Inner Sea Races: Military Tradition - choices?


Pathfinder Society

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

So I was paging through Inner Sea Races and noticed this alternate racial trait for humans:

ISR p.214 wrote:

Military Tradition: Several human cultures raise all

children (or all children of a certain social class) to serve in
the military or defend themselves with force of arms. They
gain proficiency with up to two martial or exotic weapons
appropriate to their culture. This racial trait replaces the
bonus feat trait.

Looking at the Additional Resources, it appears to be legal. However, is there some source to figure out which weapons are appropriate to which ethnicities?

I'm asking this here because PFS is typically prickly with these kind of vague choices.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Getting 2 exotic weapons instead of one for a feat hardly seems like the sort of thing that needs nerfing.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

I rather like it actually, it opens up exotic weapons to non-full-BAB humans at level 1.

But the way it's written, it looks to me like claims of being an "appropriate" weapon should be based on something.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Ascalaphus wrote:

I rather like it actually, it opens up exotic weapons to non-full-BAB humans at level 1.

But the way it's written, it looks to me like claims of being an "appropriate" weapon should be based on something.

Just making the argument that IF our options are floodgates or BANHAMMER i'd rather have floodgates.

Grand Lodge 5/5

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Maybe we can help campaign management by making a list with appropriate martial and exotic weapons per region/culture?

Examples:
Land of Linnorn Kings (Ulfen): Longaxe, Waraxe, Bastard sword, long sword
Realm of the Mammoth Lords (Kellids): Lance, Greatclub
Andoran: Bastard sword
Cheliax: Whip
Varisia (Shoanti): Shoanti Bolas, Earthbreaker, Klar, Totem Spear
Varisia (Varisian): Bladed Scarf

And so on. I'm sure with the combined knowledge of the boards we should be able to create a list for each region/culture with a few good options?

2/5

I think in this instance, maybe players should police themselves on which weapons to apply? The Inner Sea Races book doesn't specify that the Military Tradition or any alternative racial trait is ethnicity-specific like the feats/traits/spells are (as per page 192). The "racial traits show how the many races both native to the Inner Sea and visiting the region have been shaped by their situations" (page 210) would support the idea that whatever culture a military tradition human was raised in doesn't necessarily involve their ethnicity. Tian human raised in Taldor or Land of the Linnorn Kings wouldn't necessarily be limited to training in Tian weapons but maybe the falcata instead, while a Chelaxian born in Minkai because her parents are ambassadors there can be trained in katanas.

Grand Lodge 5/5

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Subscriber

It would still benefit a lot of people to have a list of possible combinations.

The reason I added ethnicity is that some countries might have multiple ethnicities with different weapon training. Granted, the only one that came to mind was Varisia :)

2/5

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Tengu say hello.

Grand Lodge

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It doesn't matter what it is.

If it's new, somebody is going to drop a fiery load of overreaction in their panties, and cry foul.

We are human.

We fear change.

Sovereign Court

I missed this trait, and it's exactly what I've been looking for. Not knowing a lot about the regions, are there any that would allow me to choose Whip and Scorpion Whip as being "appropriate to their culture"?

Grand Lodge

Osirion.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Andrew Klein wrote:
I missed this trait, and it's exactly what I've been looking for. Not knowing a lot about the regions, are there any that would allow me to choose Whip and Scorpion Whip as being "appropriate to their culture"?

The official song of katapesh is practically where there's a whip there's a way...

Grand Lodge

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The favored weapon of the Ancient Orision god Selket, is the Scorpion Whip.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

I'm not sure favored weapons of nearly defunct faiths really qualify for this trait; it's about stuff you learn in your country's armed forces.

You can (already) get them as a cleric/inquisitor/war priest though.

It's not that it'd be too powerful or anything, just that I don't think that really matches the description of what the trait does.

Grand Lodge

I mention it, as it's a regional weapon.

It must have history of use in the area.

Sovereign Court

blackbloodtroll wrote:
The favored weapon of the Ancient Orision god Selket, is the Scorpion Whip.

Which is where my Inquisitor going Pain Taster was going to get his proficiency (and is why I bought that adventure, not a ton of info on Selket, but I like what I saw), but he was going to have to wait till level 3 to get EWP Whip since he isn't full BAB. This alternate trait is exactly what I've been looking for, and actually fits thematically if I choose an Osirion basis.

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

@Andrew: inquisitors get proficiency with their deity's favored weapon for free. You don't need this trait.

Scarab Sages

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Ascalaphus wrote:
@Andrew: inquisitors get proficiency with their deity's favored weapon for free. You don't need this trait.

You do need both Whip and Scorpion Whip to be able to use a Scorpion Whip as a Whip. Inquisitor will give you one, but not both.

Sovereign Court

Imbicatus hit the nail on the head. I only get half of the needed proficiencies for full effectiveness.

Grand Lodge

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
Andrew Klein wrote:
I missed this trait, and it's exactly what I've been looking for. Not knowing a lot about the regions, are there any that would allow me to choose Whip and Scorpion Whip as being "appropriate to their culture"?
The official song of katapesh is practically where there's a whip there's a way...

