Asmodean Paladins now legal?


Lost Omens Products

51 to 100 of 198 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Paizo Employee Developer

4 people marked this as a favorite.
James Sutter wrote:
*PFS will not be allowing paladins of Asmodeus.

Confirmed. The Pathfinder Society leadership does not intend to introduce paladins of Asmodeus at this time.


Even with the trait/cater level issue, I don't see any reason a Paladin couldn't switch to the heretical version of Asmodeus at some point after he gets access to divine spellcasting. It's not like deity choice is set in stone during character creation and totally immutable afterwards. Granted, it'd be a rather odd chain of events for a level 4+ Paladin to start worshipping a heretical Asmodean sect...

Liberty's Edge

John Compton wrote:
James Sutter wrote:
*PFS will not be allowing paladins of Asmodeus.
Confirmed. The Pathfinder Society leadership does not intend to introduce paladins of Asmodeus at this time.

Amend that to "at this or any other time"! D: D: D:


I don't get Pathfinder fluff sometimes I think. I would allow any lawful deity to have a paladin - especially with an Oath Against Chaos. Demons are still enemies of Asmodeus, and allowing some LG enforcers in Cheliax would broaden the Snidely Whiplash level NPCs there. I refuse to believe every Chellaxian citizen is either one step from LE, a rebel, or miserable (or some combo of that).

Then again, I don't like alignment defendant class abilities or spells because they are so metagame-y.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

"Every Chelaxian citizen" does not have Asmodeus as his patron. There are actually Hellknights who are paladins (but not of Asmodeus, obviously) in official Paizo material. Paying the required lip service to Asmodeus is a long way from worthiping him as your patron.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Honestly, while not wanting to play a Paladin of Asmodeus, though that would be interesting, I've never liked how Antipaladins have to be CE. I'd love to see an Evil Paladin-like character that didn't have to go out and slaughter villages for fun and eat babies for snacks.

Note: I don't actually think most Antipaladins do this, just making a point.

I'd rather Antipaladins have the restriction of any Evil or any non-Good alignment. Would make it a whole lot better for people wanting to play the Paladin of Asmodeus themed character.


I would have preferred Paladins to be good and non chaotic. While anti Paladins would be evil and non lawful.

I can of course house rule it that way if I'm DMing, but I think it would have served the game better as the default.


I can imagine an Asmodean knight trying to use these arguments to get the paladin's benefits package. It'd be fitting for the Archdevil's own to try and twist laws to their own benefit.

That said ... yyyyyeah. Exposure to what Asmodeus is really like is probably going to cause a huge crisis of faith. 'Um, OK, so I'm into the rule of law and good, but that guy on the corner is selling halflings. That's not right. What kind of god would allow this? I shall ask my goddess about OH CRAP.'

Now, a paladin can RESPECT Asmodeus. I think canonically Iomedae and Sarenrae do, and those are two major paladin recruiting gods. It doesn't mean 'venerate', or even 'like as a deity', but you can say 'Well, laws are usually good, and seriously, you remember the crapfest that Cheliax was before the Thrunes used hell to glue it together?'

I can't even imagine all LE gods allowing paladins. Do you really want to see what Zon-Kuthon would come up with? And somehow rakshasa immortals don't seem the kind to launch paladin orders.


Wouldn't Paizo making an archetype that uses Paladin as a base, but are not "True Paladins" fix this whole debate? I could see an archetype that Detects and Smites Chaos, and casts from the AntiPaladin Spell list.

They could have Mercys and Channel Positive Energy, but those whom willing accept such healing become more suceptable to Fear Effects from that Paladin.

Wesley Schneider claims "I doubt that even the Archfiend can honestly trick someone of true paladin stock into worshiping him," but Cheliax is a nation of Asmodean worshipers, just because he is evil in actuality doesn't mean he must be percieved in that way. Many Germans and Nazis thought they were doing the right thing. 50% of all humans in Golarion are good, and all those in Chealix are expected to pay at least lip service to Asmodeus; can you honestly tell me those conditions wouldn't create a few good aligned worshipers?

