I'm always looking to improve my game through house-rules and other minor tweaks. I got my gaming start with Pathfinder around 6 years ago and while I have no plans to switch systems in the near future, I know that many of the other systems have at least something to offer.
Pathfinder is the only system that I have any kind of significant experience with so ... I'm a bit of a D&D noob.
One thing in particular that I heard about the other day that I was interested in learning more about was a rule in 5e where mooks or henchmen or mobs only had 1 HP but still had adequate stat-blocks.
Other than that I'm all eyes on what I can do to improve my game without a radical rebuild of the entire system.
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Monsters that are taken out in a single attack are cool and good. I've utilized them in a number of games and they really cut down on the tedium and grind of fighting big mobs of monsters.
A rule I used once a long time ago (and one that's appeared in a few games since) for those monsters you don't necessarily want to be taken out in a single attack but don't want to track hit points for is hit point thresholds: namely, the first time a monster is hit, if the attack deals damage over the monster's hit point threshold, they go down. If the attack is lower than their hit point threshold, they become bloodied and will drop at the next attack, regardless of actual hit points. This way you can have monsters that can potentially survive the first attack, but without the unnecessary book-keeping. (Do note that this one only really makes sense if your players' expected damage output is close to the monster's average hit points.)
If you'd like to inject a bit of randomness into the above, you can just use the monster's hit dice as a guideline for determining their HP threshold. For an example, if your standard Orc mook has 1d8+1 HD, then the first time they take damage roll that, and if it's higher than the damage they took they simply become bloodied.
All of those are just quality of life improvements that will reduce the amount of book-keeping and make life better for you.
Also, it's been a while since I've run any d20-based game, but when I do I will totally borrow Advantage and Disadvantage from 5e.
E: If you're using tokens or something to run your game, a good way to mark a creature as bloodied is to flip the token over. That's what I did.
I think that mook rule is from 4th Edition.
One thing 5E did was actually increase the hit points of mooks. Some CR 1 critters have 9 hit dice!
But I really like that threshold hit point rule. I might use that in the future.
The advantage/disadvantage system is really nice and elegant and fun and simple to use. I don't know how it would work with PF, since PF is based on adding up tons of little bonuses so you can hit really big target numbers.
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I recently started a Hell's Rebels campaign, and I decided to steal a character building exercise from FATE to start building relationships between PCs before the campaign properly begins. Rather than rehash the whole thing here, I'll link to the appropriate section of the FATE SRD, and just say I left out the bit about assigning aspects to these story bits. I wanted the characters to have interacted (either directly or indirectly) with each other in Kintargo, so there was a reason these five people ended up hanging together, since they're not exactly strangers to each other.
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I recently started a Hell's Rebels campaign, and I decided to steal a character building exercise from FATE to start building relationships between PCs before the campaign properly begins. Rather than rehash the whole thing here, I'll link to the appropriate section of the FATE SRD, and just say I left out the bit about assigning aspects to these story bits. I wanted the characters to have interacted (either directly or indirectly) with each other in Kintargo, so there was a reason these five people ended up hanging together, since they're not exactly strangers to each other.
Oh yeah, this is in general a good idea: even if it's just telling each player that "This isn't your first adventure: you once adventured with the player to your left. Tell us how that went!" you get a group that is already tied together and already has something to start with as far as developing relationships goes.
A couple of other rules that are easily slotted into almost any campaign would be 13th Age's Icon relationships and One Unique Things. Both can be found on the Archmage Engine SRD.
Not 5E related, but a good, simple, universal tool for building backstory during character creation.
The other part that would be easy to import would be the backgrounds. The professions before play that add an extra skill or two plus a minor special ability. You can include the Trait/Ideal/Bond/Flaw and Inspiration. I would use Inspiration as a free re-roll on any roll.
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Not 5E related, but a good, simple, universal tool for building backstory during character creation.
Could you elaborate on this? Are you talking about drawing cards to determine and/or help inspire the character's background? Reminds me of a thing some cool poster on another forum did when they showed how they used simple Tarot readings to use as a guide in determining character concept.
Also, I really like 5e style Backgrounds, but my favorite presentation of them has to be from Strike!, where a background not only gives you the skills and resources that come with that background, but also a single Trick which is essentially a Thing that you can always do owing to your background. For an example, a character with the Thief background can always stake out a place to find a way in, a character with the Necromancer can always speak with the recently dead, and a character with the Arcanist background can always identify the properties of a magic item.
