Creating my first Magus, feedback welcome


Advice


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'm looking to play a Magus in a Rise of the Runelords campaign starting soon. I've read the various guides and feel I understand how Spellstrike and Spell Combat work in theory.

I've decided on a half-elf Dex based Magus. He or she is a sailor, most likely grew up in Riddleport or Roderick's Cove.

I would appreciate any feedback you could give.

Izzy's current build:

Iozder a.k.a. Izzy
Male half-elf magus 1 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 9)
N Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +2
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Defense
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AC 15, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +2; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee cold iron dagger +3 (1d4/19-20) or
cold iron kukri +3 (1d4/18-20) or
silver light mace +3 (1d6)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+1, 4 points), spell combat
Magus Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
1st—blade lash[ACG], shocking grasp
0 (at will)—arcane mark, detect magic, prestidigitation
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Statistics
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Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 13
Feats Skill Focus (Acrobatics), Weapon Finesse
Traits reckless, scholar of the ancients
Skills Acrobatics +11, Appraise +4, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (local) +4, Perception +2, Profession (sailor) +4, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven, Goblin, Shoanti, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ elf blood
Other Gear leather armor, cold iron dagger, cold iron kukri, silver light mace, bedroll, belt pouch, blotter (0.2 lb), inkpen, journal[UE], knife for cutting quills into pens (0.5 lb), masterwork backpack[APG], mess kit[UE], pen nibs, pigment for making ink (0.2 lb), ruler, small (0.1 lb), soap, spell component pouch, vial, 26 gp, 6 sp, 9 cp
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Special Abilities
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Arcane Pool +1 (4/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.

I plan to use Arcane Mark to get the extra attack via Spell Strike. I do not plan to use the traits to modify meta-magicked spells. My GM would likely consider that a step too far.

I am trying to evaluate the archetypes Kapenia Dancer and Spell Dancer. I'm not sure how the Bladed Scarf is supposed to work with Spell Combat though since it is a two-handed weapon.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.


Alright, since you mention that you want to build a Dexterity-based Magus, I would suggest you look into dipping Inspired Blade Swashbuckler or Dervish of Dawn Bard at 1st level.
Both of them will get you DEX to attack AND damage and save you some feat slots later on.
You could also then dump your Strength score and push your Dexterity a little more.

I would also recommend the kukri over the dagger for increased crit range. Of course, if you went for one of the dips I suggested above, you'll have to use a rapier or scimitar so that'll be settled for you.

Other than that, I'm not a big fan of the Spell Dancer Magus: Spell Dance is nice but usually, versatile magic bonuses from your arcane pool are better. ;)

Liberty's Edge

Have you checked with the GM to see if he'll allow Arcane Mark for Spellstrike. By RAW it works, but I know a large number of GMs who only allow Spellstrike to work with "attack" spells, and don't consider Arcane Mark to be an attack spell.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

@dnoisette The Dervish of Dawn bard would not fit the concept I have for this character. I don't see it as a worshipper of Sarenrae. Swashbuckler is a possibility, although without a Charisma it would mean almost no panache. At that point, wouldn't Lore Warden (Fighter) be better for gaining feats?

Dumping strength any further would make carrying capacity a problem.

As for kukri, perhaps at a later level. Right now I would rather have finesse so that I can hit. I might go rapier in the mean time.

As for the Spell Dancer, I was concerned about losing the weapon bonuses.

@Deighton Thrane I don't see a problem with it, but I will make sure to check with them.

---

Re-reading the Karpathian Dancer, I see that it specifically modifies the Bladed Scarf. It helps to go back to the original source for some of this stuff. Since it has less weapon choices and the bladed scarf isn't that impressive a weapon it doesn't look like that good an archetype. The Elasticity (Su) ability via Arcana looks interesting, but there are already so many good arcana to choose from that I can afford to ignore that one.


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BretI wrote:
@dnoisette The Dervish of Dawn bard would not fit the concept I have for this character. I don't see it as a worshipper of Sarenrae. Swashbuckler is a possibility, although without a Charisma it would mean almost no panache. At that point, wouldn't Lore Warden (Fighter) be better for gaining feats?

Not really because the main draw of Inspired Blade (Swashbuckler archetype) is that you get Weapon Focus (rapier) and Weapon Finesse for free which effectively allows you to have DEX to hit and damage at 1st level by just selecting Fencing Grace for your feat.

Plus, if you read carefully, you'll see that the archetype makes it so your panache is based on your Charisma modifier AND Intelligence modifer at the same time so your second issue no longer exists.

BretI wrote:
Dumping strength any further would make carrying capacity a problem.

No, it would not. Dropping your backpack on the ground in the first round of combat is a free action and there you have light load again.