We are talking about the god of contracts and manipulation, and one of the first gods in existance. Manipulating the rules to allow followers to Channel Positive Energy shouldn't be a impossible feat.

I'd also concider Asmodeus to be able to play the long game. Just being an evil deitiy doesn't prevent him from actions that have good outcomes, such as sealing Rovagug, one of the greatest good acts to ever happen in pathfinder. But Asmodeus still gained from those actions, and, he has a nuke if threatened; he just needs to turn that key.

that said, a good Asmodean Paladin could very easily Smite Evils not of Asmodean design, giving space for the Devil Prince to expand his reach in the newly created vaccume of power.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Dim... the real world doesn't have good, evil. law, chaos as real active forces, with real active dieties and divine agents empowered by them. If they were, than history including that of Nazi Germany would have been profoundly different.

No matter how manipulative, and genius level intelligence Asmodeus may be.... even HE has limits that he can't cross. If he didn't have such constraints he wouldn't be a deity...He'd be the ONLY deity.


I dont see how Channeling Positive Energy raises his effective strength to greater than any Neutral Deitiy

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Diminuendo wrote:
I dont see how Channeling Positive Energy raises his effective strength to greater than any Neutral Deitiy

Power isn't the argument, it's bout erasing the lines between Good and Evil, which takes Pathfinder very far away from the spirit it inherits form D+D. And also from the idea that Gods are far more constrained by aliignment than mortals are.


Diminuendo wrote:

Wouldn't Paizo making an archetype that uses Paladin as a base, but are not "True Paladins" fix this whole debate? I could see an archetype that Detects and Smites Chaos, and casts from the AntiPaladin Spell list.

They could have Mercys and Channel Positive Energy, but those whom willing accept such healing become more suceptable to Fear Effects from that Paladin.

Wesley Schneider claims "I doubt that even the Archfiend can honestly trick someone of true paladin stock into worshiping him," but Cheliax is a nation of Asmodean worshipers, just because he is evil in actuality doesn't mean he must be percieved in that way. Many Germans and Nazis thought they were doing the right thing. 50% of all humans in Golarion are good, and all those in Chealix are expected to pay at least lip service to Asmodeus; can you honestly tell me those conditions wouldn't create a few good aligned worshipers?

We are talking about the god of contracts and manipulation, and one of the first gods in existance. Manipulating the rules to allow followers to Channel Positive Energy shouldn't be a impossible feat.

I'd also concider Asmodeus to be able to play the long game. Just being an evil deitiy doesn't prevent him from actions that have good outcomes, such as sealing Rovagug, one of the greatest good acts to ever happen in pathfinder. But Asmodeus still gained from those actions, and, he has a nuke if threatened; he just needs to turn that key.

that said, a good Asmodean Paladin could very easily Smite Evils not of Asmodean design, giving space for the Devil Prince to expand his reach in the newly created vaccume of power.

Warpriests have this covered.


when do Asmodean Warpriests Channel Positive Energy or Smite Evil?


LazarX wrote:
Power isn't the argument, it's bout erasing the lines between Good and Evil, which takes Pathfinder very far away from the spirit it inherits form D+D. And also from the idea that Gods are far more constrained by aliignment than mortals are.

It's debatable how in spirit that is with D&D as a whole. Ravenloft alone has paladins with divine power given by dark powers for their own amusement. The strictest adherence to "mortals must follow the alignment written on the sheet" comes from the 2000s, even with Gary Gygax being obsessed with a Christian morality having mechanical effects in a game. I know the devs would disagree with my (not uncommon) opinion, but they have a lot of strange opinions that have made Golarion very restrictive in it's "a little bit of everything" fantasy setting.

And I think your last sentence points to how mortals with alignment opposite from the deity makes sense, they are not outsiders. Paladins don't get their power directly from a deity like a cleric, so they don't have to match their deity's alignment.

Mechanically, paladins are metagame-y nightmares in political games so I would love to see any effort made to broaden their application - and no warpriests and cavaliers are not paladins or antipaladins.


