If tiny sized creatures can swarm small creatures, would it stand to reason you could have a halfling swarm a giant?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


How would you work it?

Scarab Sages

Use the Troop rules.


Troop rules, located where?

Dark Archive

I would read the Core Rule Book:

Quote:


Moving Through a Square

You can move through an unoccupied square without difficulty in most circumstances. Difficult terrain and a number of spell effects might hamper your movement through open spaces.

Friend: You can move through a square occupied by a friendly character, unless you are charging. When you move through a square occupied by a friendly character, that character doesn't provide you with cover.

Opponent: You can't move through a square occupied by an opponent unless the opponent is helpless. You can move through a square occupied by a helpless opponent without penalty. Some creatures, particularly very large ones, may present an obstacle even when helpless. In such cases, each square you move through counts as 2 squares.

Ending Your Movement: You can't end your movement in the same square as another creature unless it is helpless.

Overrun: During your movement, you can attempt to move through a square occupied by an opponent (see Overrun).

Tumbling: A trained character can attempt to use Acrobatics to move through a square occupied by an opponent (see the Acrobatics skill).

Very Small Creature: A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so.

Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller: Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than itself.

A big creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories smaller than it is. Creatures moving through squares occupied by other creatures provoke attacks of opportunity from those creatures.

Designated Exceptions: Some creatures break the above rules. A creature that completely fills the squares it occupies cannot be moved past, even with the Acrobatics skill or similar special abilities.

So a giant would have to be Huge size or large before a halfling can enter its space.

Scarab Sages

Rogar Stonebow wrote:
Troop rules, located where?

I think they were in Rasputin Must Die! d20pfsrd has them.


Troop subtype

Scarab Sages

Also, Paizo Blog with the rules and a sample Troop


Hmmm


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Also, tiny sized creatures can swarm tiny sized creatures.

It's not a matter of size, everything is just figured from a medium-centric viewpoint.


I would be inclined to restrict it as the small creatures will have no way of getting anywhere but the legs of the huge creature. (Now, if they had some way to get all over it I wouldn't restrict it.)

Sovereign Court

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No - it doesn't actually stand to reason.

It's not just that the system is on a medium-centric viewpoint (though that's possibly a secondary reason). Once you reach a certain size creature - they simply can't swarm in the same way due to their mass vs density of skin etc. It's the whole square to cubed ratio thing.

For example - if something is twice as tall with the same proportions, it'll mass 8x as much. (2x2x2)

Similarly, if something is twice as tall with the same proportions, the bottom of their feet will be 4x as much area (2x2). But, since they weigh 8x as much, each square inch of the bottom of their foot is supporting twice as much weight. (that's why elephants don't really run)

Rats/bats/bugs etc can swarm because of how little weight they put on their feet relative to their mass. Plus - falling a short distance is insignificant to them due to how little they weigh - the same being true if they run into each-other in the mass of bodies. However, given how much my nieces/nephews cried when they tripped as toddlers & little kids, the same would not be true of halflings.

Therefore - it doesn't actually make sense that they can swarm in the same way as much smaller creatures can.


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WotC experimented with a Mob creature type which was basically a swarm of creatures larger than your typical swarm participants. It appears in the D&D 3.5 DMG 2 starting on page 59, if curious.

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