Slayers get 1 less feat than a fighter does in the first 11 levels I think. And then gets sneak attack on top of that and their studied target kicks in immediately if they ever flank and get sneak attack. and at lv7 it's a swift, meaning you can turn it on without interfering with anything.
Or a ranger fits the bill better too than a fighter.
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If you sneak attack you can activate studied target as an immediate action instead of a move action. Also thanks to slayer talents, you have almost as many bonus feats as a fighter. Ranger Combat Style for three free feats you don't need to meet prerequisites for, Weapon Training for free weapon focus, and Combat Training for any one combat feat.Slayer still works. It's an action, though. Can't I just go straight to the fighting?
I like this.
So, let's compare an Unbreakable Fighter level-by-level with a Slayer. How are they similar? How are they different? In both cases, they get EWP: BS for free.
OP, do you have any extra guidelines as to how your campaign's like? What levels are we focusing on? What do you find to be your greatest challenges/difficulties? What are the wealth levels like?
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Slayers get 1 less feat than a fighter does in the first 11 levels I think. And then gets sneak attack on top of that and their studied target kicks in immediately if they ever flank and get sneak attack. and at lv7 it's a swift, meaning you can turn it on without interfering with anything.
Or a ranger fits the bill better too than a fighter.
Level 7 is WAY too late. So many campaigns end before that ever happens. But the whole "activate on sneak attack" takes away some of that problem, though, and is available from level 1.
Slayer can also Swift (or Move) Study at 7; the level after you get iterative attacks (in addition to when you Sneak Attack).
The ninja was real.
So we end up with a fast fighter with a couple more hit points and worse armor, or a fighter who trades his feats for sneak attack. Doesn't sound like a winning combo to me.
Slayer is a Fighter with better skill list, skill points, better saves and faster access to feats because of Ranger Fighting Style.
Endurance, maybe, but Mithril Full Plate costs like 12,000gp. There is a kind of magic Full Plate that puts itself on: Tesselating Plate, I think.
I wouldn't be that interested in Cleave if I were using 1 handed weapons. I'd get 2 weapon early.
restful Armor is cheaper. If you don't get anything else from mithril (depends on your DEX), just to sleep is easier to get restful
and do big damage to the enemy while not worrying about out-of-combat usefulness (which can be mostly managed by statless roleplay anyway)?
Not sure how this could work. Roleolaying is playing a role. You can do that without rolling dice, but if you are roleplaying a char with 0 diplomacy, 0 bluff, you shouldn't spend the evening saying wordplays, charming women, and doing clever sentences to convibce people, just like if your char has int 10 abd no skill ranks in science, he shouldn't apply rules of pressure, fluid mechanics, or craft gunpowder, just becsuse you as a player can. Otherwise you aren't playing a role
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Not sure how this could work. Roleolaying is playing a role. You can do that without rolling dice, but if you are roleplaying a char with 0 diplomacy, 0 bluff, you shouldn't spend the evening saying wordplays, charming women, and doing clever sentences to convibce people, just like if your char has int 10 abd no skill ranks in science, he shouldn't apply rules of pressure, fluid mechanics, or craft gunpowder, just becsuse you as a player can. Otherwise you aren't playing a role
and do big damage to the enemy while not worrying about out-of-combat usefulness (which can be mostly managed by statless roleplay anyway)?
Well, we already know his stat array. He's got a 13 Charisma, and he can pick up Diplomacy as a class skill with a trait. So no matter what his class is, that's how that score will go. I don't think any of the martial classes give a bonus for Diplomacy, so it's not a class issue. (other than potentially saving a trait)
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Well how can I remain relevant because I'm pretty settled on fighter, I was looking forward to wearing full plate
Well my current stat spread is 18,12,14,10,14,13 we are using automatic bonus progression and I'm making his mental bonus cha so he'll have 16 cha with a trait to get diplomacy my character is the face of the party, so with the backstory I'm having he's got nobility in his blood I'm building a character who is not dumb (that stereotypical barbarian) who is brave and heroic, honestly if I didn't have this character in mind id be playing a barbarian hands down no questions asked.
Okay, so we know the following:
He's human. Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 13. He's using a bastard sword he gets proficiency in for free. He's picking up a Diplomacy trait, and his Charisma will be increasing (What's automatic bonus progression? I haven't heard of that.) He wants to wear full plate.
He's thinking of an unbreakable fighter. We've got a bunch of other ideas floating around.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, let's see your builds. You can't change race or ability scores. You have to use a bastard sword. You have to wear full plate. But the class remains open.
All that stuff I said before about no rage and no spells? Gone. But spending the first few rounds buffing will be a strike against your build.
Show us all how your build idea rocks.
Automática bonus progresion is an unchained thing. You can't buy the Big Six Magic items, but you get extra enhancement, deflection, and resistance bonus to your abilities, weapon and Armor. So I guess he's going to raise the Cha.
Unbreakable fighter males a good mix with barbarian if you are ok with using Rage. Urbsn barbarian is a good choice for the stated goals I think.
The Eldritch Guardian archetype offers the fighter a lot if you are ok with having a mauler familiar sidekick.