Diminuendo wrote:
when do Asmodean Warpriests Channel Positive Energy or Smite Evil?

Take the archetype and this trait?


master_marshmallow wrote:
Diminuendo wrote:
when do Asmodean Warpriests Channel Positive Energy or Smite Evil?
Take the archetype and this trait?

An Asmodean Champion of the Faith can't get Smite Evil, even with the trait - getting smite evil as a champion of the faith requires both the warpriest AND his god be good-aligned.

Champion of the Faith wrote:

Chosen Alignment

At 1st level, a champion of the faith must select one of the following as his chosen alignment: chaos, evil, good, or law. This choice must be one of the alignments shared by the champion of the faith and his deity. Champions of the faith who are neutral with no other alignment components (or whose deity is) can choose any of the above alignments for this purpose. Additionally, a champion of the faith must select the blessing corresponding to his chosen alignment, even if it's not on his deity's list of domains.

His chosen alignment's opposite is referred to as his opposed alignment. Good and evil oppose one another, just as law and chaos oppose one another.

Emphasis added.

Shadow Lodge

8 people marked this as a favorite.

I opened this thread and just started laughing.

Sovereign Court

Zhangar wrote:
Huh. So if you have that trait and you're playing a LG cleric, do you wind up with a LG cleric who channels positive energy but can't cast [good] descriptor spells?

Wow I didn't even think of that. So as an LG, no Chaotic or Evil spells. With an LE deity, no Good spells. So, limited to typless and Lawful. That's actually a very interesting idea...

Shadow Lodge

Qaianna wrote:

Now, a paladin can RESPECT Asmodeus. I think canonically Iomedae and Sarenrae do, and those are two major paladin recruiting gods. It doesn't mean 'venerate', or even 'like as a deity', but you can say 'Well, laws are usually good, and seriously, you remember the crapfest that Cheliax was before the Thrunes used hell to glue it together?'

I can't even imagine all LE gods allowing paladins. Do you really want to see what Zon-Kuthon would come up with? And somehow rakshasa immortals don't seem the kind to launch paladin orders.

Asmodeus isn't a typical LE god, though. What other evil god has anything approaching the respect of two good deities? What other evil god could work together with good deities or be venerated by the same religious order (Order of the God Claw)?

Asmodeus cares about Order first. He just happens to be evil in the way he goes about it, namely complete subjugation of those lower down in the hierarchy. And he is interested in minimizing that part of his public image, in order to convince goodly folk that he's not so bad after all. Hence, canonical fake Asmodean paladins. This is why many people find an Asmodean Paladin plausible, but not a paladin of Zon-Kuthon or Achaekek. It's particularly plausible if the paladin is coming from an odd environment like the one represented by this trait.

Now, such a paladin is probably doomed to tragic failure, either falling or turning from their patron or at best dying young at the hands of demons - but that's part of what makes such a character interesting.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Is there any way to use Detect Evil on yourself? If so, a hypothetical paladin of Asmodeus could be in for a shock as soon as he does so. If not, then we have a very interesting encounter whenever two of these paladins meet each other and agree to subject each other to their own Detect Evil abilities.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
David knott 242 wrote:
Is there any way to use Detect Evil on yourself? If so, a hypothetical paladin of Asmodeus could be in for a shock as soon as he does so. If not, then we have a very interesting encounter whenever two of these paladins meet each other and agree to subject each other to their own Detect Evil abilities.

Actually, the paladin would always ping as Good - paladins explicitly gain an Aura of Good no matter what the god's alignment is.

The paladin having even a single rank of knowledge (religion) or knowledge (planes) would be more relevant, because the paladin then actually understands what Asmodeus is normally about.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Oops -- that's what I get for assuming that a paladin's aura works like that of a cleric without actually looking it up.


What I find interesting about this is that it now presumably opens the door for a wider alignment range of clerics to gain access to the Spellcasting Contract range of spells (a muy bueno range of buff spells...) ???