A Handy Haversack is just 2,000 gp and will completely get rid of the problem by level 3 at the latest.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I had missed the part about using Int modifier for panache on Inspired Blade. I'll go back and read it.

Strength 8 is 7 less pounds of equipment, limit of 26 pounds, and gains me 2 attribute points.

Equipment:

12.5 for Chain Shirt made of Mithral.
2 spell component pouch
2 rapier
1-2 backup weapon (dagger or rapier)
2-3 some sort of bow or efficient quiver
4 light mace
5 handy haversack
1 headband of Int
1 belt of Dex
1 cloak of resistance
1 longarm or spellguard bracers
1 most magical boots
3 some sort of hat
1-5 some sort of body item

We are overloaded.

Yes, I can find ways around this, but based on past experience even with a Handy Haversack and Mithral Chain Shirt I'll be struggling with encumbrance more than I find fun.

I know that others are willing to go to extremes on this sort of thing. All I'm saying is based on my own past experiences, I find that carrying capacity becomes too much of a bother for my characters if they wear armor.


Mithral Shirt is only 10 lbs. ;)
But I see your point anyway. In that case, if you really want a STR score of 10, I would lower Intelligence a bit to further up Dexterity.
If you don't mind about UMD or you plan on taking Pragmatic Activator (maybe) for one of your traits, you could also just dump Charisma.


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Attributes are okay. You could dump Strength, but not truly necessary. I would recommend dumping Charisma to shore up your Wisdom, to at least a 12. Another suggestion is to try and increase your Constitution to 16, since you will only have D8 Hit Dice (and you will be in melee).

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage. One option is a 3 level Unchained Rogue dip (which may not be worth it, as you lose a BAB), another is the Dervish Dance feat (requires Scimitar only, but can only be taken by 3rd level, similar to the Rogue dip). Personally, Dervish Dance is a great feat; a classic, in fact. The Scimitar is a solid weapon, and as a Magus, you will want 18-20 critical multipliers, since your damaging spells, such as Shocking Grasp, will share that critical multiplier.

I would extremely recommend Shield instead of Blade Lash starting off. The +4 AC will be much more beneficial, since you are a squishy martial character, and your armor is not that strong. You're more than welcome to memorize Blade Lash later down the road, but starting off? The Trip won't be worth saving you a hit, since you only have 10 HP, and one solid hit will drop you. A +4 AC on every attack for 1 minute versus giving a single enemy a plausible -4 to hit (assuming they bother to not stand up)? The choice is obvious.

Trait choice isn't bad. If you think Acrobatics will be a very useful skill and you can use it reliably, then I don't see a problem specializing. It'd be worth it since you will be squishy. Though truthfully, I would prefer you take the standard Reactionary/Indomitable Faith trait combo, this set-up isn't bad either. I have no clue what Scholar of the Ancients does.

For feat choice, I'm sure you receive Skill Focus (Acrobatics) because of being a Half-Elf. Personally, the Human Bonus feat would be more helpful. That being said, I would recommend getting the Piranha Strike feat. It's essentially Power Attack, but for Finesse-based characters.

I'd try to get one of your Strength-based party members to hold some of your more menial stuff if weight is an issue.

Other than that, all seems to be in order. Start slaying some monsties!


TLDR: Just some thoughts on a spell (Frostbite), archetype (hexcrafter) and possible class that you might want to look at.

I'm currently running a half-elf magus in S&S that took 1st level inspired blade. While it is nice to get the free feats right away, take it with a grain of salt, for most of the entire first adventure path my DM kept removing my weapon, so I'd have to rely on unarmed strikes or what ever I could find around. Since I was basically only capable with a rapier it made it incredibly difficult. I'm not saying don't do it, just be aware of how dependent you are on the rapier, since you can't use wep finesse with a dagger you hid in your boot or something if you go inspired blade. The panache was helpful multiple times though.

I don't see any mention of it, but if you're considering different archetypes as well, I highly recommend hexcrafter - you get brand as a cantrip which is a damaging spell, removing any issue your gm might have with arcane mark. I always found my theory crafted magi(?) had very little staying power compared to the archer or fighter that can go for days, but the hexcrafter helps a lot with that, granting hexes that can be used when a spell might not be worth it, and if you're taking the extra arcana favored class bonus, at 12 you can get two major hexes which is nice, some save or sucks that scale with level are always fun.

Looks like you're going the intensified shocking grasp route, which is great for damage and quintessential really... Personally I went with frost bite as my first 1st level spell and would recommend picking it up as a secondary. I wanted to more status effects rater than straight damage (because why not) you get less attacks technically, as you aren't spell striking every round, but you can still channel the touch through your weapon as far as I know... I went with the rime meta magic feat and the -1 level meta magic trait, so I can hit someone with it to entangle, fatigue and deal 1d6+cl nonleathal damage. Nets them a -2str, -6dex, half speed and -2 to attack rolls, and you get 1 touch /level, enhancing your staying power even more if you're up against a lot of little guys rather than a single target you need to nuke, letting you save your SG.