I feel like I've been using an improvised version of the threshold system for years during random encounters, I'm glad someone actually bothered to put together some fly-by rules, definitely be using those.
What's the advantage/disadvantage system? Anyone have an idea of where I could find out more about it?
Luckily the group that I have right now is pretty good with character backgrounds (though I do offer in game incentives). Although those tricks from Strike! sound like something that I'll look into the next time we start a new campaign.
Advantage/Disadvantage pretty much replaces the plethora of +1,+2,-1, -2, etc. bonuses and penalties of the 3rd edition era.
If circumstances are in your favor you have advantage. Roll 2 d20s for whatever task you are doing, take the best result.
Disadvantage is the opposite. If circumstances hinder you, roll 2 dice, take the lowest result.
There are some numerical bonuses and penalties scattered throughout class features and spells, but most of the circumstance type modifiers will be advantage and disadvantage.
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When I run something like D&D these days (usually B/X or something) I sprinkle advantage and disadvantage over it liberally. It's actually fundamentally easier in older editions than 3e and 4e, because there aren't all that many circumstance bonuses going around, and when there are they're usually pretty huge (for an example, the Thief gets +4 on attacks that come from behind, which is almost perfectly represented by Advantage).
Similarly, I use Disadvantage to replace miss chance, whether from concealment or incorporealness or whatever. Miss chance in 3e/PF always felt like a bit of a cheat: no matter how well I just rolled, there's a flat chance that I'll fail simply because the GM rolled some dice behind the screen and said "Actually that hit is a miss now." Even knowing that I have to use the lower result of two dice, Disadvantage feels a lot less cheaty simply because I get to add my relevant modifiers on both dice.
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I feel like I've been using an improvised version of the threshold system for years during random encounters, I'm glad someone actually bothered to put together some fly-by rules, definitely be using those.
What's the advantage/disadvantage system? Anyone have an idea of where I could find out more about it?
Luckily the group that I have right now is pretty good with character backgrounds (though I do offer in game incentives). Although those tricks from Strike! sound like something that I'll look into the next time we start a new campaign.
oh, I didn't realize you'd responded to my post!
The first time I ran a game with HP thresholds I called them quantum mooks, because until they were hit they existed in both states of being a mook (and going down from one attack) and not being a mook (and needing two attacks to be taken out). The term HP threshold is also from Strike!
Strike! style backgrounds are really easy to come up with, but they might require a bit of work adapting to Pathfinder: in Strike! your background is your main source of getting skills, and your class is actually entirely separate from your background. Tricks are one part of backgrounds, but they're also the easiest to plug into other systems without having to worry about the actual skill system.
They're really just narrative permissions: "Your character is a noble so you can always get your name on the list of a royal ball," or "Your character is a wandering minstrel, so you can always tell what the biggest news around town is when you arrive." If you already know who your characters are it should be easy to come up with tricks of your own for them.
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Lots of things actually...
• Using Hit Die for healing. Basically spend one of your HD to regain 1dX + Con modifier hit points. Regain 1/2 your HD on a long rest (6 to 8 hrs).
• Scale cantrip damage/effects and base it off character level instead of class level. Thus a elf wizard 1/ fighter 8 would do can trip damage of a 9th level wizard.
• Legendary Monster rules. Basically giving big monsters multiple options per turn instead of full-attack OR cast spell. Also lair rules help too.
• Weapon groups. Really, focusing on ONE weapon via a Feat sucks and should've died in a fire a long time ago. For example, Weapon Focus (heavy blade) vs. great sword.
• Move-attack-move without annoying feat chains.
• OoA can immobilize target instead of doing damage (not 5e, but a good feat in 3e which should've also been standard)
• Concentration when multiple spells are in effect. No need to have flying, invisible, stoneskin wizards pew-pewing people with death rays, enervation, and scorching rays.
Lots of things actually...
• Using Hit Die for healing. Basically spend one of your HD to regain 1dX + Con modifier hit points. Regain 1/2 your HD on a long rest (6 to 8 hrs).
• Legendary Monster rules. Basically giving big monsters multiple options per turn instead of full-attack OR cast spell. Also lair rules help too.
• Concentration when multiple spells are in effect. No need to have flying, invisible, stoneskin wizards pew-pewing people with death rays, enervation, and scorching rays.
