Mineral Water |
3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Occult adventures page 125 says:
"True Thought-Form (Sp): At 20th level, you can shed
the restrictions of the flesh and become a thought form — a being that exists independently of its substance.
Whenever a creature would kill you, you can attempt to
use mind swap* against that creature as an immediate
action just before dying."
it should instead say:
"True Thought-Form (Sp): At 20th level, you can shed
the restrictions of the flesh and become a thought form — a being that exists independently of its substance.
Whenever a creature would kill you, you can attempt to
use major mind swap* against that creature as an immediate
action just before dying."
Since using Mind Swap just before death seems kind of pointless..
CampinCarl9127 |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Since using Mind Swap just before death seems kind of pointless..
Wow. Did you actually read what mind swap does? It gives your hour/level of possession of the creature. Not only does that keep you in the fight and turn an enemy, it also gives you 20 hours to get yourself resurrected.
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it needs an errata. Moving on.
Alexander Augunas Contributor |
CampinCarl9127 |
5 people marked this as a favorite. |
CampinCarl9127 wrote:....it also gives you 20 hours to get yourself resurrected.You mean by using all those Raise Dead and Resurrection spells Sorcerers get? :D
Yes, moving on...
Yes, because there is no possible way that a level 20 character could ever find a 9th level cleric to help him.
Your minion's minions could resurrect you at this point.
FiddlersGreen |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Perhaps by using that teleport/greater teleport/interplanetary teleport spell that sorcerers get to go to a temple.
Or better yet, summon a Ghaele Azata, who comes with a raise dead AND a restoration prepared.
If you hit level 20 and can't work out ways to get yourself raised easily... you're definitely doing it wrong.
Mineral Water |
Perhaps by using that teleport/greater teleport/interplanetary teleport spell that sorcerers get to go to a temple.
Or better yet, summon a Ghaele Azata, who comes with a raise dead AND a restoration prepared.
If you hit level 20 and can't work out ways to get yourself raised easily... you're definitely doing it wrong.
Please read Summon Monster:
Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).
I would say that 5000gp qualifies as expensive.
CampinCarl9127 |
4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Azten wrote:You're twentieth level. Someone in the part is going to be to bring you back. Like yourself. Limited Wish or Wish for Raise Dead.You just burned 5,000 + 1,500 or 5,000 + 25,000 gp on a single spell... congratulations?
You're too cheap to pay for your own ressurection. Now you're dead. Congratulations?
Valantrix1 |
Azten wrote:You're twentieth level. Someone in the part is going to be to bring you back. Like yourself. Limited Wish or Wish for Raise Dead.You just burned 5,000 + 1,500 or 5,000 + 25,000 gp on a single spell... congratulations?
Nobody ever said being an adventurer was cheap or easy, so I don't see your point. If you don't have a few grand laying around at 20th level, you didn't think ahead, did you?
Mineral Water |
Mineral Water wrote:Nobody ever said being an adventurer was cheap or easy, so I don't see your point. If you don't have a few grand laying around at 20th level, you didn't think ahead, did you?Azten wrote:You're twentieth level. Someone in the part is going to be to bring you back. Like yourself. Limited Wish or Wish for Raise Dead.You just burned 5,000 + 1,500 or 5,000 + 25,000 gp on a single spell... congratulations?
I guess Paizo got it right... the only this the forgot to add is this following item - Amulet of automatic application of True Resurrection, which costs mere: 9 (spell level) * 18 (Caster level) * 2,000 (Use activated - death) + 100 * 25,000 = 2,824,000 gp
Now, I know Amulet of automatic application of Raise Dead would be satisfactory for some of you, but who doesn't have 3M gold just laying around, am I right?My Self |
Why would you buy that item at CL 18?
It would cost literally just as much to make an item of use-activated wish, which could be used to create a Contingent Raise Dead, Breath of Life, or Heal. Or a use-activated Time Stop effect, for the lulz.
That aside, most people don't get to the level where their capstone ability actually comes into play. The people who do reach that level are expected (but not required) to reach that level with a party. If you somehow get to 20th level without any money or a 9th level or higher divine caster in your party, congratulate yourself on a job well done. Literally every divine casting class except Ranger and Antipaladin have a way to resurrect the dead. So assuming you managed to completely avoid divine casters, you still have access to Wish and Limited Wish, which you can use to duplicate resurrection abilities. And even then, if that fails, you can go and get yourself killed again to trigger your ability and possess another person.
Also, you're a 20th level arcane caster. Why are you dying and not breaking the world in half?
FiddlersGreen |
FiddlersGreen wrote:Perhaps by using that teleport/greater teleport/interplanetary teleport spell that sorcerers get to go to a temple.
Or better yet, summon a Ghaele Azata, who comes with a raise dead AND a restoration prepared.
If you hit level 20 and can't work out ways to get yourself raised easily... you're definitely doing it wrong.
Please read Summon Monster:
Quote:Creatures summoned using this spell cannot use spells or spell-like abilities that duplicate spells with expensive material components (such as wish).I would say that 5000gp qualifies as expensive.
I am well aware that you will need to provide the 5000gp component. I kinda assumed you would, since, you know, you are level 20 and are paying to negate death here.
But even if you are that cheap that 5000gp to negate death at level 20 is considered too expensive, what you can do is get a cracked vibrant purple prism ioun stone (2000 gp, and reusable so I hope that's not too steep?), store a blood money spell in it, then cast contingent action on the Ghaele Azata (trigger=cast raise dead,contingent action=use ioun stone) and have the Ghaele do 11 points of STR damage to itself in the process. Ghaeles are big boys. I think they can handle the STR damage, and if not, they can cast restoration on themselves.