Just to point out, Weapon Training plus Weapon Specialization & etc doesn't fare any worse that Studied Target. Throw on Gloves of Dueling and it does considerably better. Slayer is great, and much better for some builds, but I'm not sure exactly why people think it completely replaces Fighter.
Just to point out, Weapon Training plus Weapon Specialization & etc doesn't fare any worse that Studied Target. Throw on Gloves of Dueling and it does considerably better. Slayer is great, and much better for some builds, but I'm not sure exactly why people think it completely replaces Fighter.
Because you can be disarmed or sundered?
Studied combat works for ranged as well, fighters have to wait till lv9 to weapon training their backup bow, and because it only misses out on 1 feat but gets to bypass pre-reqs for 3 of them, gets 6+int skills per level with nice class skills, has reflex as a good save and it gets sneak attack on top of everything.
Just to point out, Weapon Training plus Weapon Specialization & etc doesn't fare any worse that Studied Target. Throw on Gloves of Dueling and it does considerably better. Slayer is great, and much better for some builds, but I'm not sure exactly why people think it completely replaces Fighter.
Like most other "fighter replacements", it's because the out of combat utility. If the only thing you care for a particular Char is combat, fighter is ok. If you want something else, including having skills, other classes (like slayer) gives you similar combat prowess, but much more things to do when you don't swing your sword.
Barbarian, bloodrager, slayer.
Fighter doesn't get a damage bonus until lv4.
A fighter unbuffed is basically just a warrior with extra feats.
A fighter gets slow accuracy and damage boost and you'd need to waste dex for some levels if you want any benefit from armor training without magic.
A fighter is out if he fails his save against a large portion of spells.
A fighter doesn't really do "big damage" he does consistent damage.Now if you change it to an Eldritch Guardian mutation warrior you do a bit better, but then you're buffing yourself.
Barbarian/Bloodrager who never rages? I don't want to manage rage. Nope, that fails.
Slayer still works. It's an action, though. Can't I just go straight to the fighting?
So we end up with a fast fighter with a couple more hit points and worse armor, or a fighter who trades his feats for sneak attack. Doesn't sound like a winning combo to me.
Actually, since Slayer characters get access to ranger styles they end up with the same number of feats (effectively) by 10th level. Plus sneak attack.
(This includes Combat Trick and Weapon Focus both coming from talents)
Just to point out, Weapon Training plus Weapon Specialization & etc doesn't fare any worse that Studied Target. Throw on Gloves of Dueling and it does considerably better. Slayer is great, and much better for some builds, but I'm not sure exactly why people think it completely replaces Fighter.
While not as simple as the gloves of dueling, slayers have bloodstained gloves and lenses of the predators gaze to boost the studied target bonus. And the slayers robe can apply the bonus to saves against the studied target.
While not as simple as the gloves of dueling, slayers have bloodstained gloves and lenses of the predators gaze to boost the studied target bonus. And the slayers robe can apply the bonus to saves against the studied target.
Oh boy, didn't know about these items, my Tiefling Slayer will LOVE them!
OK, here's a build. Stats as given. I don't know how starting gold is so I'll just assume nothing.
Traits: whatever makes you social.
Skills: 3 points. Diplomacy to get +6, Perception for +3, and something you find amusing (Intimidate? Sense Motive?).
Feats: Three--human, level 1, fighter level 1.
Fighter feat, Power Attack.
Level 1, Quick Draw.
And human feat? Persuasive, perhaps? Yes, everyone hates on the +2 skill feats. Why not be more facey?
So ... AC 11 + armour + shield, HP 12, hit stuff for d10+4 usually, with d10+6 for those tough to remove monsters. +5 to hit.
Oh, and there's a choice of HP or skill point.
I know this isn't 'optimal', but I think it'll get the jobs done, won't it? Solid damage, clank around, and your main non-combat role is 'talk nice'. Just off the top of my head, only research was 'What's that +2 to Diplo feat called?'.
(Want more levels? Fighters are a little too versatile..although I'd guess on Weapon Focus (bastard) for level 2's fighter feat.)
Show us all how your build idea rocks.
What about:
Oracular Knight
Dual-Cursed Oracle of Battle 4/ Fighter X
1F. Additional Traits: Fate's Favored & Magical Knack / +Quick Draw
2O. *Revelation: Misfortune*
3O. Power Attack
4O. *Revelation: War-Sight*
5O. Extra Revelation: Surprise Charge*
6F. +Cornugon Smash
7F. Abundant Revelation: Surprise Charge*
8F. +Weapon Focus: Bastard Sword
9F. Improved Critical: Bastard Sword
With Fate's Favored and Magical Knack, Divine Favor is a +3/+3 by level 6. Magical Knack also means that by level 5, the bonus spell Ill Omen is a no-save roll-twice-and-take-worse debuff on a target's next two d20 rolls. Combine with Misfortune to force multiple rerolls. If a Spellstoring weapon is acquired, Ill Omen can be applied through an attack.
With a Quickdraw Light Shield and Quickdraw, switching between two-handed and shield is all free actions, effectively allowing two-handing with heavy armor and shield.
While the character is loaded with 'hex' sort of magical effects, he's still outwardly a rather iconic sword-and-shield knight. While the usual flavor of 'curses' isn't necessarily heroic, it can be played as a hero whose pure force of will crushes even his enemies' luck.