I am going to have that song stuck in my head for days now...

Lantern Lodge 5/5

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I'd worry there'd be a lot of humans native to Alkenstar, but you can't buy firearms, so it's a non-issue.

What's the biggest stretch we're expecting, here? Human rogues born in Kyonin (don't ask how) starting with Elven Branched Spear proficiency?

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

I'd worry there'd be a lot of humans native to Alkenstar, but you can't buy firearms, so it's a non-issue.

What's the biggest stretch we're expecting, here? Human rogues born in Kyonin (don't ask how) starting with Elven Branched Spear proficiency?

Well, If you wanted to play a gun based character who was *not* a gunslinger, you could take gunsmithing as a feat, and then this would give you proficiency with 2 guns. You might have to wait a few levels to buy them though.

Maybe take amateur gunslinger at level 3 for quick clear and buy a gun then.

Waiting till level 5 for rapid reload is going to be a nightmare though.

A bane striking inquisitor with a firearm seems like it could really give people a bad day.

Scarab Sages

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

I'd worry there'd be a lot of humans native to Alkenstar, but you can't buy firearms, so it's a non-issue.

What's the biggest stretch we're expecting, here? Human rogues born in Kyonin (don't ask how) starting with Elven Branched Spear proficiency?

It is any worse than Half Elves born anywhere using it as their ancestral weapon? This human trait is arguably weaker than that, as almost all exotic weapons are not worth a feat, and taking two of them is highly questionable.

The main benefit is allowing Taldanes to take Falcata at first level without needing a full BAB class.

Lantern Lodge 5/5

I suppose it's useful for someone who wants EWP and can also benefit from proficiency in a backup weapon (a rogue getting Estoc proficiency and upgrading his shortbow to a longbow as a bonus, maybe?). Or to dual wield two disparate exotic weapons for some reason (Falcata and Swordbreaker Dagger)? At this point I'm really stretching.

So, like I said, not an issue. Go nuts.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Jayson MF Kip wrote:

I'd worry there'd be a lot of humans native to Alkenstar, but you can't buy firearms, so it's a non-issue.

What's the biggest stretch we're expecting, here? Human rogues born in Kyonin (don't ask how) starting with Elven Branched Spear proficiency?

Elven branched spear AND elven curved blade.


Religion: Add deity's favored weapon.

Hellknight: Add Hellknight Order's favored weapons.

5/5 5/5 *

A lot of the exotic weapons would fit into "cultural" weapons, but the only ones I can think of off the top of my head that would fit specifically into *Military* Tradition (as in these weapons are semi-unique to our armed forces) are the Aldori Dueling Sword and the Sawtooth Saber.

Or any of the [race] weapons for a human raised by another race.

4/5

Repeating crossbow and falcata? Because that makes sense for some military somewhere.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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Giving it a shot. I'm basing these on soldiers, warriors, etc found in PFS scenarios, but not city guards, prison staff or random assassins. If none are available, I've picked something that felt fitting or used a non-scenario source.

Azlanti: According to Sky Key Solution: Heavy flail and halberd

Chelaxians: Longsword(Iomedae, duh) and Halberd(barbazus).

Garundi: According to Heresy of Man I, Port Godless and Sun Orchid Scheme: Longsword, Falchion and Scimitar

Keleshite: Scimitar(it's on Qadira's flag, an on every dervish) and shortbow(cavalry's a big thing).

Kellid: According to Shades of Ice III and Where Mammoths Dare not Tread: Battleaxe and Longbow.

Mwangi: Most sources just give everyone spears, I dunno. Knobkerrie is a good bet according to its writeup and shortbow at least gets two mentions(Encounter at the Drowning Stones, By Way of Bloodcove). Ekujae just use their racial weapons, unfortunately.

Osiriani: Echoes of the Everwar III and IV feature falchions, but it's kind of hard to say if these are really Osirian military weapons or just colonial fare. Maybe khopesh?

Shoanti: I can't find anything within the scope of PFS, but History of Ashes gives a few mainstays like earthbreakers and shortbows(again, cavalry).

Taldan: The Taldan phalanx uses lonswords and bows if Decline of Glory is to be believed. It can't be helped! I mean, there's the sarissa - an actual phalangite weapon - and falcata, but okay then! /jest

Tian: Going over all the sub-ethnicities would take hours and be almost completely pure musing, but for Minkaians and those nations that take after them (Jinin, Shokuro, etc) ,Fabric of Reality tells us that Setsuna Kuga, who's like the biggest hero ever to emulate after, used a katana, so that's a decent bet(Hinojai and a few other scenarios agree). At least To Judge a Soul II also features naginatas pretty prominently as well.

Ulfen: Greataxes(Shades of Ice III, Blackros Matrimony and Frozen Fingers) and battleaxes(ditto + Shades I) galore. Real men also use handaxes (Shades I and Blackros Matrimony).

Varisian: Find me Varisian military traditions. I'll wait.

Vudrani: It's too early to say, I think, but at least for Jalmeray, Assault on Toodarnlongname mentions shortswords and shortbows. Personally, I'd pick urumi and kukri. Wait, are rakshashas a military tradition?