Oh, and if you're just looking for "free" finesse, UC rogue might not be a bad option, get some trapfinding and sneak attack, at the cost of a BAB versus swash...


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks for all the feedback. It gives me quite a bit to think about.

Other than utilizing Arcane Mark to basically get Two Weapon Fighting (which I talked to my GM about tonight), I haven't figured out exactly what I'll be doing with this character. It is an experiment on my part.

Although I understand they can be quite powerful, I don't think I'll be going the Hex Crafter route. I have no doubt they can be effective, but it doesn't sound that fun. Since the bard in the group is a follower of Kurgess, it could also cause some unneeded drama there.


Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

...

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage.
...

I am curious what the argument against being able to use Spellstrike with Slashing Grace would be. I honestly can't think of a single rule that even suggest any incompatibility.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

...

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage.
...
I am curious what the argument against being able to use Spellstrike with Slashing Grace would be. I honestly can't think of a single rule that even suggest any incompatibility.

Are you familiar with the errata? I could see the final line being used as justification for disallowing it.


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BretI wrote:

Thanks for all the feedback. It gives me quite a bit to think about.

Other than utilizing Arcane Mark to basically get Two Weapon Fighting (which I talked to my GM about tonight), I haven't figured out exactly what I'll be doing with this character. It is an experiment on my part.

Although I understand they can be quite powerful, I don't think I'll be going the Hex Crafter route. I have no doubt they can be effective, but it doesn't sound that fun. Since the bard in the group is a follower of Kurgess, it could also cause some unneeded drama there.

A Kensai Magus can make an excellent Dex-based character. You get Weapon Focus for free at first level (despite having BAB +0) so a human can select Weapon Finesse and Fencing Grace to get Dex to hit and damage at first level. Here is a nice guide to the Kensai. It hasn't been udated since the errata for Slashing Grace, but otherwise it is quite good.


Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

...

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage.
...
I am curious what the argument against being able to use Spellstrike with Slashing Grace would be. I honestly can't think of a single rule that even suggest any incompatibility.
Are you familiar with the errata? I could see the final line being used as justification for disallowing it.

Yes I was very involved in the post-errata discussion, but I don't see how the last line applies. You are delivering a held charge through your weapon rather than your off hand. How is your off-hand occupied?

The Exchange

Bret - I think you missed out a +2 floating bonus from being half elf, that you did not add to your stats.

Don't mind me for saying this, I don't care for most dex based stuff, and if you really wanted to capitalize dex, you should start with dex 18 - otherwise you must as well go str based and have less feat tax (wep finesse, dex to dmg feats,I'm looking at you). And also, less rules argument with your GM on how dex to dmg feats work with funky magus abilities.

If you're looking at dex based, consider looking at fencing grace, slashing grace and dervish dance.I think fencing grace is better, as a rapier has a 18-20 crit range.

Magus do get medium and heavy armor proficiency later, and monstrous physique line favors strength over dex. Not to mention dex to dmg stuff limits your weapon choice, which may give problems when fighting creatures with DR.Not to mention carrying capacity, but I'm an unbashed packrat.

With half elf floating bonus - you could easily go -

16 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 10 wis, 14 int 10 cha.

With an AC point difference of 1 as compared to your above build.

And - a shocking grasp at lv 1 does 1d6. Colourspray is better. Unlike that squishy wizard, you aren't melee shy.

Also - magus, like all casters, should not dip.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Gisher wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

...

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage.
...
I am curious what the argument against being able to use Spellstrike with Slashing Grace would be. I honestly can't think of a single rule that even suggest any incompatibility.
Are you familiar with the errata? I could see the final line being used as justification for disallowing it.
Yes I was very involved in the post-errata discussion, but I don't see how the last line applies. You are delivering a held charge through your weapon rather than your off hand. How is your off-hand occupied?

Note that I'm not necessarily arguing for this, just feeling through the potential reasoning.

Rereading spell combat, it has some text about it working like two-weapon fighting. "This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast." Since Slashing Grace specifically calls out two-weapon fighting as incompatible, I can see why it might be disallowed.

I don't really have anything to add to that, so... give it some thought, I guess, and see if you understand why some might rule that way.

Liberty's Edge

Gisher wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

...

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage.
...
I am curious what the argument against being able to use Spellstrike with Slashing Grace would be. I honestly can't think of a single rule that even suggest any incompatibility.
Are you familiar with the errata? I could see the final line being used as justification for disallowing it.
Yes I was very involved in the post-errata discussion, but I don't see how the last line applies. You are delivering a held charge through your weapon rather than your off hand. How is your off-hand occupied?