Grand Lodge

Can Asmodeus have an Antipaladain?

Scarab Sages

Kyras deepdragon wrote:
Can Asmodeus have an Antipaladain?

No. Antipaladins must be CE, and thus are also two steps away from LE.

The closest things that are currently possible in game to an Asmodean paladin/antipaladin are a Hellknight, Inquisitor, or Warpriest of Asmodeus.

Sovereign Court

LG paladins can smite evil.

Hellknights can smite chaos.

A LG Paladin/Hellknight can smite both chaos and evil, right? (albeit in a diluted manner as levels are now spread two ways)

However I can see this extremely effective on a Chaotic Evil demon...

Swift to activate smite evil, move to activate smite chaos, standard to strike with damage bonus equal to (pal_level*2)+(hellknight_level*2)

So a pal5/hknght5 is doing +20 damage on the first hit, and +10 afterwards, if I understand correctly.

I just realized this sucks... it would have only rocked if you can stack the levels of paladin unto the smite chaos, for (pal_level*2)+((hellknight_level+pal_level)*2).... a pal5/hknght5 can then first strike for +30 dmg


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I wonder whether a paladin/hellknight with the Oath Against Chaos could get both of his Smite Chaos abilities to stack? Then he would be every bit as scary to demons as a standard paladin is.


Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

LG paladins can smite evil.

Hellknights can smite chaos.

A LG Paladin/Hellknight can smite both chaos and evil, right? (albeit in a diluted manner as levels are now spread two ways)

However I can see this extremely effective on a Chaotic Evil demon...

Swift to activate smite evil, move to activate smite chaos, standard to strike with damage bonus equal to (pal_level*2)+(hellknight_level*2)

So a pal5/hknght5 is doing +20 damage on the first hit, and +10 afterwards, if I understand correctly.

I just realized this sucks... it would have only rocked if you can stack the levels of paladin unto the smite chaos, for (pal_level*2)+((hellknight_level+pal_level)*2).... a pal5/hknght5 can then first strike for +30 dmg

I'm pretty sure Bracers of the Avenging Knight would work on both of them, and stack.

BUT I don't know how you can declare smite as a move action.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Purple Dragon Knight wrote:

LG paladins can smite evil.

Hellknights can smite chaos.

A LG Paladin/Hellknight can smite both chaos and evil, right? (albeit in a diluted manner as levels are now spread two ways)

However I can see this extremely effective on a Chaotic Evil demon...

Swift to activate smite evil, move to activate smite chaos, standard to strike with damage bonus equal to (pal_level*2)+(hellknight_level*2)

So a pal5/hknght5 is doing +20 damage on the first hit, and +10 afterwards, if I understand correctly.

I just realized this sucks... it would have only rocked if you can stack the levels of paladin unto the smite chaos, for (pal_level*2)+((hellknight_level+pal_level)*2).... a pal5/hknght5 can then first strike for +30 dmg

they should make a feat that would allow your smite levels to stack


master_marshmallow wrote:

I'm pretty sure Bracers of the Avenging Knight would work on both of them, and stack.

BUT I don't know how you can declare smite as a move action.

if i remember correctly(don't quote me on this) if you have already used your swift action and want to use another ability that uses a swift action it will take your move action instead


I'm surprised nobody has mentioned multiclassing an LG cleric of Asmodeus, it only takes 1 level to get a CL, into a paladin. Now you qualify for the trait. If you need to be pure pally, you can retrain the level later when you qualify as a caster through higher pally levels. If you wanted you could basically call yourself a pally from level 1, using only cleric spells that are also on the paladin list and refusing to channel energy (or doing so on yourself only unless you were fully healed and adjacent to a single target, restricting it to the basic function of lay on hands). You could function passable for the first 4 levels and as a cleric 1 / paladin 3 you retrain to paladin 4. (4 is when you get spells right? You get the point either way)
Now your smite gets a bit stronger (just gained 2 pally levels at once, but lost the cleric level) you lose a few spells a day but otherwise not much changes. Paladin of Asmodeus accomplished.


