My players are currently running through Rise of the Runelords, and should be done within the next few months. I am planning after this adventure to run Age of Worms, which will be a "sequel" to RotRL (several NPCs the players let live will make appearances, decisions the players made will affect this world, and the players' previous characters may make cameos). I already have found several very helpful Pathfinder Conversions for the AoW monters and characters, and I already have several plot conversions to fit the world of Golarion. However, I need a little advice.
I only have 3 players. To counter this, I decided to make them gestalt. I have read a few threads on playing AoW with gestalt characters, but that was in 3.5, and I haven't found a thread on playing a Pathfinder gestalt game. I also know what my players shall be playing, it is as follows:
Human Magus/Unchained Scout Rogue
Full Orc Unchained Barbarian/Sorcerer/eventually Dragon Disciple
Duergar Unchained Scout/Sniper Rogue/Fighter
At this point, all I'm looking for is any helpful advice, tips, and opinions. Any help to make sure this game is tough but not impossible is all I need. Even a link to an existing post about gestalt Pathfinder characters in AoW would be nice. I appreciate any input.
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Due to how it starts. No Orc, Duergar or monsters race should be allowed. You can alter it if you chose to but you will have to buy pass the first part of the story. Along with at least one other part to make any monsters races fit.
The current class combos work. However the current set up is way to light on healing. I ran a large party (7 Players) through the first half. They got TPK at level 12-13. Due to lack of healing.
My best suggestion for surviving. I will list only the classes as any race can work. The list is from my personal first choice to last choice.
Slot 1 Divine Caster: Cleric/Monk, or Druid/Monk, or Inquisitor/Monk
Slot 2 Front Line Melee: Paladin/Unchained Summoner, or Paladin/Magus (Eldritch Scion) or Paladin/Oracle
Slot 3 Skills/Secondary Melee: Unchained Rogue/Bard, or Unchained Rogue/Unchained Summoner, or Unchained Rogue/Magus
Due to how it starts. No Orc, Duergar or monsters race should be allowed. You can alter it if you chose to but you will have to buy pass the first part of the story. Along with at least one other part to make any monsters races fit.
Diamond Lake features a quaggoth, a boggle, and a half-ogre as residents. Though they were part of a freakshow, they still live here even after their proprietor left. As long as my players have a reason to be stuck here as a weird race (I always go through with each of my players to help create a good backstory that works and is fun), then it should work out. I also made it so any "uncommon" races from ARG is 20 point buy instead of 25, so it balances out for the Duergar.
Besides, having a orc living in a town with a garrison that hates orcs is ripe with RP value, and in itself is a great reason to get the hell out of Dodge.
Besides that, for now there is no way I can get any of my players to play an actual healing class, and I'm pretty much stuck with the character builds I said. The Magus has said he will pump the hell out of UMD to be able to use divine spell wands and such, so he's the best healer they're gunna get.
With that in mind, what point in the AP do you think they will most likely die? I've played through this adventure up to the Champion's Belt, but this was with 3.5 rules except for the addition of Combat Maneuvers, so my personal experiences in the game aren't the best reference vs Pathfinder characters, and gestalt on top of that.
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The first time they encounter the worms. Basically the heavy stat damage and no way to retreat out will kill them.
Edit: along with the no way to remove the stat damage. Even if you give them a wand early. It's more then likely they will sell it. As the level they need it. 4,200 gold is the total value of the party's gold.
AoW is insanely difficult. You definitely need a primary healer for sure, and a paladin mix smiter/damage dealer with its resistances would be nice as well, as calagnar said. I think either a Druid or summoner type mix would be a good third member as having a pet or eidolon would be very helpful. Getting through it with three party members might be too much to ask, however, to be honest.
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When making characters for small party. The players really need to make sure they have every thing covered. I'm in a two player giant slayer AP. We both built characters making tactical choices in ability's. We did not use any kind of special gestalt. We are using a higher point buy then normal 20 vs. normal 15. So unless your players can build characters to make a team. I don't see them making it through the deadliest adventure path.
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Yeah, the biggest advantage of gestalt for small parties is that it lets you make sure all the important roles are filled. Your group really dropped the ball there. Are you sure you can't convince them to adjust the characters at all? It wouldn't take a significant change to their concepts.
The Magus//Rogue could switch to Magus//Alchemist (Vivisectionist) or Magus//Investigator. The former gives sneak attack, while the latter gives skills and a fantastic melee buff from studied combat. Either adds some healing and buffs through extracts, and the character still has all good saves. Thematically still a sneaky magical person.
The Dragon Disciple could try Draconic Bloodrager//Oracle. The Draconic Bloodrager is basically the non-gestalt version of his concept, and the oracle adds healing and buffs, plus fatigue immunity through the lame curse. The mystery can add simple combat power (Battle) or elemental ablities to complement the dragon type selected (Flame, Wind, Winter, Volcano). Thematically the oracular powers could derive from a spiritual connection to some draconic patron or force.