Well, there is an FAQ that specifically states that the "otherwise occupied" bit does in fact apply to spell combat, so it just doesn't work. However it doesn't have to, since Fencing Grace works just fine.


Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

...

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage.
...
I am curious what the argument against being able to use Spellstrike with Slashing Grace would be. I honestly can't think of a single rule that even suggest any incompatibility.
Are you familiar with the errata? I could see the final line being used as justification for disallowing it.
Yes I was very involved in the post-errata discussion, but I don't see how the last line applies. You are delivering a held charge through your weapon rather than your off hand. How is your off-hand occupied?

Note that I'm not necessarily arguing for this, just feeling through the potential reasoning.

Rereading spell combat, it has some text about it working like two-weapon fighting. "This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast." Since Slashing Grace specifically calls out two-weapon fighting as incompatible, I can see why it might be disallowed.

I don't really have anything to add to that, so... give it some thought, I guess, and see if you understand why some might rule that way.

Yes, Spell Combat is definitely not compatible given this FAQ. But we were discussing Spellstrike which is a completely different ability.


Deighton Thrane wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Darksol the Painbringer wrote:

...

Taking the Slashing Grace feat (which normally could work) will not work with Spell Combat (and arguably Spellstrike), so if you plan to use Arcane Mark for extra attacks, you will need to find another way to get Dexterity to damage.
...
I am curious what the argument against being able to use Spellstrike with Slashing Grace would be. I honestly can't think of a single rule that even suggest any incompatibility.
Are you familiar with the errata? I could see the final line being used as justification for disallowing it.
Yes I was very involved in the post-errata discussion, but I don't see how the last line applies. You are delivering a held charge through your weapon rather than your off hand. How is your off-hand occupied?
Well, there is an FAQ that specifically states that the "otherwise occupied" bit does in fact apply to spell combat, so it just doesn't work. However it doesn't have to, since Fencing Grace works just fine.

See my post above. My question was about Spellstrike which is entirely different from Spell Combat.


The off hand is indeed occupied when you're casting the spell.

... but the delivery of the spell is another story. That's another action entirely. Granted by the spell, yes, but after all is said and done.


Johnny_Devo wrote:
The off hand is indeed occupied when you're casting the spell.
That isn't universally true. If I cast a spell with no somatic or material components then neither hand is occupied.

Silver Crusade Contributor

I misread your post! The names are so similar, and I just couldn't imagine that you were talking about spellstrike.

I have no idea why Slashing Grace and spellstrike would be incompatible, either.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Gisher wrote:
Johnny_Devo wrote:
The off hand is indeed occupied when you're casting the spell.
That isn't universally true. If I cast a spell with no somatic components then neither hand is occupied.

Spell combat might override that, due to its rather specific wording.

I'd probably allow it in my games, though - might be a good step towards a two-handed magus option.


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Kalindlara wrote:
I misread your post! The names are so similar, and I just couldn't realize that you were talking about spellstrike.

Yeah, the Spell Combat/Spellstrike confusion is probably only exceeded by the Race Trait/Racial Trait mix-ups. I'm glad we figured that out. :)

Kalindlara wrote:
I have no idea why Slashing Grace and spellstrike would be incompatible, either.

That was why I asked the question. I've never heard anyone suggest that Spellstrike without Spell Combat would cause issues with Slashing Grace.


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Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Johnny_Devo wrote:
The off hand is indeed occupied when you're casting the spell.
That isn't universally true. If I cast a spell with no somatic components then neither hand is occupied.

Spell combat might override that, due to its rather specific wording.

I'd probably allow it in my games, though - might be a good step towards a two-handed magus option.

Right. Just to clarify again - I am not talking about using Spell Combat. I am simply talking about casting a spell. The normal way. Like a Wizard would.

Spell Combat is entirely, utterly, absolutely incompatible with Slashing Grace and as I am considering situations where Slashing Grace can be used I have never mentioned using Spell Combat in any of my examples.

Maybe I should switch to a non-Magus example. If I have a 12th level Blade Adept Arcanist with Slashing Grace and the Spellstrike ability but without the Spell Combat ability I can't see any reason why he couldn't cast a spell and then use Spellstrike to deliver the attack while using Slashing Grace.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Gisher wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Johnny_Devo wrote:
The off hand is indeed occupied when you're casting the spell.
That isn't universally true. If I cast a spell with no somatic components then neither hand is occupied.

Spell combat might override that, due to its rather specific wording.

I'd probably allow it in my games, though - might be a good step towards a two-handed magus option.

Right. Just to clarify again - I am not talking about using Spell Combat. I am simply talking about casting a spell. The normal way. Like a Wizard would.

Sorry - I thought you meant a magus using spell combat with a Still Spell.


Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Kalindlara wrote:
Gisher wrote:
Johnny_Devo wrote:
The off hand is indeed occupied when you're casting the spell.
That isn't universally true. If I cast a spell with no somatic components then neither hand is occupied.

Spell combat might override that, due to its rather specific wording.

I'd probably allow it in my games, though - might be a good step towards a two-handed magus option.

Right. Just to clarify again - I am not talking about using Spell Combat. I am simply talking about casting a spell. The normal way. Like a Wizard would.
Sorry - I thought you meant a magus using spell combat with a Still Spell.

I think Johnny Devo may have made the same assumption.


Oh, no, I'm agreeing with you. It works.

What I'm saying is that it literally does not matter what hand is occupied by the casting of the spell for delivering it with spellstrike at the same time as benefitting from slashing grace, because the act of delivering the spell is an entirely different action. Granted by the casting of the spell, yes, but a free action activated separately, and thus your hand is unoccupied.

There is no reason that a character with slashing grace and spellstrike doesn't benefit from both.


Johnny_Devo wrote:

Oh, no, I'm agreeing with you. It works.

What I'm saying is that it literally does not matter what hand is occupied by the casting of the spell for delivering it with spellstrike at the same time as benefitting from slashing grace, because the act of delivering the spell is an entirely different action. Granted by the casting of the spell, yes, but a free action activated separately, and thus your hand is unoccupied.

There is no reason that a character with slashing grace and spellstrike doesn't benefit from both.

Slashing Grace wrote:
You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

The bolded part is where the argument lies.

It's your turn. You have your Scimitar drawn. You want to cast Shocking Grasp and deliver via Spellstrike. You need to have a hand free to cast Shocking Grasp as a Standard Action. (If you were adjacent to an enemy who can attack you, you would provoke an Attack of Opportunity.) Otherwise, you would have to drop your Scimitar.

Unless you're suggesting that the Standard Action (and the free hand being needed to cast the spell) does not constitute as the hand being occupied, whether with an item or to perform an action, then I don't see the feat functioning, especially if you subscribe to the idea that the hand is actively performing the Somatic components needed for casting the spell.

I did state that it was at leastcontestable, and is something that the OP should get clarified if he attempts to go down this route; it's also the reason why I suggested he go with the Dervish Dance feat, because Slashing Grace got errata'd to oblivion. Of course, Still Spell circumvents the need for a free hand, ergo he would maintain Slashing Grace benefits. He could also use a Buckler for AC and not have a problem with it, too, thanks to the FAQ.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Just a Mort wrote:
Bret - I think you missed out a +2 floating bonus from being half elf, that you did not add to your stats.

Looks right.

Full math:

Str 10 cost 0
Dex 16 cost 10
Con 14 cost 5
Int 14 +2 cost 5
Wis 10 cost 0
Cha 10 cost 0

Just a Mort wrote:

Don't mind me for saying this, I don't care for most dex based stuff, and if you really wanted to capitalize dex, you should start with dex 18 - otherwise you must as well go str based and have less feat tax (wep finesse, dex to dmg feats,I'm looking at you). And also, less rules argument with your GM on how dex to dmg feats work with funky magus abilities.

If you're looking at dex based, consider looking at fencing grace, slashing grace and dervish dance.I think fencing grace is better, as a rapier has a 18-20 crit range.

I generally favor Dex -- it is the type of characters that I like to run. I don't think there would be that much rules argument with this GM.

Since historically this GM has given above average amounts of treasure, I'm thinking that it would make more sense to buy the Agile property on weapons. Use gold instead of feats to get Dex to damage.

Quote:

Magus do get medium and heavy armor proficiency later, and monstrous physique line favors strength over dex. Not to mention dex to dmg stuff limits your weapon choice, which may give problems when fighting creatures with DR.Not to mention carrying capacity, but I'm an unbashed packrat.

With half elf floating bonus - you could easily go -

16 str, 14 dex, 14 con, 10 wis, 14 int 10 cha.

With an AC point difference of 1 as compared to your above build.

Wouldn't a 14 Int be too low for the Magus? I'm most likely going to be the only Int based character in the group, so they will be looking to me for spellcraft and such.

Quote:

And - a shocking grasp at lv 1 does 1d6. Colourspray is better. Unlike that squishy wizard, you aren't melee shy.

Also - magus, like all casters, should not dip.

As the primary arcane person in the group, I will not be dipping. Since the above post, I changed things around a little bit. This GM is allowing Fey Thoughts, so I got rid of Multi-talented and picked up Acrobatics and Perception via Fey Thoughts.

---

Regarding the Spell Combat / Spell Strike argument, as mentioned above for this campaign my solution will likely be Agile weapons. That way it works in Spell Combat, no questions.

Given the way that my dice hate me, I was planning to take Combat Casting at 3rd level. Shifting to a Strength based Magus would allow me to start with it, making that route tempting.