Blackvial wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

I'm pretty sure Bracers of the Avenging Knight would work on both of them, and stack.

BUT I don't know how you can declare smite as a move action.
if i remember correctly(don't quote me on this) if you have already used your swift action and want to use another ability that uses a swift action it will take your move action instead

Where is this rule from?


Blackvial wrote:
master_marshmallow wrote:

I'm pretty sure Bracers of the Avenging Knight would work on both of them, and stack.

BUT I don't know how you can declare smite as a move action.
if i remember correctly(don't quote me on this) if you have already used your swift action and want to use another ability that uses a swift action it will take your move action instead

no such rule exists

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Shiroi wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned multiclassing an LG cleric of Asmodeus,

That's because such a beast can not exist. LG is two steps away from the Big A's alignment and you have to be within one.

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

The trait allows a cleric to treat Asmodeus as a LN god when dealing with alignment restrictions.


LazarX wrote:
Shiroi wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned multiclassing an LG cleric of Asmodeus,
That's because such a beast can not exist. LG is two steps away from the Big A's alignment and you have to be within one.

Normally you would be right, but the entire thread is based off of the trait Pact Servant.

The trait in question (Faith trait for characters from Holomog) from Distant Shores allows you to treat Asmodeus as a LN Deity for purpose of your alignment as cleric, inquisitor, or other divine spell-caster. You may not select the Evil domain unless your alignment also has an evil aspect.


LazarX wrote:
Shiroi wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned multiclassing an LG cleric of Asmodeus,
That's because such a beast can not exist. LG is two steps away from the Big A's alignment and you have to be within one.

Wasn't the whole point of the trait that you treat Asmodeus as LN and thus you could be LG and NN?


Imbicatus wrote:
Kyras deepdragon wrote:
Can Asmodeus have an Antipaladain?

No. Antipaladins must be CE, and thus are also two steps away from LE.

The closest things that are currently possible in game to an Asmodean paladin/antipaladin are a Hellknight, Inquisitor, or Warpriest of Asmodeus.

Paladins and antipaladins have no alignment restrictions for their deities like clerics do.

Their deities do not need to be within one step of their alignment.
I mentioned this before, but it might have gotten lost in the rest of my post.
I know it seems counter-intuitive, but a paladin's deity is actually one of the few aspects of their life that is not strictly controlled by their code.
They can worship no deity, or worship multiple deities, or worship a deity that doesn't actually exist. They can have a bizarre absurdist philosophy in which they simultaneously worship and do not worship everything in existence and fight for goodness or evil out of an abstract and subjective sense of pure existential dread. Whatever.

The only restriction is the Associates section of the (anti)paladin code.
For paladins, this means that they can only worship evil deities in order to fight against a greater evil.
For antipaladins, this means that they can only worship good deities in a surreptitious attempt bring ruin to their entire religion, which I have a strange feeling most deities would not be okay with.
But there's no restriction on antipaladins associating with or worshiping lawful/evil or even lawful/neutral deities, and Asmodeus would work just fine.

Shiroi wrote:
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned multiclassing an LG cleric of Asmodeus, it only takes 1 level to get a CL, into a paladin.

Except you still fall and lose all of your paladin class features for unnecessarily associating with and working with evil creature, because the trait only changes Asmodeus's effective alignment for the purpose of determining your own alignment, and the paladin code itself is completely independent from that.


Avoron wrote:
Imbicatus wrote:
Kyras deepdragon wrote:
Can Asmodeus have an Antipaladain?

No. Antipaladins must be CE, and thus are also two steps away from LE.

The closest things that are currently possible in game to an Asmodean paladin/antipaladin are a Hellknight, Inquisitor, or Warpriest of Asmodeus.

Paladins and antipaladins have no alignment restrictions for their deities like clerics do.