The Rogue//Fighter could try Inquisitor(Sanctified Slayer)//Fighter. Still gets Sneak Attack (albeit at a slower progression), a few rogue talents, and lots of skills. Adds healing, self-buffs, and utility spells, and makes good use of the racial +2 Wis. Studied Target also provides a more reliable at-range damage boost than sneak attack. Thematically a sneaky hunter with a little magic that could be derived from a philosophy (eg self reliance) rather than a deity.
Yeah, the biggest advantage of gestalt for small parties is that it lets you make sure all the important roles are filled. Your group really dropped the ball there. Are you sure you can't convince them to adjust the characters at all? It wouldn't take a significant change to their concepts.
Trust me, I've tried, and they really want to play these characters as is for now. The Rogue Fighter always plays a martial class of some sort, and the other two in my current RotRL games are the wizard and cleric right now, and I think they're just experiencing "full caster fatigue." This is the first time any of them have been in a higher level game (they're currently lvl 12), and I think they feel it's too much work to do it again. They're also not the best at being a caster, loooots of missed oppurtunities when it comes to spell selection.
At this point, I have 4 options I feel rectify this somewhat.
1) Create a gestalt or even standard NPC healer to follow the characters around, but I honestly don't know exactly how they would "use" that character. None of them have a problem with NPC's doing dirty work if it helps themselves in the end, and at higher levels that becomes a little more of a pain in the ass, but I can manage if I must.
2) Find another player, but that's slim pickins here in Idaho. Also, it would remove the reason for Gestalt, which my players are actually fairly excited for.
3) Allow for researched spells, and allow the magus to spend time to research arcane versions of healing spells, (probably after the fight with Fildge, he had a syringe of CLW and False Life he seemed to have made, so if this necro guy can do it, I'm sure a player can).
4) Wait for a member of the party to die, and see if they'll realize what the party is lacking and support appropriately.
I would heartily discourage having an NPC follow them around is the worst possible solution. A few options:
TELL your players that they'll be fighting undead. You currently have two sneak attack reliant characters. I know this might ruin the "surprise" a little, but trust me, they'll thank you for it later.
If they're set on not changing classes, it'll be ok for a while. The ability damage doesn't really ramp up till they first encounter the spawn.
One of the posters mentioned that giving them a wand with restoration is broken, because of the gold they'd get for it. Here's a sneaky workaround! Instead of giving them a Cleric wand with level 2 lesser restoration, worth 4,200 gold, give them a paladin wand of lesser restoration which is only worth 750 gold!
By that time they'll have hit level 6, give encourage one of them to take leadership to acquire a cohort (not sure if leadership is still in pathfinder, but still)
I would heartily discourage having an NPC follow them around is the worst possible solution. A few options:
TELL your players that they'll be fighting undead. You currently have two sneak attack reliant characters. I know this might ruin the "surprise" a little, but trust me, they'll thank you for it later.
If they're set on not changing classes, it'll be ok for a while. The ability damage doesn't really ramp up till they first encounter the spawn.
One of the posters mentioned that giving them a wand with restoration is broken, because of the gold they'd get for it. Here's a sneaky workaround! Instead of giving them a Cleric wand with level 2 lesser restoration, worth 4,200 gold, give them a paladin wand of lesser restoration which is only worth 750 gold!
In Pathfinder, undead aren't immune to sneak attack, so they'll be fine there. The Paladin wand ain't a bad idea, but I'm leaning towards throwing in an NPC with them still. However, instead of making a full blown Cleric or something of the sort, I've been thinking of a gestalt NPC Adept/Warrior with a slightly modified spell list, and basically make it a heal totem character. Because it's NPC classes, non of the other players would expect that character to do anything except keep them alive.
Didn't realize that about pathfinder. I'd still suggest telling the players that there's a lot of undead.
My party has a bard/warmage and that's the only healing, so I've done a larger rework, stealing some ideas from other games for healing. I gave pcs a hit point bonus equal to their constitution at level one, and they get to roll their hit dice + con modifier with a short rest.
Something about the way you said "totem" gave me an idea! Give them a figurine of wonderous power with healing and buffs with a limited access (a few minutes at first level) per day, and it has to sleep for a week if it dies. An NPC healer becomes another body, something else for you control. if you make him too weak the players will have to defend him, or worse, you ignore him in combat and break verisimilitude.
I'm not sure the party's alignment, but give them a unicorn figurine of wonderous power which is also a level 1 cleric. Load it up with buff spells, and give him to players to use however they want. Takes the healing out of your hands, gives the players a healbot which is good between encounters. Further, if they bring the unicorn into combat it will be in their hands, they'll do the rolling and so on.
To me, the condition removal spells of the primary divine caster are much more important than just healing, particularly in this AP. I haven't read it in a good long while, but Remove Disease, Remove Curse, etc. are essential to succeeding at mid to high levels.