In the last PFS scenario I played, my mate's wizard raised a fellow party member for free. He was level 11, but it was somehthing he had been able to do since level 9 (clever use of an archetype ability was involved, but still). So yeah, once again, if you hit level 20 as a single-classed primary caster and can't work out ways to get yourself raised easily... you're definitely doing it wrong.
Mineral Water |
I am well aware that you will need to provide the 5000gp component. I kinda assumed you would, since, you know, you are level 20 and are paying to negate death here.But even if you are that cheap that 5000gp to negate death at level 20 is considered too expensive, what you can do is get a cracked vibrant purple prism ioun stone (2000 gp, and reusable so I hope that's not too steep?), store a blood money spell in it, then cast contingent action on the Ghaele Azata (trigger=cast raise dead,contingent action=use ioun stone) and have the Ghaele do 11 points of STR damage to itself in the process. Ghaeles are big boys. I think they can handle the STR damage, and if not, they can cast restoration on themselves.
In the last PFS scenario I played, my mate's wizard raised a fellow party member for free. He was level 11, but it was somehthing he had been able to do since level 9 (clever use of an archetype ability was involved, but still). So yeah, once again, if you hit level 20 as a single-classed primary caster and can't work out ways to get yourself raised easily... you're definitely doing it wrong.
How the heck did you get Ghaele Azata without paying for it which can cast Raise Dead? The one from Summon Monster IX cannot...
Also you seem to be completely fine with level 20 character effectively abusing divine beings and somehow not okay with stealing bodies of his enemies, at relative close rage and of his own race... I think my way would make for much interesting story than yours.
FiddlersGreen |
1. My mate did not use a ghaele azata to achieve it. I'm just saying that a resourceful caster can achieve free resurrections even from level 9.
2. I don't see it as abuse. It's getting a divine being to help out. How often are you planning on dying?
3. In any event, as has been mentioned before, you are asking for a straight buff to a bloodline, not an errata. think this thread has run its course. Case closed.
Kaouse |
Everything on the Summon Monster List is also on the Planar Ally/Planar Binding list. And anything called via either of those spells, can use any and all of their abilities without restriction.
Other means exist of course. The aforementioned "Blood Money" spell combined with Wish can get you pretty much anything you want. The STR damage can even be negated via "Heal" which is something Summoned Monsters can use.
Not that dying matters much to an arcane caster with Astral Projection, Clone, Simulacrum and any other way to laugh at death.
Claxon |
Now, that was much better than arguing or saying mean things.
But regardless of such a restriction in summon monster (I don't play anything with more than 4th level spell casting) you can still get around it with gate or other spells.
And the whole point of it was to demonstrate the plethora of ways in which you could get around the problem of the spell effect ending and your death, several hours after you take over the creature's body.
Mineral Water |
Now, that was much better than arguing or saying mean things.
But regardless of such a restriction in summon monster (I don't play anything with more than 4th level spell casting) you can still get around it with gate or other spells.
And the whole point of it was to demonstrate the plethora of ways in which you could get around the problem of the spell effect ending and your death, several hours after you take over the creature's body.
...sigh, read the 9th post in this forum.
Entryhazard |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |
He's conflating the rule againt SLA's of effects that have expensive material components with actual spellcasting.
The aforementioned Azata has cleric spells and can pay the normal component [or Strength Score Point via Blood Money] in order to cast them.
Actually that bolded explicitly says Spells in it
Serisan |
Here's the counterargument you're looking for, Mineral Water:
You kill my body, but I Mind Swap as an immediate action. I wait a round next to my corpse (or finish the combat, whatever). Now, I cast Blood Money -> Wish to Resurrect myself. I'm not concerned about the str damage because I can cast while paralyzed anyway. As soon as my next turn comes up, I dismiss the Mind Swap.
Mineral Water |
Let's see Blood money:Here's the counterargument you're looking for, Mineral Water:
You kill my body, but I Mind Swap as an immediate action. I wait a round next to my corpse (or finish the combat, whatever). Now, I cast Blood Money -> Wish to Resurrect myself. I'm not concerned about the str damage because I can cast while paralyzed anyway. As soon as my next turn comes up, I dismiss the Mind Swap.
Blood Money
School transmutation; Level magus 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, witch 1
CASTINGCasting Time 1 swift action
Components V, S
EFFECTRange 0 ft.
Effect 1 material component
Duration InstantaneousDESCRIPTION
You cast blood money just before casting another spell. As part of this spell's casting, you must cut one of your hands, releasing a stream of blood that causes you to take 1d6 points of damage. When you cast another spell in that same round, your blood transforms into one material component of your choice required by that second spell. Even valuable components worth more than 1 gp can be created, but creating such material components requires an additional cost of 1 point of Strength damage, plus a further point of damage for every full 500 gp of the component's value (so a component worth 500–999 gp costs a total of 2 points, 1,000–1,500 costs 3, etc.). You cannot create magic items with blood money.
For example, a sorcerer with the spell stoneskin prepared could cast blood money to create the 250 gp worth of diamond dust required by that spell, taking 1d6 points of damage and 1 point of Strength damage in the process.
Material components created by blood money transform back into blood at the end of the round if they have not been used as a material component. Spellcasters who do not have blood cannot cast blood money, and those who are immune to Strength damage (such as undead spellcasters) cannot use blood money to create valuable material components.
So that is (25,000 / 500)+1 = 51 points of strength damage and you need at least one point of strength to be conscious... Could you please explain me, how come all of you Sorcerers have 52 points of Strength? I must be playing this game wrong.
Serisan |
This is what I get for not re-reading the strength entry - I thought it was paralyzed, not unconscious.
You don't worry much about the strength damage because you're inflicting it to the new body. You can instead Limited Wish for a paulty 4 strength damage to get Raise Dead. You might even consider doing some bad things to the host body in the meantime.