Their deities do not need to be within one step of their alignment.
I mentioned this before, but it might have gotten lost in the rest of my post.
I know it seems counter-intuitive, but a paladin's deity is actually one of the few aspects of their life that is not strictly controlled by their code.
They can worship no deity, or worship multiple deities, or worship a deity that doesn't actually exist. They can have a bizarre absurdist philosophy in which they simultaneously worship and do not worship everything in existence and fight for goodness or evil out of an abstract and subjective sense of pure existential dread. Whatever.

The only restriction is the Associates section of the (anti)paladin code.
For paladins, this means that they can only worship evil deities in order to fight against a greater evil.
For antipaladins, this means that they can only worship good deities in a surreptitious attempt bring ruin to their entire religion, which I have a strange feeling most deities would not be okay with.
But there's no restriction on antipaladins associating with or worshiping lawful/evil or even lawful/neutral deities, and Asmodeus would work just fine.

The counterargument is that of true worship vs lip-service.

If I am a Kuthite, how am I LG? If I don't embrace the concept of delivering sweet, agonizing, blissful pain of others, then how am I a Kuthite? If I can truly revel in inflicting suffering, then how am I Good aligned?

What you described, the twisted absurdist philosophy, is not worship. It is lip-service.

Most common folk pay lip service to deities in Golarion. A farmer might give a prayer to Erastil for bountiful crops, Gozreh for a decent rain, a quick message to Zyphus to not meet an untimely end mid work day, A prayer to Abadar that his crops sell well at market, and all the while be chaotic neutral because he really just wants to live on his own on his farmstead away from the hustle and bustle of city life.
Said farmer isn't a worshiper of any of those gods.
He just says little prayers to them.

To put it another way, if you're more than one step from your god, chances are there's a different god MUCH closer to your actual mindset.


Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:


If I don't embrace the concept of delivering sweet, agonizing, blissful pain of others, then how am I a Kuthite?

Because Zon-Kuthon is about more than just hurting others. Many Kuthonites self-flagulate; one doesn't have to inflict pain on others to embrace pain.

For that matter, Pain is only one part of Zon-Kuthon's portfolio. He's also all about Darkness and Loss. Is Lawful Good the only alignment that doesn't allow emo?

The great thing about a poly-pantheon is you don't have to be 100% all about every little detail concerning your deity (That's a Cleric's shtick). You can revere certain things about one god and different things about another. You can even worship several gods all at once.

If one is devoted to certain aspects of a faith, and lives out their beliefs without being a fanatic that blindly follows every bit of doctrine, that's lip service?


Melkiador wrote:
Even if possible, you will still have all of the other restrictions of being a Paladin. If Asmodeus personally commands you to do something evil, you still can't do it without falling. Paladins don't even draw their powers from a deity. You could even be a paladin of a dead god like Aroden.

Yes they do, they draw power from "divine forces of law and good" i.e. a mixture of one or more LN, LG, and NG deities. Arguably even from LE and CG deities as well, for the halves of their aspects that are relevant.

And since Asmodeus is treated as LN for their purpose, they CAN actually derive spells from him, unambiguously, since he is a "divine force of law" and not even a divine force of evil for this purpose.

One could argue as to whether you need at least some divine forces of both law and good in the mix, but regardless, he can at the very least contribute to spell granting for said paladin.


Quantum Steve wrote:
Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:


If I don't embrace the concept of delivering sweet, agonizing, blissful pain of others, then how am I a Kuthite?

Because Zon-Kuthon is about more than just hurting others. Many Kuthonites self-flagulate; one doesn't have to inflict pain on others to embrace pain.

For that matter, Pain is only one part of Zon-Kuthon's portfolio. He's also all about Darkness and Loss. Is Lawful Good the only alignment that doesn't allow emo?

The great thing about a poly-pantheon is you don't have to be 100% all about every little detail concerning your deity (That's a Cleric's shtick). You can revere certain things about one god and different things about another. You can even worship several gods all at once.

If one is devoted to certain aspects of a faith, and lives out their beliefs without being a fanatic that blindly follows every bit of doctrine, that's lip service?

In a world FULL of gods, actual gods capable of performing miracles and undisputably real? Yes.