Since some of the discussion is about spells, here are the initial spells I have selected.

Spellbook:

All cantrips except Spark (note to self: figure out why Spark is left out)
Burning Hands
Corrosive Touch
Frostbite
Shield
Shocking Grasp
True Strike

It changed based on some of the comments here. I took out Blade Lash (save that for second level) and added Burning Hands.


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I've a question on the Dervish Dance feat with regards to Magus.

I know that they've prevented Slashing Grace from working with Spell Combat. I assume the same would apply to Fencer's Grace.

Have they done anything to prevent the Dervish Dance from working with Spell Combat? The way it is written, it should work. Rather than requiring a free hand it says you can't use it when carrying a weapon or shield in your off hand. Nothing that says the hand must be free.

The Exchange

About stats, sorry, miscalculation.

Slashing grace contains the following text:

You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or any time another hand is otherwise occupied.

Dervish dance and fencing grace do not. I believe the above text is what prevents you from doing spell combat.

Eh....APs are not magic mart, so what you want, and what you get can be 2 different stories.

There's s certain AP(won't mention name -its not ROTR), we spent the first book with literally no where to buy stuff.

Int based stuff - bards have 6 skill points per level. Wouldn't sweat it too much really. Not to mention quite some knowledge skills aren't on magus class list. So the bard would do a better job then you, anyway.

Maybe put the half elf skill focus into spellcraft for identifying items. But 1 point of int really wouldn't make much difference. If its a spell, you'll find out soon enough, anyway ;)

If you were hexcrafter, I would probably give int pirority over attack stat.

Spells - shocking grasp and corrosive touch serve the same purpose. Keep one, dish the other. I'll sound like a nag if I mention colourspray, but will, anyway.

Do you mind disclosing party composition so I can see if you might have to do crowd control, or you can fight like a traditional magus with shocking grasps and crits?


Correct, Dervish Dance will allow you to Spell Combat as per RAW. RAI, JJ would disagree, since he states that Dervish Dance and similar feats aren't supposed to "reward tricky thinking fighters," but quite frankly he's not a rules guy, and there's been no FAQ or Errata to alter it to his argument. (He also thinks Spikes on a Shield are separate from the Shield itself, even though the RAW strongly suggests otherwise.) So until they errata it to oblivion, you won't have a problem.

And to be honest, Slashing > Piercing, since the only things I know that possess Piercing DR are Oozes and Rakshasas. And unfortunately there are no 18-20/X2 Bludgeoning weapons. (It's awful weird, truthfully...)


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Alright, rather than collect the whole set I'll grab color spray. One advantage of color spray is it doesn't directly do any permanent harm.

Guess I'm going Dervish Dancer. Allows me to use other weapons when required yet allows Dex to Damage.

Just a Mort wrote:
Do you mind disclosing party composition so I can see if you might have to do crowd control, or you can fight like a traditional magus with shocking grasps snd crits?

There is already a thread with that.


Having a lot of int isn't actually super helpful for a magus. You are probably never going to cast a spell with a save dc, and a really high int does not give that many bonus spells for the investment you have to put into it.

Putting more focus into your combat stats, like con and dex, is probably the way you want to go imo

The Exchange

I failed my perception check ^^.

For cost estimate of an agile +1 wep will be 8000 gp, which is quite high, and may not be always available. Thus ways of getting your sthick to work, preferably before level 5...would be good.

The shaman, if he chooses can crowd control using slumber hex, but looking at the party composition, esp if Hmm is going alch, the 16 int of yours is going to be fairly important for crowd control.

Shamans don't have that good area of effects crowd affecting stuff, unless they have been poaching from wizard list(or selecting the right spirit), which requires a degree of system mastery.

Druid crowd control, IMO, is a little iffy, and tends to have to do with 40 ft radius entangles. Summoning creatures that grapple would probably be a better choice.


If your magus has to crowd control you did something wrong haha

The Exchange

Just because you can shocking grasp, does not mean you should. If you're fighting 3 dogs, a 1d6 shocking grasp might not kill one, but with proper positioning, a colourspray takes out all 3.

A lot of players seem not to understand that there's more then dealing massive amounts of DPR in pathfinder.

Sure you might not be the best class for it, but if you can do it better then the rest, then why not?

Example of not the best class for it stuff:

spoiler:

Locally I once played a PFS scenario, and my PFS locally is dominated by martial classes. They're all into adding the most number of bonuses to their weapons and armor. When it comes to PFS essentials, like acid flasks or alchemist fires, nada, zilch. So should I selfishly go, I'm a magus I should prepare only shocking grasps to maximise my DPR, or should I have packed some anti swarm contingency plans?
I chose to prep 1 slot of burning hands, and I have a pearl of power. And yes, we ran into a swarm that scenario. I also played in a 7-11 scenario that I was the only member in the party that could deal with swarms, because at that time, I already bought a swarmbane clasp.