Any idea where I can find out more about these? What do you mean when you say "spend one of your HD"?
I've been trying to engineer a satisfactory single enemy "boss fight" mechanic for years with mixed results, the mythic agile template is a good start but can sometimes be a little too much.
What was the name of the 3e AoO feat?
I don't think 5E does threshold hp.
I think that's a homebrew rule. A really, really great homebrew rule.
I think the PF feat was Stand Still.
Lots of things actually...
• Using Hit Die for healing. Basically spend one of your HD to regain 1dX + Con modifier hit points. Regain 1/2 your HD on a long rest (6 to 8 hrs).
• Legendary Monster rules. Basically giving big monsters multiple options per turn instead of full-attack OR cast spell. Also lair rules help too.
• Concentration when multiple spells are in effect. No need to have flying, invisible, stoneskin wizards pew-pewing people with death rays, enervation, and scorching rays.
Any idea where I can find out more about these? What do you mean when you say "spend one of your HD"?
I've been trying to engineer a satisfactory single enemy "boss fight" mechanic for years with mixed results, the mythic agile template is a good start but can sometimes be a little too much.
What was the name of the 3e AoO feat?
Pipe, you can find out more about just about all the 5e rules you've asked about (advantage and spending Hit Dice during a short rest) at WotC's free basic rules. It doesn't have all the options you get from the core rulebooks, but the chapters on Using Ability Scores, Adventuring and Combat will describe the mechanics for you.
Then please, tell me of this threshold house rule...
I think it's explained better upthread, but essentially, mooks have a number of hit points equal to the average weapon damage (or something).
If you hit a mook and don't kill it outright, the next time it gets hit, it dies.
Basically, all wounded, non-dead mooks have 1 hit point.
Could you elaborate on this? Are you talking about drawing cards to determine and/or help inspire the character's background? Reminds me of a thing some cool poster on another forum did when they showed how they used simple Tarot readings to use as a guide in determining character concept.Not 5E related, but a good, simple, universal tool for building backstory during character creation.
The cards have questions/prompts on them. Answering them builds character history involving other elements that are decided upon at the table. Example:
"Sometime ago, you and PC did a secret job or task for GROUP. What did PC do to earn your trust?"
The GM would have several options for GROUP (ie, influential groups involved with the campaign). You'd draw another card which would have an arrow and # to tell you which PC at the table you include in your answer.
Thanks for the link, hitdice.
Advantage/disadvantage is intriguing but might be a bit more difficult to incorporate. PF kinda favors stacking on so many buffs at mid to high levels that I think it ends up actually being a worse deal at the higher levels. I could always increase the number of rerolls if the static bonus gets high enough ... Hmmm. Maybe I'll try it out for enemies first and see what the results are. Incorporating it into the miss chance rules also seems like a good place to start.
Quantum mooks would make a killer band name.
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Neat, I like that. I think that you did mention it, but it makes more sense this time around, for some reason.
The first time I used this rule it was actually for a Pathfinder one-shot. Whenever the PCs hit an enemy I had deemed unimportant (like your average one hit-die goblin) I'd roll their hit points. If the damage was over the mook's hit points, it'd simply go down. Otherwise, I'd flip the token and make a mental note that the next attack would be enough to kill them.
The expression HP Threshold comes from Strike! where a certain class of monsters (Goons, I think) have a hit point threshold of 4 (or 5 at higher levels) and a single attack dealing 4 damage is enough to take them out, otherwise they're bloodied and taken out after the next attack. Do note that in Strike! 4 damage at first level is already quite a lot: most attacks deal 2 damage, maybe 4 on a critical hit, but Strikers might be able to deal as much as 4 damage reliably when using an Encounter power.
Anyway, this is a rule I've never used, so take it with a grain of salt, but it's one I do want to use when I next run a d20-based game: Freeform Skills and Skill Penumbras.
What this rule does is make each skill a bit broader in applications while allowing players to have a bit more customization on their character. There are no class skills or skill points here: each player simply chooses and appropriate number of skills they have as learned (no idea on the numbers, with standard numbers of skills this rule will actually make characters more broadly competent, but I'm okay with this). Each skill is freeform, so the players have freedom in naming these skills.