If you hold ASPECTS of a religion in high regard but not the full blown religion, you're within one step of alignment (or are a Nogerberite).
Zon-Kuthon without inflicting pain is LN at best.
If you are opposed to others, particularly innocents, suffering (as LG should be), then you aren't a Kuthite.
Some other god is closer to your actual view.
Emo LG? Tsukiyo. Any neutral? The Lost Prince or Naderi.
At the same time, Kuthon is Lawful. So if you're just into random acts of violence, there's probably a demon lord more up your alley.

Otherwise, you have a VERY incorrect view of your god (and therefore not a true worshiper).
This is why the Holomog view of Asmodeus is peculiar, as it allows for a VERY skewed view of a god (I mean, Asmodeus as a woman? Of all gods, ASMODEUS?)


Crimeo wrote:

...

Yes they do, they draw power from "divine forces of law and good" i.e. a mixture of one or more LN, LG, and NG deities.
...

Didn't James Jacobs say at some point that Paladins don't get their powers from deities.

Can you provide a rules quote or a post from a Paizo employee that backs up your statement linking divine power with drawing from a mix of deities. It seems rather dubious.


I don't need an employee quote, it says right in the CRB magic chapter:

Quote:
Clerics gain spell power from deities or from divine forces. The divine force of nature powers druid and ranger spells, and the divine forces of law and good power paladin spells.

I'm not claiming it HAS to be a mix of deities, but "divine forces of law and good" must logically mean either one LG deity, or a mixture of some combination of lawful and good and lawful good deities.


Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:


If you are opposed to others, particularly innocents, suffering (as LG should be), then you aren't a Kuthite.

But pain isn't suffering, pain is bliss. :)

On topic though, what you seem to be talking about is a disciple of a deity. A disciple would, by necessity, have to be at least close to the alignment of his deity and practice all the major doctrine.

The vast majority of npcs would not fall into this category. Since deities draw their power from the faith of their worshipers, categorizing all non-disciples as non-worshiping lip-servicers doesn't make any sense.

Which deity might a dark, moody, character who carves his flesh to dull the sorrow for his lost(not dead) loved ones and escape his grim reality revere? Might he revere more than one?

Silver Crusade Contributor

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Note that in Golarion, deities do not draw power from their worshipers.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Kuthon is indeed crazy evil. But as far as I'm aware, there's no non-evil deity with "pain and suffering" in their portfolio.

And I don't think that pain and suffering are utterly and conclusively evil in all contexts. After all, the goddess of death is neutral.

Suffering can be a learning experience. It can teach us empathy. Suffering can be used both as penance - you suffer to express sincere regret - and as sacrifice - you suffer so others don't have to. Pain can be enjoyable, either because it's a means to an end ("no pain no gain") or for its own sake (hot sauce, proper BDSM).

Is it so unbelievable that a good person might see pain and suffering as valuable, seek that experience for themselves, and even encourage others to embrace their own suffering as a fruitful experience?

Lord Twitchiopolis wrote:

Otherwise, you have a VERY incorrect view of your god (and therefore not a true worshiper).

This is why the Holomog view of Asmodeus is peculiar, as it allows for a VERY skewed view of a god (I mean, Asmodeus as a woman? Of all gods, ASMODEUS?)

...which indicates that in Golarion it's possible to have a very incorrect view of your god and still be a true worshipper?

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Hmm...

Paladins of Asomdeus aside, it does give me an idea for a character...

LG Inquisitor of Lissalia::
Take the trait and the heretic archtype. Character's heresy is that she also embodies the seven positive virtues, and that the LE aspect is all that is currently remembered.


Weirdo wrote:
But as far as I'm aware, there's no non-evil deity with "pain and suffering" in their portfolio.

Neshen, the Knight of the Steel Lash, is a lawful/good empyreal lord with suffering in his portfolio, fitting in neatly alongside penitence and repentance.

Excellent paladin material, in fact.

51 to 100 of 198 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Lost Omens Campaign Setting / Lost Omens Products / Asmodean Paladins now legal? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.