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Alright then, looks like this is what I'll be going with.

Izzy, 1st level:

Iozzana a.k.a. Izzy
Female half-elf magus 1 (Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Magic 9)
N Medium humanoid (elf, human)
Init +3; Senses low-light vision; Perception +2
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 15, touch 13, flat-footed 12 (+2 armor, +3 Dex)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +2; +2 vs. enchantments
Immune sleep
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 30 ft.
Melee cold iron dagger +3 (1d4/19-20) or
. . cold iron kukri +3 (1d4/18-20) or
. . silver light mace +3 (1d6)
Special Attacks arcane pool (+1, 4 points), spell combat
Magus Spells Prepared (CL 1st; concentration +4)
. . 1st—color spray (DC 14), shield
. . 0 (at will)—arcane mark, detect magic, prestidigitation
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 10
Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 13
Feats Skill Focus (Acrobatics), Weapon Finesse
Traits acrobat, scholar of the ancients
Skills Acrobatics +11, Climb +0 (-2 instead of -5 penalty when using the Climb skill to attempt an accelerated climb), Knowledge (arcana) +8, Knowledge (history) +5, Knowledge (local) +4, Perception +2, Profession (sailor) +4, Spellcraft +7, Use Magic Device +4; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Elven, Goblin, Shoanti, Thassilonian, Varisian
SQ elf blood
Other Gear leather armor, cold iron dagger, cold iron kukri, silver light mace, bedroll, belt pouch, blotter (0.2 lb), inkpen, journal[UE], knife for cutting quills into pens (0.5 lb), masterwork backpack[APG], mess kit[UE], pen nibs, pigment for making ink (0.2 lb), ruler, small (0.1 lb), soap, spell component pouch, vial, wrist sheath, spring loaded, 21 gp, 6 sp, 9 cp
--------------------
Spellbook
--------------------
0: Acid Splash, Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Flare, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Spark
1: Burning Hands, Color Spray, Frostbite, Shield, Shocking Grasp, True Strike
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
Acrobat When doing an accelerated climb, penalty is reduced to -2.
Arcane Pool +1 (4/day) (Su) Infuse own power into a held weapon, granting enhancement bonus or selected item powers.
Elf Blood Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Elven Immunities - Sleep You are immune to magic sleep effects.
Low-Light Vision See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
Spell Combat (Ex) Use a weapon with one hand at -2 and cast a spell with the other.
--------------------
Varisian born in Roderic’s Cove. Grew up there, learned to sail.

The first time she sailed into Riddleport she was astounded by the Cyphergate. Since then she has had a keen interest in any Thassilonian ruins. She stayed in Riddleport as an apprentice to one of the wizards so that she could learn magic and more about the ruins.

After she decided her training was done, she went back to sailing for a while.

She came to Sandpoint as part of a crew sailing to Magnimar. She arranged to leave the ship in Sandpoint so she could enjoy the festival and hopefully learn more about the ruins there.
--------------------

Learn to dance and take Dervish Dance at 3rd level. Pick up a masterwork scimitar before then.
Increase Dex when leveling, depend on items to get a better Int.
I'm selecting the 1/4 Arcane Pool for the FCB.

I'll see how well this plays out.

Thanks everyone for the advice, even if I didn't take all of it.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

With a 16 int, you can do crowd control just fine. Indeed, I see you've already picked up Color Spray, which is a good spell for this purpose. As level two spells, you can add such gems as Web, Glitterdust, and/or Euphoric Cloud - then in the same turn, five-step up and start slashing.


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Level 4 for 2nd level spells, although Web Bolt at 1st could be interesting.


Hey Bret, just a few suggestions:

If you have the points, a 16 Int is a great place to start. Without putting any points into it, you'll be able to get a +6 headband and get a bonus spell for every level you get, as well has keep your DC's useful. But if you are going to focus on melee combat, dropping this to 14 will not hurt you, especially if you are focusing on Arcane Mark and Shocking Grasp (which has no saving throw, by the way).

Starting with an 18 dex will get you +1 to hit, +1 to damage, +1 to AC and Reflex saves, +1 to initiative and so forth.

Starting with 14 Int over 16 Int will give you +1 to the DC of your spell, and one more skill point and arcane pool point.

The way you have it is nice and balanced, but don't expect to be thoroughly good at either casting or melee, but a good support character in both. If you are thinking you want to be primarily a melee character, then focus on Dex. If you are thinking you'll primarily be a casting character, then... pick a wizard with a sword as your bonded item :P. From your focus on Acrobatics, I'm guessing you actually want to be more of a Combat Focused Magus, so my recommendation is to actually go with the 18 dex to start.