For each skill thus chosen a player can choose one Umbra (this is the main application of the skill) and two Penumbras (closely related applications of the skill). To give a few examples, here's a few:
Religious Diatribe - This skill counts as Knowledge (Religion) (its Umbra) as well as Diplomacy and Intimidate when the character spouts religiously inspired arguments (its Penumbras).
Arcane Mutterings - This skill counts as Knowledge (Arcana) (its Umbra) as well as Bluff and Intimidate when the character either mutters arcane-sounding theory to sound like an expert or uses said mutterings to try to cow people who don't understand magic (its Penumbras).
Brutish Efficiency - This skill counts as Athletics (its Umbra) as well as Intimidate and Craft when you narrate your brute strength being of use in the test (its Penumbras).
Stentorious Voice - This skill counts as a type of extremely loud and boisterous Perform (Sing) (its Umbra) as well as Diplomacy and Intimidate when you simply use your voice to drown out the opposition's arguments (its Penumbras).
Coarse Persuasion - This skill counts as a type of Diplomacy (its Umbra) as well as Bluff and Intimidate when using a lot of back-slapping and reassurances of "C'mon, you'll love it!" as part of your argument.
(Some names of the above skills stolen wholesale from Luke Crane's amazing Burning Wheel.)
When you use a Skill's Umbra it counts as having that skill at your maximum number of skill ranks and a class skill for the sake of determining bonuses. When you use a Skill's Penumbra it counts as having that skill at the maximum number of skill ranks but without the class skill bonus. All other skills are rolled as if you had no ranks in them and as if they were not your class skills. If the Umbras or Penumbras of two of your skills overlap, simply use the better of the two.
As I said, this will make characters more broadly competent, so it might not be appropriate to all games. In the style of game I run, though, it's all good. :)
If I were to port anything it would be lair, region, legendary etc for solo monsters. Solo beasties in lairs are a classic of the genre and they are fodder for the most part in PF
If I were to port anything it would be lair, region, legendary etc for solo monsters. Solo beasties in lairs are a classic of the genre and they are fodder for the most part in PF
After looking at these I have to say that I like them a whole lot and will definitely be adapting them in some way. I only wish that WoTC had more examples of these up on the free basic rules reference. They're pretty much everything I look for in my house rules, simple, effective and creative.
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Well, far be it from me to be a shill for WotC, but I was really quite impressed with the 5E core books, so I'd recommend investing in a set if you have the cash.
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Monsters that are taken out in a single attack are cool and good. I've utilized them in a number of games and they really cut down on the tedium and grind of fighting big mobs of monsters.
A rule I used once a long time ago (and one that's appeared in a few games since) for those monsters you don't necessarily want to be taken out in a single attack but don't want to track hit points for is hit point thresholds: namely, the first time a monster is hit, if the attack deals damage over the monster's hit point threshold, they go down. If the attack is lower than their hit point threshold, they become bloodied and will drop at the next attack, regardless of actual hit points. This way you can have monsters that can potentially survive the first attack, but without the unnecessary book-keeping. (Do note that this one only really makes sense if your players' expected damage output is close to the monster's average hit points.)
Just want to throw out that a system almost exactly like this for pathfinder was created by Jason Bulmahn. Check out Minotaur Games Rule zero: Underlings.
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If you're looking for something to steal from another game for pathfinder I'd have to say the Lair Actions and Legendary effect for dragons from 5th ed. My buddy just got his copies this weekend and after looking over those I was in love. The idea that fighting a dragon in his lair grants him certain benefits like magma eruptions or clouds of biting flies to attack enemies without costing him an action is awesome and helps make dragons feel special again rather than just another monster type. Also the idea of legendary dragons being so magical they warp their surroundings is really cool and with the new rules something I want to play with desperately. Like I can say right now that one of my major cities that is protected by a Silver Dragon will now have a Cloud district.
Second, 5th ed presents some fonts for the various basic languages that you could co opt for use in your pathfinder games. I know I'm always a fan of actual script for other languages rather than just using my native language.
Hope those help man.
Yeah, legendary actions really make fights against a single BBEG really fun and dynamic. In 5E, cantrip damage is considerable (1d10 at 1st level for fire bolt) and scales with level (2d10 at 5th, 3d10 at 11th, and 4d10 at 17th), so when the lich can cast a cantrip after an opponent's turn 3 times per round, it can do an additional 12d10 points of damage for free. That's a significant threat, and ups the ante of legendary encounters.