don't tell them beforehand. There's another high-tier (7-11) scenario that has a dreamscape fight like this one, and in that one, the opponent starts the battle by casting weird. One of the PCs got caught in it and their player nearly walked out of the game in outrage due to "impossibly unfair tactics". It took a moment for me to calm him down and reassure him that everything would be okay in a moment.

If you know your players and can trust them to not metagame, tell them that their characters will be fine, but the characters themselves don't know that. If they understand the situation, they'll play like their characters are in mortal peril like they believe they are.

3/5

Research Question: Research take 8 uninterrupted hours. Does this mean that if the group can research for two 8-hour periods, then they get two attempts per day? If not, can the group split into two research teams one researching in the morning, the other in the evening? Or worse, is this a complete railroad job and the group is only allowed at most one success per day?

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 *** Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha

Research rules wrote:
Finally, this adventure assumes that the PCs are able to research for one 8-hour period per day for the purpose of calculating the adventure’s secondary success conditions. If the PCs have some special ability to remain awake and attentive for extraordinary lengths of time, treat this instead as a creative solution that can grant a bonus on the Research check (see below).

No, they would not get two attempts per day. Remember that at most 3 PCs can make/aid in one attempt. The party *can* split into two teams that research independently, and the higher check would apply.

It's not a railroad job, so much as a balancing factor. You can justify it as PCs needing to eat, sleep and recover outside of those 8 hours. Research is hard, draining work. And remember, too, that degrees of success matter.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Swiftbrook wrote:

Research Question: Research take 8 uninterrupted hours. Does this mean that if the group can research for two 8-hour periods, then they get two attempts per day? If not, can the group split into two research teams one researching in the morning, the other in the evening? Or worse, is this a complete railroad job and the group is only allowed at most one success per day?

Pathfinder has very humane labour policies for the quasi-medieval setting. After 8 hours of any kind of work you're basically tired and done with that activity for the day. Consider:

- Spellcasters can spend only 8 hours per day crafting.
- More than 8 hours of overland travel is fatiguing.

Now those things don't really say you can't then turn around and do something else for 8 hours, although it's somewhat implied.

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