Disclaimer: I know, I know, my picks'd make the trait pretty useless for characters with martial proficiency, but nobody, not even the crankiest of GMs should have a problem if you base your picks on a PFS scenarios.

5/5 **

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

The Player Companion Humans of Golarion lists all the weapons for the different ethnicities.


i was gonna say isnt there a list of common weapons per ethnicity in a book i saw

not that it matters let people customize

Silver Crusade 4/5

waltero wrote:
The Player Companion Humans of Golarion lists all the weapons for the different ethnicities.

Good catch! They are on page 24 and 25 of Humans of Golarion.

Scarab Sages

Unfortunately, only spells and traits from Humans of Golarion are PFS legal.

Silver Crusade 3/5

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Imbicatus wrote:
Unfortunately, only spells and traits from Humans of Golarion are PFS legal.

That is because pages 24-25 list those weapons as fluff, there is nothing to actually legalize there. But it can used as a starting point.

That said, I tried to compile a list, as the book doesn't actually name the weapons by region, but in alphabetical order.

Absalom: Cestus, Double Crossbow, War Razor
Brevoy: Aldori Dueling Sword
Cheliax: Cestus, Flambard
Jalmeray: Chakram, Hanbo, Madu, Sling Glove, Temple Sword, Urumi
Katapesh: Battle Poi, Madu, Mancatcher, Meteor Hammer, Rope Gauntlet
Land of the Linnorm Kings: Flambard
Mwangi: Blowgun, Boomerang, Hunga Munga
Rahadoum: Hunga Munga
River Kingdoms: Cestus, Launching Crossbow
Osirion: Khopesh, Rope Gauntlet
Qadira: Chain Spear, Mancatcher, Shotel, Sica
Real of the Mammoth Lords: Mere Club
Sargava: Butterfly Knife
Shackles: Butterfly Knife
Sodden Lands: Terbutje
Taldor: Aklys, Falcata, Flambard, Katar, Pata, Scizore
Thuvia: Rope Gauntlet
Tian Xia: Hanbo, Meteor Hammer
Varisia: Bladed Scarf (for Varisians), Klar (for Shoanti), Shoanti Bolas (for Shoanti), Starknife (for Varisians)

I left out firearms and Sawtooth Sabers, the former because eh, firearms are complicated, don't want to ger involved in those, and the latter because they tied more to a group (Red Mantis Assassins, obviously) than a region.

The list is pretty weird, I must say, and kinda imbalanced. But this is what Humans of Golarion lists.


Also seems that the major slavehoding nations should get whips, while Nidal would go a step further and also get scorpion whips and spiked chains; gladiator parts of these nations should also get some gladiator weapons (such as but not limited to net and trident).

Seems like places (not necessarily whole nations) that are into sailing should get cutlasses or similar weapons, and anybody that goes whale and/or seal hunting a lot should get harpoon (and probably also net, since they probably also fish a lot).

And the Japanese asymmetric composite bows (yumi -- both short = hankyū and long = daikyū) should have been made exotic weapons, and likewise put in Minkai, but that's going to need another sourcebook at least.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

Considering it for my Numerian tech-fighter. Chainsaw is the one I'll mostly be using, what's another good one?

Shoanti's should have Klar, but I don't recall if that is exotic.

Edit: Yes, I have the chainsaw on two different chronicles for a GM credit blob. I'm aware that it's not always available, and I'll probably only have about 20 hours of use out of the two of them. 30 if I'm lucky.

Dataphiles 3/5

Still worth it to use a chainsaw in PFS.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

Chainsaw and Railgun?!

Must make sure I pick up Inner Sea Races... If I haven't already... need to organize my PDFs/Books better...

Spoiler:
There is at least one PFS Scenario that has both on the Chronicle sheet...

4/5

clearly that character was raised in a numerian biker gang within the mount...

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville

Tempest_Knight wrote:

Chainsaw and Railgun?!

Must make sure I pick up Inner Sea Races... If I haven't already... need to organize my PDFs/Books better...

** spoiler omitted **

Actually they are on two separate chronicle sheets.

4/5 5/55/55/55/5 ****

I'll have to look, I'm pretty sure I have both on one sheet...

Though I couldn't guaranty it...

Shadow Lodge 4/5 Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Jacksonville

Tempest_Knight wrote:

I'll have to look, I'm pretty sure I have both on one sheet...

Though I couldn't guaranty it...

Well I know I've GM'd the two scenarios in question

Spoiler:

TW Chainsaw -Fires of Karamoss
TW Railgun -Returned to Sky


Thread Breath of Life time!

Just thought of another possible set of military traditions: ones based upon profession rather than nationality. For instance, Miners would get proficiency with Picks and Earthbreakers; blacksmiths would get proficiency with hammers; drovers would get proficiency with whips; naval types would get proficiency with pirate weapons, etc. Normally, you would probably want to implement this with the Rough and Ready trait, but sometimes that doesn't fit, either because some of the weapons aren't actually tools (for instance, pirate weapons), or because this would clash with another trait that you need.

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