Color Spray is great for level 1, so so for level 2-3 and worthless past that. Getting into Shocking grasp at level 2 or 3 is pretty much a no brainer. Don't change your build or make permanent decisions for something you're going to use for just a couple sessions. Also, grab some scrolls and wands as soon as possible. A 2nd level Shocking Grasp wand will be a great option for holding the charge when you know a fight is coming. A 2nd level Burning hands wand is great for swarms, and sometimes just the right situation. Wands are able to be drawn like weapons now, so after first level you can do it as long as you move 10 feet.

For a seafaring Magus, just as an option, you could take the ancestral arms racial trait and pick up a net. Touch AC to entangle, and if you take the feat Net Adept it turns into a one handed reach weapon that you can actually spellstrike with. Always wanted to try it.

I don't think you need to shore up your will save, since it will be better than pretty much any other melee class because it's a good save for the Magus. That's why I don't mind dumping Wisdom for extra points.

Other than that, every thing looks good. A magus is a decently strong class, you should be able to make it work regardless of your choices.


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Strangely enough, this character will be primary melee and primary caster in the group. The only other arcane people in the group are an alchemist and a bard.

The alchemist is the other primary melee character. That one is planning to make use of mutagens for the combat boost.

The bard will not always be there.

Yeah, not exactly an ideal mix, especially when the Player's Guide specifically mentions "Access to powerful magic at higher levels could be the key to survival, not just for the PCs, but also the entire world!"

The net option sounds interesting, but can't come online until 3rd level because of the BAB requirement for Net Adept. Think I'll stick with a more traditional approach for this Magus, but the idea is intriguing. I will keep it in mind should I do another Magus.

Thanks for reviewing the character!


If you have room later on for feats like Combat Expertise, Gang Up, Outflank and purchase menacing weapons, you can really crank your to hit nice and high. If you're alchemist buddy uses a high crit weapon, like a pick or scythe, Butterfly's Sting will help them dish out some major damage, especially if they are two handed and strength based.

The fact that at least two of you are Int based means you should be okay for story plots, at least from memory. I'm in a group that's in the last part of RotR that currently has a gnome monk (that's mine), a dwarven Destined sorcerer (reincarnated from elf), a Tower Shield Fighter (her druid died) and a human Undead Sorcerer. The last sorcerer has Leadership, and a goblin cleric of Nethys cohort.(reincarnated from human). Oh, and a Bard/Rogue Arcane Trickster we use as a Heroism Wand when he's not around. We're doing okay, and now that we're actually up to the end, I think we'll be able to win. Hard to say though. Some parts were really touch and go.

Since you have the alchemist and a Bard, you should be fine on arcane power and Arcana Knowledge. If one of them picks up a few slots in Linguistics, that's a good idea. Hopefully the Bard will grab a Other than that, you should be fine. Just make the character you want.


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Thanks for the feedback.

The feat at 3rd level will be Dervish Dancing. The bonus to damage is too nice to pass up.

I had to look the feats up.

Butterfly's Sting requires Combat Expertise and that you worship Desna. I hadn't picked a god, so this one is a real possibility. As a Magus, I'm going to have a good crit range and if I don't have a spell loaded it can make sense to pass the crit off. I see no problems in character background with being a follower of Desna. Seems reasonable for a Varisian sailor.

I could get this at 5th level with my bonus feat and regular feat. At that level I could be generating critical hits 25% of the time.

Outflank is a teamwork feat. I can see how this would make a huge difference for anyone with sneak attack damage. It can be nice for others. Only works if we co-ordinate builds, but can be a huge boost for the Ninja or if the Alchemist goes Vivisectionist.
Combat Expertise -> Gang Up makes it much easier to get flank (with the bonus to hit) against a creature. This is something that the Ninja should take. I'll mention it to his player. We will have to see how the group works in combat. Since it requires three people threatening the same target that may be difficult.

I was looking at Arcane Strike -> Riving Strike as a possibility. The problem being that a lot of the Magus stuff also wants a swift or immediate action.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Arcane Strike / Riving Strike doesn't work for a Magus, precisely for the reason you already mention.

Butterfly's Sting, well, one of the appeals of playing a Magus is doing massive damage by critting with a spell (or a massive debuff by critting with Frigid Touch) and the butterfly feat negates that.

The Magus in general has no problems with accuracy, but bear in mind that getting +1 to hit all the time (i.e. Weapon Focus) is better than spending two feats on getting +2 some of the time (i.e. Gang Up). Outflank is a good choice though.

Here's some other feats to consider.


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Sorry, your link isn't working for me Kurald Galain.

Silver Crusade Contributor

Try it from here, but do it fast - Paizo's site is corrupting the link. This happens on occasion.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thanks, that worked and allowed me to find his guide.

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